Parents of the HS Class of 2009 (Part 1)

<p>Great article. I have told my own D that while the decision is hers and her presumed H, I suggest that she never, ever stop working. I went back to work right after S was born but took off a couple of years when D came along. Went back when D was 2 and then had to leave again when we moved to the UK. I have only recently come to the realization that it is not only the actual $$ that you don’t make but it is also your potential earning power that is affected by being SAHM. In other words, the money I paid the daycare center - although practically my entire paycheck - was actually an investment in maintaining my earning power. I just didn’t see it at the time.</p>

<p>eddieO - Have a great time at VA beach! D will have other interviews coming up shortly - same for rochmom D and c_q D - I just know it!</p>

<p>I should have worked. And for all the same reason Woody outlined. It’s an investment in yourself. However, I don’t think parenting should be abdicated to others either, which is more or less what full time day care is to some extent and I enjoyed being a mom. And quite honestly, i feel I did a lot of working mom’s a favor by always being available for the stuff school wants you to volunteer for. I just wish there was a chart or something that pointed out that we still have “worth.” </p>

<p>A friend of mine is getting a divorce after 20 years, 16 of it as a stay at home Mom. Without her NOT working and being flexible her H would have never climbed the corporate ladder as well. And let’s say she had died when their son was small… how much would he have paid for child care (live in Nanny, cleaning etc) had she not been there? They are expats and now he makes an incredibly good living and gives her absolutely no credit for his success (which of course translates to he’s giving her no money except what he absolutely is forced to by the court and is bitter about even that!). It’s disappointing.</p>

<p>Son-in-law has still not heard from his mega-interview, but they did their own version of Yard crashers this weekend for my sister as a form of “Rent” by cutting down some ugly brush behind my sisters house, power washing, painting a fence (Tom Sawyer-esque) and planting some pots. They had a good time doing it and it doesn’t hurt that SIL is 6’7" and can reach to heights my 5’ 8" Brother in law could never hope to. SIL’s reach is truly amazing to behold.</p>

<p>S is to come this week and take D home at some point. THis week however is all about Turkey (the country) and next week is health Care, which I know he would love. Wish H would have just let me fly D home vs this plan he hatched which has him golfing instead of being here with his family. Oops… is my bitterness peeking out?</p>

<p>EO, sorry about the job. She may need to sub to get an “in”. </p>

<p>RM, what a creative gift idea and what a heck of a lot of work. I certainly hope it will be greatly appreciated for years to come.</p>

<p>How is younger D? Strep. This was Tax Free Weekend - she tried to call in sick from her retail job yesterday (with a 102 degree temp) but they wouldn’t let her. She worked in the back and they sent her home after 3 hours, thank goodness. H was able to get her into the PA already this morning and now she’s on antibiotics. </p>

<p>…Which is why I haven’t read the NY Times article yet. I love love love to sit by the pool and read the NYT Magazine on Sunday afternoons and if I don’t finish during pool time, recline on the couch to finish. But yesterday I had to drive feverish D to work, pick her up, go get her vegetarian pho, go get her a smoothie, etc.</p>

<p>I wish I wasn’t at home at the moment! Have been washing/drying/folding sheets, towels, blankets, etc to get ready to take to the lake house (if they ever finish!). I purged all of the old tiny towels that my in laws had there. They must have been over 30 yrs old and barely bigger than a hand towel! Argued with the well guy this weekend and made him move where he had set up to drill. It was right in the middle of the only flat part of the lot that I want to landscape. Of course that was the easiest area for him. Good thing I wouldn’t approve of him starting until I was on site. Unfortunately I think my
furniture budget is now depleted due to the new well. :(</p>

<p>Eddie, I hope you’re having a good time at the beach. Interview practice is a good thing! </p>

<p>I am sorry you haven’t been able to enjoy the cabin more this summer, NM. Maybe some fall weekends would be nice? </p>

<p>RM, that sounds like a lovely shower and the handwork you did - absolutely incredible! Well beyond my limited skills. </p>

<p>MP, hope your D is feeling better and that you’re not running yourself into the ground. </p>

<p>I had read the Times article and then D pointed it out to me as well. I agree with FallGirl’s assessment that it really seemed to target spouses who both had high powered careers. Every family has to do what works best for them. Maybe my skin is getting a little thin, but I have a hard time when people are judged for the choices they’ve made in the past and how it’s impacted their current/future. Should have, could have…water under the bridge.</p>

<p>Moda, if your friend’s contributions to the marriage aren’t being valued appropriately, she needs a new attorney! I’ve seen so many divorce settlements that include those very figures - what would it have cost for that nanny, housekeeping, meal preparation, social secretary, etc. etc. etc.?</p>

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<p>Sounds like the “plot twist” on all those HGTV shows. I so wish you had been able to enjoy the cabin all summer, but it sounds like it will be fabulous when it’s done.</p>

<p>Yes, Odessagirl has applied to sub in two neighboring counties. Our own county does not have the sub info on-line yet. She actually went into the Board of Ed last week to ask about it.</p>

<p>Change of subject - I was on the elevator here at our timeshare yesterday. One fella asked another if he was staying the whole week. The answer was “No, I am going home Wednesday because I am HOMELY”. The other guy answered, “Yeah, I’m a homebody, too.” Cracked me up inside. I guess all of the homely people leave on Wednesday and the beautiful stay until Saturday.</p>

<p>Eddie, there was a guy who spoke in church yesterday - the head of some committee or another - he is the CEO of a pretty darned large corporatation. In his 5 minute talk, he mispronounced a word twice, and misused two other words. He must be a financial wizard or something because his verbal skills were terrible. (Note: I would not criticize the normal church member, but when about the only thing in his introduction was his exalted professional position, I feel a bit justified.)</p>

<p>I have a file on Shutterfly with the DIY wedding stuff…PM me if you want the link. It’s more focused on the projects than the festivities, and we don’t have any of the photographers’ pics yet, but I’ll update when we get more/better pics.</p>

<p>My take on the career issue is that there is no ideal solution, so what is the point of second-guessing our choices. We all do the best that we can with the hand that we are dealt.</p>

<p>Two high-powered careers requires a lot of high-powered, expensive help that is a pain in the neck to manage even when money is not an issue. Our kids never minded the live-in nannies, but it had plenty of drawbacks for H and me. It was exhausting and not fun. The couples I know with a full-time or part-time SAH spouse and one high-powered earner seem to have a pretty good lifestyle as long as the couple stay married. The non-working or part-time working spouse, however, is at risk of a severe deterioration in their standard of living after a divorce. With a good lawyer, that may not happen. But, the risk is certainly there.</p>

<p>Re: careers: I was home three years (two kids in 15 months plus reloc) and then went back as economic preservation. Didn’t clear any profit til the kids hit kindergarten, but it kept a foot in the door. We also got high-value life insurance for me when I was a SAHM because of the replacement costs involved if I wasn’t around…and it’s a good thing still have that policy since I am now uninsurable.</p>

<p>I remind DH that my flexibility with work and going off the fast track has enabled him to work his 70 hour weeks (plus commute) and get the kudos he has.</p>

<p>D2 has three interviews on Wednesday and one on Thursday this week for her internship. She automatically gets one but has two clear favorites. Fairy dust, prayers and good karma appreciated!!! :)</p>

<p>TA, your take is on target. It takes a village, I guess, and modern America doesn’t have them. It is a full-time job raising kids and two high-powered adults can’t be there. However, if one chooses to step off the treadmill or to a lower-powered treadmill, then that partner’s future income potential is decreased. That partner is usually (though not always) the woman.</p>

<p>There is a factor that interacts with the potential loss of income to the woman. In our society (and many but likely not all others), men tend to choose mates younger than they are and women tend to choose mates older than they are. If we go back to evolution (which influences but does not determine how we behave), men tend to judge/value women based upon the characteristics correlated with fertility (tight skin, figure, …) – their ability to produce healthy offspring – and thus with youth. Women tend to judge/value men based upon their ability to ability to support offspring. Put this together with the preceding issue and if women take off to raise kids and then get divorced afterwards or midway through the process, they are much more likely to find a new mate. Therefore, their economic prospects come from the divorce settlement combined with their diminished economic capacities. </p>

<p>I have a friend who, in his late 50’s divorced his wife. He was told that he would be a very hot item because he was a high status, well-paid guy. He was skeptical, but was wrong. He started getting calls from all over the country about whether he would be willing to have dinner with some divorced or single woman friend. He described a few dinners with lots of desperation on the other side. He ended up marrying someone much younger. His wife, who is very nice, has been looking for a mate for a number of years with no luck. </p>

<p>In short, the combination of what seems to generate men’s and women’s relative attractiveness as mates at various ages with the economic consequences of dropping out of the fast-track make it risky for women who become SAHMs.</p>

<p>Much luck to NM’s D and all the others that are interviewing as well!</p>

<p>H stepped off the treadmill and worked at the local University – he could have made at least 2 times what he makes at the University if he had stayed in industry but he really enjoyed (and still does) his time at the University. Kids could have gone their for free but it wasn’t the right fit for either – so we paid. I stayed in industry – earning more than him for many years now. He was home when the kids were sick, when they had the occassional off day from school, etc. I worked full-time and always admired those that stayed home but it wasn’t the right fit for me. I was a much better mother when I had them before and after work. Kids did great at the day care center we chose (after much selection) and were happy there. I never missed an after school event, I was a room mother for both, and organized the room mom’s for several years. So I guess somehow I managed to do MOST of it – not all but MOST. For me it worked – for others (who need sleep :slight_smile: ) it might not. I think it really has to do with what works for you. My mom worked and was divorced 2x. I wasn’t going to be divorced with no source of income! Even after 29 years I still have my own bank accounts that do not have H’s name on them! :)</p>

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<p>So true.</p>

<p>I had the option to be a SAHM for 10+ years and I did. Truthfully, as much as I love my kids and being with them I really wanted to work but didn’t feel as if I was able to continue. H has a lot of wonderful qualities but he wasn’t a “hands on” type when the kids were little and his career required a lot of travel. We have no family within 800 miles, so no backup there. S had some medical issues. I am just “better” at working in business than at homemaking. But I can’t go back and change things…</p>

<p>Sending the good vibes to nm’s D as well as all who are interviewing/applying for jobs.</p>

<p>I’ve been trying to keep up by reading on my phone but no patience for posting. Just got back from the ABA meetings in San Francisco. Love reading this thread. We all have such interesting children.</p>

<p>Hmmm…Just a new thought (for me) as there are prenups perhaps there should be legal SAHM’s or SAHD’s paperwork that protects them. I did choose a very part time career and am just now wishing I had not. I do not really want more than the part time I do now but I don’t like this feeling that I have contributed less than H. He would never ever have managed children without me…</p>

<p>I was a SAHM from birth to the start of K for my oldest, and by the time my youngest started K I was the sole breadwinner when H went back to school. I agree it’s hard to get back on board after stepping out, although my jobs before opting out were below my education and abilities. H was also a SAHD, mainly because of employment challenges. My kids don’t really remember me being a SAHM. D’s best friend growing up also had a SAHD, so for her, it was very normal.</p>

<p>When I went to college my expectation was I would work for a while until I got married and had children and then became a SAHM, since that was what my family experience was growing up. My children think this is hilarious and can’t believe I was so naive.</p>

<p>I just caught up and read that article. No easy answers, TA, that’s for certain.
Some careers work better than others for parenting. Journalism, at least at an ambitious level, isn’t one of them :)</p>

<p>When I left my “real” career, I first took a year’s leave of absence. I left at a high point, after winning an award and having other job offers up chain and even a tentative book offer about a particularly intriguing case that had itself exhausted me. The offers were what had me wake up and realize that the trajectory wasn’t sustainable for a single parent in a long distance relationship. My managing editor had spoiled me. He or assigned staff regularly picked up mcson from school or after school care when I was on tight deadlines on national stories - which seemed to be often. This unusually supportive environment is not the norm in the newsroom. Once a competing outlet started recruiting him, I realized it was only a matter of time until I either had to follow him or return to the days with an editor who wouldn’t give me a particular beat because I “needed to be available for my son” (yes, that’s an exact quote. He meant it as a friend, but yes, it was probably illegal to say.)</p>

<p>And following or accepting other offers seemed to mean a large city with a high cost of living and no support network to raise my son. So I began to reevaluate my plan. Mch and I had been dating for a few years by that time. I had learned that in his imagination, I’d move in with him one day, and he was bemused that instead I was looking at opportunities that would take me still further away. I wasn’t quite ready to throw my lot in with his, move to a different country, and remove my son from easy access to his father at that point.</p>

<p>Fate colluded at the time to present an opportunity to manage a major public art installation and at the same time set up a satellite office for mch’s business in another city, so you might say my “career” departure was phased in a way that it kind of snuck up on me. After a year, when my leave of absence was up, I was offered my former ME’s job. After a lot of soul searching, I declined the offer, realizing it was likely to be my last in the industry because I’d gone rogue, and that’s not done :)</p>

<p>And then there was 9/11, which was crippling to any company that had an American and a Canadian office in many ways. Just getting across the border became at times an event. Business relationships with Americans were less than smooth when the Canadian prime minister of the day was running around saying 9/11 didn’t add up and later, that there was no evidence of WMDs. “Jean, shut up!” I used to pray :slight_smile: Anytime more than 10,000 moved between company bank accounts I think we were under terror watch ;)</p>

<p>So the unification of our households, business interests etc. became increasingly one of two ways to go, and y’all know which way I chose. In retrospect, terrifying for a former free agent with a hearty independent streak and trust issues…but because it was incremental, not precisely like jumping off a cliff – close, but not quite.</p>

<p>It became understood that although I was still working a 50-60 hr week, mch, who typically worked closer to 80, was not going to be preparing meals or otherwise running the household. It was easy not to resent this because he’s truly low maintenance, still does his own laundry, and generally has always supported my whims – held down the fort so I could be more flexible in parenting time, in travel time, in general doing whatever I needed. When someone is rock-solid like that, you’re too busy being grateful to carp about not having dinner together :slight_smile: I think sometimes necessity, surviving tough times and an ability to work toward common goals truly is the sturdiest glue in a relationship. It affords a lot of respect between the partners.</p>

<p>The side benefit of all this is although I never wanted to be in business for myself it created the opportunity to have closer contact and supervision over mcson. He came to the studio every day after school. He did his homework at his desk while I worked out the day. By the time he was 14, he also worked part time for us, and ran his school’s website and newsletter communications under our supervision. The structure of that probably had a lot to do with his ability to function well despite his inattentive type ADD. </p>

<p>Now that he’s gone and at least trying to launch, and now that mch is a scary few years from retirement age, the real question is how we move forward with the company. At one time I’d thought that it would have been better for me to go back to working for a larger company with a larger salary track and benefits to make that transition and ensure some later-in-life stability and replace myself at the company. But at the moment, I’m not sure that’s either viable or desirable. There are times I long for the golden handcuffs…even though I know they’re golden handcuffs :)</p>

<p>But in truth, the co really has become “ours” and the current client base increasingly generated by me. So its hard to know when to step back a little. Make hay while the sun shines, as they say :)</p>

<p>(Which I’d better go do now…thanks for the article, TA…provocative thought fodder :wink: Also, lest i forget amidst my reflective rambling…sending mojo to our kids, whatever their stage of launch :))</p>

<p>You have an interesting story, kmc. </p>

<p>I should not be posting in my crabby mood. Not usually like this but had a bad day at work yesterday, hard to be down one person in a group of four and am increasingly frustrated with our temp. Boss is taking a few well deserved vacation days and other coworker works from home on Mondays, so guess who had to supervise him yesterday? Hard for me to deal with someone who complains that he wants to do more challenging work ( apparently what I need help with is beneath him beacause he is a CPA. And what am I?) and drags his feet on the work that actually needs to be done. H got mad at me because of something I said, but I know he really wants me to try to leave work early on Friday (not happening) so that we can get a head start on the drive to the midwest. I am feeling very pressured . So…</p>

<p>Sorry for the vent.</p>