<h1>TM, I mentioned this thread to my wife, who talked about how she has coached our daughter to avoid problems. Our son did this stuff naturally, but for our daughter, she broke it down into steps. First, talk to the teacher on a regular basis and just ask “How am I doing? Given the quizzes/homework, does it look like there are areas Ishould work to make sure I understand better?” Second, if there are such areas, “What is the best way for me to work on this? Are there other problems in the book? Can I come in and review them with you (or the TA?)” Third, “Should I seek extra help? What is the best way to do this? Where do I find tutors who know the subject?”</h1>
<p>My son gave me another variant of this approach. He told me that he got a 99 on a mid-term and observed that one of his friends, who appeared to know the material, got a 70 and another kid he knew got a 40. He said if he’d gotten either grade, he would have made an appointment with the professor as soon as possible, gone over the test to identify what he didn’t know and then work out a plan to remedy the problem, and meet with the professor (they don’t really have TA’s where he is) regularly until it was clear that he knew the material really well. He was actually quite surprised that the other kids didn’t do this. [He appears to have internalized the moral of my friend’s/co-author’s approach to his general exams].</p>
<p>My wife suggested that someone who doesn’t know how to ask for help may need a little bit of step-by-step guidance. Maybe it will help.</p>
<h1>TM – sighs and groans of sympathy to you and your son, particularly in light of last spring’s push to finish and graduate.</h1>
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<p>As a professor and parent of a college freshman, may I add to what people have already said in this way: it will be helpful to distinguish what the prof can help with and what a coach or other support systems can do better.</p>
<p>A prof can help with understanding the material – if that (and, not, say failure to do the assignments, manage time, etc.) is indeed the issue. A prof can perhaps even help a student know what and how to study. But the prof isn’t going to be very helpful in things like the organization of daily life, acquisition of study habits and skills, and the like. I suppose I say that somewhat in self defense, but it’s also the case that the prof may not be the best person to address all the issues here. </p>
<p>I might also add that I have found this thread often very illuminating as I also regularly have requests for accommodations for students with various kinds of needs, learning disabilities, processing disorders, etc. </p>
<p>This past term I had a particularly challenging student; I spent more time coaching and helping this student than all others put together. Sometimes, frankly, I groaned inwardly when I saw who was waiting outside my office at office hours. I often thought that this student could have been one of the kids sometimes mentioned on this forum, and it helped me to hang in there!</p>
<p>Just checking in for the day. Congrats RMom–</p>
<p>DD and I had a lovely day shopping yesterday. DH was worried we were running up the credit cards, but we did not. He was even happier when I brought take out home from one of his favorite restaurants. </p>
<p>I’ve been wondering if DD will want to return as soon as the dorms open or will wait until the weekend. Thus far she’s saying she’ll wait. I suspect that might change if she finds out a lot of her floor is back. At least we have a couple of work free days coming up!</p>
<p>Hi Z
wel I wish my S was one someone groaned about seeing.
He just will not ask for help.</p>
<p>He has been coached by me for YEARS on how to approach things, how and when to ask. He always agrees and then does not do it. The only way I got him help in HS was to intervene myself.</p>
<p>He may not make it. We have been preparing ourselves for that possibility. He may not have matured enough to take this on. That is what we were hoping for. He KNOWS what he needs to do, and he is not lost as far as being able to grasp material. He does not know how to organize and make the time for the things he needs to work on. It is always last minute and not enough. That is the real issue. IF and it is a big big IF he can figure it out, that the time to begin working on something is as soon as you know it is going to be due, even if it is just wrting out some notes to organize your thoughts, he could do brilliantly. It just might not be in the next few months.
I do intend to contact academic services and let them know I am concerned. I hope they will contact his advisor (as soon as he is assigned one) and maybe even assign one with the math chops to encourage this boy.
I think it is most frustrating for him because everything (with the exception of writing) has come too easily to him in the past. Despite our coaching in the ways to be organized he found that it was not necessary for most things, his wing and prayer method worked, so he thought we were full of do do. He has now said he knows that he needs to do the things we have coached him on for years, however he does not have the habits. He had better develop them. I just hope he really really wants to stay there. That will be his motivation to figure out how to get the help.</p>
<p>Oh, #TM, I’m reading your last post and recognizing so much of my own DS (the HS soph) in it. I just hope my DS realizes in the next couple of years that the wing and a prayer method won’t always work for him. I maybe posting this same thing in 3 years and wanting the 2013 parents to come back for advice and a listening ear.</p>
<p>And, I suspect, he does not know how to develop the habits. It’s one thing to know what he needs to do; but quite another to know how to go about doing it. </p>
<p>But he has shown that he can manage the work there. I hope he can get the right coaching (which might need to be pretty hands on for a while) regarding organization etc. </p>
<p>I wish I were more optimistic about the help a faculty advisor might offer; so much depends on who that advisor turns out to be. My hunch is that the academic services office might be of greater assistance – if #tm son will be willing to take it. At that point, it will depend in part on how much he <em>wants</em> to stay at the school – but even wanting it a lot may not be enough.</p>
<p>All best wishes; I know everyone here is rooting for him and you!</p>
<h1>TM – The hardest thing for a parent to do is watch a child fail. But sometimes failing is the only way to truly learn. I helped my older D so much in managing her time in HS and I rescued her from the bottom of that proverbial pool too many times for her own (or my) good. I did nothing to help her develop persistence or motivation. I kept thinking that if we can just get to a fresh start, she would step up. I also believed that if she tasted success for herself that would encourage future motivation. She excelled so much in certain areas and because I knew she was smart, it was even further disappointing. I had to let go. I could not be remotely attached in the chance I could draw the “blame.” And it was a rough year or two for both of us.</h1>
<p>But I learned a valuable parenting lesson, even if it was essentially too late for it to be most helpful to her. It is not YOUR success or failure. Even if they succeed OR fail. You have bent over backwards saving your son from his own procrastination and disorganization. I really like Shawbridge’s advice about the step by step system. But YOU cannot do it for him. And to be honest, had I backed off from my oldest a helluva lot sooner than I did, perhaps she would have found her own motivation and persistence a lot sooner. It was painfully hard to stand back when she was clearly not reaching her potential (who am I kidding, I was worried she didn’t even see she HAD potential). But you should have seen her face when those grades were posted just before Christmas. Yes, she is behind the curve at her age. And I am sure she has a ton of regrets (another thing I was hoping she’d avoid if only she did XYZ). But she glowed. It was all her.</p>
<p>I offer my story only as some perspective and that I know how your heart must be breaking. I also understanding the vacillating emotions between feeling badly and fuming. Truly. We want so much for our kids to see themselves as we do - that anything is possible if they’d just (fill in the blank) - But I finally realized I had too much invested of myself in what was to be her process. The thing is, you want to be there when the kid falls down, but believe me when I say there is nothing you can say that he hasn’t probably thought of himself but he has to want to dig deep and take advantage of any and all help he can get. And yes, he will have to advocate for himself to get it.</p>
<p>Zetesis - I loved your story about the particularly challenging student. Your patience probably did more for the future confidence of this person far more than any of our parental encouragement made from several hundred and thousands of miles away. I, for one, thank you for taking the time.</p>
<p>Yes I know, have known for years he was due for a fall. I had just hoped to stave it off, until he had some maturity enough to do something about it once he fell flat. I can only hope he is at that point. I will continue to encourage him to go to the AR office. But only he can do it.</p>
<p>When we decided to spend the money to send him to this school, we were well aware that we were gambling the money. He fully knows as well, we were only willing to gamble it for one year.</p>
<p>We will see how much he wants to stay. Hopefully he will want it and not talk himself out of it and then not do the work (there is that danger- an old habit)</p>
<p>Someday, this kid will be a successful man, I know it in my heart, but I was hoping it would be sooner, rather than later. He has always had to learn hard lessons. I was hoping too this would be easier for him. He had high hopes. I think he still does, which is good, and I am trying to encourage these, because once he gives up…</p>
<p>Thanks for your broad shoulders everyone, and I know I am not alone, so that helps too.</p>
<p>RochesterMom, congrats on your D’s grades. Wonderful news.</p>
<p>H and S just left for their road trip to Florida, both excited even though it is cold and rainy. S1 says that about 2 million people are expected to attend the New Year’s party he is going to on Copacabana beach, so I know he will have fun. I think I will read that Pollan book recommended on the diet thread. </p>
<p>Every time I read about a student knowing what they should do but not being able to execute, I think about my struggles with weight. One thing I’ve learned from the WW meetings is that there is no one “right” way to reach a goal. What works and motivates me (in terms of school, career, or weight loss) won’t be the approach that works for somebody else. </p>
<p>All of our students are going through a transition process right now of figuring out what works best for them in terms of grades, choice of major, relationships, eating and exercise habits, and ECs in a college setting with less parental influence. It’s a journey not a destination, so there is no failure, just a myriad of challenges that each will learn from and tackle in their own way. If we look back on our own paths, most of us probably experienced some big bumps and/or detours along the way.</p>
<h1>theorymom, you express this well in your comment that you know #theoryson will be a successful man someday. Just remind yourself, and him, of that on a regular basis and let him own the process of how best to get there, even if it isn’t the route you would take.</h1>
<h1>TM – would your S be more comfortable asking another student for help? My S took Calc III during A term & Calc IV B term with the same prof – who was not very good. As I posted earlier, this prof would simply skip steps and/or not explain things. S said the TA for that prof was also not very helpful. I think he tried the MASH office a couple of times, but ultimately ended up getting much better help from other guys on his floor. My impression is WPI is big on the cooperation aspect. vs competition.</h1>
<p>Good Morning! Had trouble sleeping AGAIN last night. Guess that means I will have an early to bed NYE!</p>
<p>I am nervously waiting to hear news from one of D2’s transfer schools. It is a rolling admission school and her transcript was the final piece to be sent in. School offices are closed until next week. She doesn’t appear to be worried about it but I know she is anxious to get an answer and be done with the process. At least she is sleeping through the night!</p>
<p>D2’s BF has ADD and takes Adderall. He was over for most of the day yesterday and I noticed he was very loud, hyper, talkative and very active. I mentioned to D2 that he was a bit different. She laughed and said he hadn’t taken his Adderall. Said he only takes it for school. Is that common? I found the difference in temperment very pronounced and am amazed how this drug can make such a difference. Was very interesting to me.</p>
<p>NM - a friend of mine has 2 boys (out of 3) who are on meds for ADD – not sure exactly what but they only take them when in school. Definite difference in them – they drive me nuts when NOT on the meds.</p>
<h1>TM – Just a couple of additional thoughts to add to your situation. First, I don’t know if you’re aware but there is a particular set of learning disabilities that actually create an organizational deficit (NonVerbal Learning Disabilities). Should your son fit that profile in his assessment, it is entirely possible that the kind of coaching and structural help may be available through the learning disabilities department of your school. You might want to ask your neuropsych about same.</h1>
<p>Secondly, this is kind of madcap, but I’ll throw it out there. My son has struggled with big-picture level organizational dysfunction approximately forever. I made him read Seven Habits about four times during HS. The last time it seemed to stick (a little…except for music theory ; ) A second contributing factor that seemed to help him improve was specific coaching from a friend of mine who used to help organize Landmark Forums. Landmark, in the event you’re unfamiliar, is a program that developed out of the old S-type corporate training in the 60s. While some feel it’s a little on the cultish side, I have personally experienced the benefit of the forum and it was one of the best things I ever did. The core message in Landmark is that each of us has everything it takes to live a life we love, and that the responsibility of “who we’re being” is wholly ours. It is an examination of ways of being (I know, that sound flaky, but in practice I find it a very efficient way to self-manage.) One of the Landmark themes my son lives by is the idea that at any given second of any given day, one can reinvent oneself as a human who is organized. And that it’s perfectly ok to reinvent oneself every day. And that the most important thing is to remain within your own personal integrity, which includes being in integrity with professors who are expecting things from you when you fill a seat, such as timely papers, exams, effort and request for assistance and clarity ; )
Although McSon did not do the forum himself (have to be 18 to do the forum weekend and he didn’t turn 18 until this fall), it is quite interesting to hear him today counsel his friends on approaches to living that very much reflect this coaching my friend and I instilled in him. He has developed something of an empowered and unstoppable character and he’s quick to identify when he’s “making up stories” (eg. excuses re performance and choices.) </p>
<p>Wow, didn’t I post almost the identical thing about two weeks ago?</p>
<p>For all of Son’s faults, he gets MAJOR sweet points. Last night we had a few couples over. D16 went off to a sleepover. Son had plans to go to his GF’s house to watch Up. Rather than leave his 14 year old sister home alone with the adults, he took her over to GF’s house with him, and she watched Up and ate pizza with her whole family. Isn’t that so sweet of all of them?</p>
<p>One more thing, #theorymom, music theory is the downfall of many musicians. My own H, who is a professional classical singer, was not a music major or minor *because of *theory. He had the lead in all the operas at a large university but was not a music major or minor. I know your son may have a bit of it in his blood, but I bet that only a small portion of the human beings on the planet could pass a course in jazz theory. The idea of it makes my mind hurt.</p>
<p>I really think someone (at the school) should have been watching over your S’s course selection this term. It’s fantastic that your S is taking responsiblity, but if I were you I’d feel a bit let down by the school. Freshman need more input from their academic advisors than other students. (Practicing my speech to Son’s school…)</p>
<p>While I am speaking in very large generalities, there are primarily two different kinds of ADHD (all of which fall under the ADHD ICD-9): one is “primarily inattentive type” without hyperactivity and then there is ADD with hyperactivity and under that there are something like 3 or 4 subdiagnosis’ under that: overactivity with no other symptoms, combined type (both inattentive and hyperactivity)and predominately hyperactive/impulsive type. (there is also then the distinction between adult and child)</p>
<p>Medication works differently on people depending on the type and the degree. My oldest child is primarily inattentive type and so she just seems to “space out” without reason. Unfortunately, if you are not causing issues in class this type usually goes untreated OR people just assume you don’t care. My youngest daughter has combined type and so while she can be hyperactive, it’s mostly an issue of distractability. She has a tendency to leave bits of herself all over the house. Not sure how much older D takes her medicine beyond school because frankly, she isn’t hyperactive and there isn’t much need to be focused when you’re just hanging out. And too… many people with ADD of any type has the unusual talent (I prefer to spin the positive) of being able to hyper focus on things they are interested in. D2 only takes her adderall during the week and for game situations on the weekends. I cannot tell when she does not take her medicine, but she can. However, I substitute taught for a long time and for those people who deal with hyperactivity and a high degree of impulsivity, I can see how when not taking their medicine their symptoms may be pronounced.</p>
<p>This would also apply to oldest D… and thankfully so or else her life may have been in danger as a young child. Of course, when my kids were very young I used to say, Thank God they’re so cute or I’d have to kill them. Not funny when you think about the psychosis some mother’s suffer, but for the most part I was sane.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info Moda! I was just so fascinated to see how this boy’s personality was so different. Interesting to see how much medication can alter things. Now I know why he retook the ACT…took it first without meds and then with meds the second time.</p>
<p>Hi all–I’ve been reading and sympathizing with you and your boys. Had a lovely stomach flu over the last 24 hours, so I’ve been a little MIA. I continue to be so happy for your sons and daughters that you all have such great insight into your children, warts, sweetness and all. I hope 2010 brings our 2013-ers success, not only in school, but also with the real roadbumps in life.</p>