Parents of the HS Class of 2009 (Part 1)

my-3-sons · December 31, 2009, 10:36am

Theory-I can’t stress enough the need to have him meet with his advisors to select an appropriate “soft” schedule next semester. Feeling the successes of a good semester after experiencing the bitter taste of disappointment can have a wonderful jump start effect. Baby steps. He should not try to learn organizational study skills while juggling a challenging schedule. Knowing what needs to be done and doing it are two very different things. Sometimes just wanting it is not enough, it can be overwhelming for a kid who is not equipped with time management skills. Let him wade back in, not jump into the deep end and try to stay afloat. He has 3 more years to catch up, don’t try to do it this semester. I would consider mastering this next semester as adding the workload of a class, since he will be essentially learning all new skills.

You’ve gotten some great advice from Modadunn, kmccrindle and others. Check all through the Advising, Academic Resources and Disability websites, there’s some great info available. Help him set small goals that he can measure weekly, not just when grades come out at the end of the semester. You can also help him make charts or checklists to hang near his workspace. My S really benefitted from setting a study schedule and treating school like a full-time 9-5 job. After he leaves his dorm in the morning, he does not return until the end of the day. Between classes he hits the library to get a good portion of his work and studying done. Attending office hours is extremely helpful, even for the best of students.

Your S can do it, but he needs continual guidance and a clearcut path to follow. I think increased communication (not interrogations or lectures ) to help him stay focused and encouraged would be beneficial. I have been there and I sympathize, but I can also happily report that it is very possible for a kid to turn this around. My one that went through this is now very responsible and proud of his academic successes. Hang in there and try to stay positive.

DragonLady · December 31, 2009, 11:27am

Oh, #theorymom, I am so sorry to hear your news.

We had a similar experience with S’s A term. He NRed 2 classes. It was completely unexpected to him (and therefore - to us). We thought he was getting an A (cs 1) and a B (phy 1) in those 2 classes. (He got a B in his 3rd class - a humanities class!)

I firmly believe that one has to understand what went wrong, to have any hope of preventing a re-occurrence. Further investigation, over the first few weeks of B term, revealed that he had a pretty spotty record of turning in assignments. He was procrastinating on doing his work (which is particularly bad for someone with slow processing speed), and then running out of time, or if he had any questions it was too late to get help. His test grades were ok (mostly) but not enough to make up for a bunch of zeros.

He was a few weeks into B term before the dust settled on A term, and his work habits did not appear to be any better. Over Thanksgiving break we had a “talk”. The gist of it was: you have to want this, and you have to want it enough to change your work habits, otherwise you won’t be going back next year.

He was pretty nervous about checking his grades after B term. He wanted to wait until after Christmas. The entire family was a nervous wreck. When I finally insisted that he check them on the 26th, the news was good: B (humanities), C (calc IV), C (phy 2). He (we all) breathed a huge sigh of relief. He had been especially worried about the calc IV (prof was difficult to understand, course was graded on a curve so he never knew where he stood).

His improvement in B term is especially encouraging because he had a tougher course load than he had had in A term. So, even though the improvement is slight, I know he must have been working harder.

Much of what you have said about your S sounds just like mine, with the (important!) exception that mine is sometimes willing to ask for help. My S has dysgraphia and (extremely) slow processing speed. He has some accommodations (including extended time on tests) in place for those LDs.

You were asking about academic coaching: at WPI it is available via the Disability Services Office. My S meets twice a week with his coach. They go over his current work, and his upcoming assignments. She will sometimes contact his professors, if it seems necessary.

He was also getting the academic coaching in A term, but he kept telling her that he was doing “fine” (same as he told us), and she believed him (as did we). After the disastrous results of A term, he has developed a more honest relationship with his coach. I think this has been an important element in his improvement.

In C term, he will be retaking the courses he NR-ed in A term. It should be a relatively easy term for him. I am hoping he will take the opportunity to excel in those classes, and solidify some good work habits. (ever the optimist…)

It is likely he will take some courses in E term also. (Are you aware that merit aid doesn’t apply to E term?)

You mentioned that you don’t think your S’s academic standing has been impacted. I’m not sure that is right. Academic standing is evaluated at the end of each semester. They have to pass 4 (of 6) courses in order to avoid dropping a level. I suspect he is now at “Academic Warning”.

I spent some time educating myself on the intricacies of academic standing, WPI merit aid, outside merit aid, etc, when our “situation” first arose. Some facts that were relevant to us:
the outside merit aid goes away permanently if he drops to “academic warning”
the WPI merit aid allows for 1 NR per year (after that you lose 5% for each extra NR)
you can “earn back” the WPI merit aid by doing well the next year

Although we are breathing a little easier here, I am still quite nervous about what the next 2 quarters will bring.

{{{hugs to all of you}}}

Cardinal_Fang · December 31, 2009, 11:42am

The last couple of psychologists my son has seen say that nowadays, people who were diagnosed with NonVerbal Learning Disorder will now be classified as having Aspergers. That makes sense to me because when my son was initially diagnosed with NVLD, I looked it up and said, “Oh I see. Mini-Aspergers.” My son is now diagnosed with Aspergers, after previously being diagnosed with, in order, nothing wrong with him but homeschooling, ADHD, NVLD. Aspergers is clearly the right diagnosis.

(Pause here to throw a brick at psychologists who think whatever symptoms a homeschooled child has must be entirely due to the parents. I have another friend who had been trying for years to get some kind of explanation for her homeschooled son’s troubles. “Nothing wrong with him, you need to be better parents,” she was told over and over again. Finally, in desperation, they sent him to high school. Amazingly, when he walked through the school door this previously neurotypical kid suddenly developed Aspergers-- or so it seems, since the psychologists now were able to diagnose him. Memo to psychologists: early diagnosis is better.)

TheAnalyst · December 31, 2009, 11:43am

NM, our older son is ADD (inattentive). He doesn’t like the feel of the meds, so doesn’t take them for any reason–doesn’t even have a current prescription. It is very obvious when he takes them and when he doesn’t and certainly was easier on family members when he was on meds, but we have learned to just accept him as he prefers to live. Typical behavior would be going upstairs to bring down a load of laundry and forget by the second step why he was headed upstairs and end up doing something else instead like take a nap or read a book or just come back down. He will need a job where attentiveness is not necessary. He is very intelligent and made almost straight As for the two brief years he took his adderall (senior year of high school and freshman year of college). Now he spends a ton more time on homework just to earn a B (just as he did pre-drugs), but is OK with that trade-off. I think ADD for him makes everything a little blurry, but pleasant, like wearing rose-colored glasses. The drugs put life into sharp focus and let him complete tasks quickly and efficiently but he also finds that somewhat stressful and just not him.

Modadunn · December 31, 2009, 12:09pm

My older D didn’t like the meds when she was in HS and wouldn’t take them. However, she also had pretty bad rebound with adderall (headaches and just plain horrible mood - which when you’re sweet as a general rule is a pain) But now after some trial and error does much, much better on straight up ritalin - low doses taken in the AM and then after lunch. It has made the world of difference in her being able to sustain energy to complete tasks (a big issue of inattentive types) not to mention her taking 5 classes instead of the full load of four and doing really really well overall. And without a planner, she’d be completely lost. I highly recommend an Iphone or at least an Ipod touch especially because she uses a MAC and it automatically syncs her calenders. Organization is HUGE.

I had a little talk with S yesterday about expectations for next semester. He’s only registered for three classes (two of the three have labs) because he was shut out of one class and his advisor said that if he is playing his sport, it might be better to only take the three classes (cuz labs are really time consuming). Anyway… I told him that while I thought he did “fine” (A-, B+, B and a C+) last semester, I knew him and felt he could do much better. He didn’t seem to blow me off and said he expected A’s in the sciences, the other is a classics history thing and so he should do really well since, as I pointed out, he’s had five years of Latin, two of which were AP. My point is that reading translated texts, some of which he’d already read IN Latin shouldn’t be too difficult for the guy. My thing is if he doesn’t make the team, he really should pick up a fourth class because if he doesn’t have a full schedule AND he’s not on the team… well, that’s a recipe for surely too much of nothing good. This is a kid who always did his best work while busiest as I think it really helps him organize his time. It does seem a little unfair to me that a science class with a lab is worth the same amount of credits as a humanities class. But here’s the thing… if I say “If you don’t make the team then…” it makes it sound like I don’t think he will make the team or am somehow unsupportive. If I say nothing then it seems like I am fine with the “reduced” course load - even though it’s not really reduced per say. We really don’t have to worry TOO much about the upcoming semester quite yet because they have an entire J-term between now and then, but our face time is coming to an end because he heads back east on Saturday morning 6am flight. As my H&I agree, we can only really assess results and the C+ was disappointing from this kid.

TheAnalyst · December 31, 2009, 12:38pm

Moda, what team is he trying to make? Will he know in time to pick up another class without missing anything? If not, another option could be to have him get a part-time job. You wouldn’t have to bring that up until after the team issue has been settled.

Zetesis · December 31, 2009, 1:03pm

I agree with Modadunn on the seeming injustice of science-with-lab courses counting what other courses do. D2 is currently a chem major – and this means, next year, o-chem, physics, and perhaps bio. All lab courses – so in addition to four hours of class time a week, a 3 hour lab for each one. She’s got enough AP credits that she could carry only 3 courses each term and still graduate on time, and I want her to consider this, but she’s also interested in a math and/or German minor …

She did carry 19 units this term (3 units were in dance, so no work outside of class, although there were 5-6 hours a week in class, plus extra rehearsals for the show right at finals time). And, she got all As, including one A+ (in dance). So, she’s handling it all well.

BTW, she also says she never studies in her dorm: she leaves her laptop there, and it’s just too big a distraction. She studies in the library.

shawbridge · December 31, 2009, 1:26pm

I don’t know how relevant our daughter’s experience is, but 1.5 years ago, she was diagnosed as ADD and we tried lots of things (extra time, which helped, herbal stuff, which didn’t). She was getting a B/B+ average at a pretty intense New England private high school that has a enforced curve in each class with an B- median. She was always forgetting some homework assignment, especially if she had gotten sick. This fall, she started Ritalin and is getting 4 A or A-s (she thinks) and one B, whereas before it was one to A’s, often in the artsy subjects, and three to four B’s. She says she understands classes better, does homework more efficiently, does lots better on tests with lots less anxiety (she’s generally pretty anxious). She generally takes Concerta, which is long-lasting, but the combination of extra time and Concerta have made a big difference in both performance and confidence/lesser anxiety. The rebound is pretty rough each night (lucky us, it generally happens at home). But, the changes are pretty clear. She’s much more organized. She hasn’t forgotten assignments. We’re not crazy about drugs but she is really happy she gets ritalin.

Tiredofsnow · December 31, 2009, 1:38pm

TheAnalyst, just wanted to say how much your post (#7049) resonated with me. I think it may have gotten overlooked a bit, but you wrote a little gem of a post.

_theorymom · December 31, 2009, 1:40pm

yes and it is why he is switching out of Analysis to Calc, as almost everyone takes calc and almost no one takes anaysis. He looked for help from fellow students and could find none.

There are no soft schedules at this school. Not for someone who cannot write. The math and sciences are easier for him. I have been working on him to take calc II but he says he understands it very well. I said good, then it will be a refresher and you will get a good grade and feel good going on. We shall see

Like I said, I intend to talk to his school to make sure his advisor understands the lay of the land.

Never say never, but I don’t think S will be diagnosed with ADD. I think it may come back HF Aspergers, but I could be totally wrong there too. I am anxiously awaiting the reports. I only know she will be recommending accommodations because she told my S that.

Thanks for those ideas kmc. Will certainly look into them.

I can’t stress enough how much all of you ideas and suggestions are appreciated. DragonL congrats to your S for turning it around. I think #boy can do it too. Especially since he had a pretty good first term. It would be oh so much worse if he had got all c’s last term and NR’d this term. He would never be able to drag himself back up. Having a 3.8 from last term will help him in many ways, not the least of which is psychologically.

Modadunn · December 31, 2009, 2:03pm

Shawbridge - your comment about anxiety resonated with our experience hugely. It’s definitely a contributing factor and of course, if you’re anxious, it’s harder to concentrate and if that’s already an issue… well, talk about a spiral! I know concerta is probably a better choice for a kid who is at school all day, but she MAY want to consider switching to something she might better be able to regulate with the same affects later on. The only issue older D still has on occasion is REMEMBERING to take it after lunch - especially because she doesn’t always eat lunch. When she was home I set up her calendar to ding every day at 12:30 to remind her. She said it doesn’t matter so much now on break, but just the dinging every day is a huge help to her remembering!

My niece has aspergers and one of her “issues” is a slightly distorted view of reality in which she can convince herself pretty readily that everything is going along just fine and seems insulted when you offer different facts. now this could have nothing to do with Aspergers and everything to do with just who she is, but she definitely has a disconnect sometimes between what she is told and what she hears so that she was misunderstanding assignments and deadlines, etc. One of her accomodations at this point is that things need to be written down - syllabus or something - right down to the actual project assignment. My SIL was telling me yesterday it’s gone much better this first semester.

Modadunn · December 31, 2009, 2:06pm

PS analyst… I tried to send you a PM and can’t figure out why I can’t. Do you have to “allow” those in some way?

flatxca · December 31, 2009, 2:08pm

My heart goes out to you, TM. We have faced similar situations with 2 of our 4 children. One book I found helpful was “Smart Kids with School Problems” by Priscilla Vail. It can be very difficult for a child to pull it all together when they are so advanced in one area (like math) and average in another (like language). Modifications are a good start. Both of these children are diagnosed ADD; one as a child and he resisted medications until college. The other we totally missed until her senior year of high school. It also can be difficult to notice signs of ADD when they are doing fairly well in school, but if you look hard, the signs may be there. Not knowing where to start, not following through with assignments, thinking it is OK and being genuinely being surprised when it is not. Sometimes it is laziness, but it does not sound as if laziness is an issue here. Certainly medications are not a cure and they can be of no help to some. BUT they can be a real help as part of an overall program.

TheAnalyst · December 31, 2009, 2:20pm

Modadunn, I just enabled that so it should work now. I did have it turned off. Sorry about that.

Tiredofsnow, thank you for that feedback.

_theorymom · December 31, 2009, 3:03pm

flatxca
I think there is something other than laziness going on, but I think he learned to be lazy as well, that when things weren’t working it was too much work to end up with the same result as when he did nothing, and it will be a hard habit to break.

There are so many good and helpful posts here, please forgive me if I don’t name you all when I thank you.

_theorymom · December 31, 2009, 3:04pm

eek Moda
Your niece sounds like my son

shawbridge · December 31, 2009, 3:33pm

Modadunn, she has the same problem with four hour ritalin in terms of the rebound, so we figured and all day thing would be better (better that we get the rebound than her peers/teachers). Her reaction has gotten a lot less dramatic over time.

Modadunn · December 31, 2009, 4:16pm

HA shawbridge… some of that may very well just be that she is a teenage girl and has nothing to do with ADD or medications!! I think they ALL suffer from rebound when it comes to saving it up for parents!! I remember going to one of my S’s first parent teacher conferences and the teacher going on and on about how considerate he was, what a patient worker, etc… and I honestly felt like pulling out his picture and asking if we were talking about the same kid! In fact, his need to decompress is so vital that I worried that he’d end up alienating people but as it turns out, he know he needs to work out just about every day to keep his own personal form of rebound to himself. Seriously, if he doesn’t work out, he’s a bear by the end of the day and there’s nothing warm or fuzzy about him.

missypie · December 31, 2009, 4:23pm

Moda, I think we’ve observed before that your son is the male version of my 17 year old D.

When you have a kid with any type of “diagnosis” it’s so difficult to know what is “normal”, what is their personality, and what is due to whatever their condition is. To really know, I guess you’d have to have identical twins, but one with the diagnosis and one without.

Modadunn · December 31, 2009, 5:44pm

But are even identical twins truly identical?

My son has no diagnosis… he’s just… umm… unique! :)

Parents of the HS Class of 2009 (Part 1)

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