Found out yesterday that three of my son’s close friends who went to U Maryland either failed or got a D in their first college math class. Very surprising! These were some of the smartest kids in high school, and their math prep seemed excellent. My son aced his course at a different college (Discrete Math, same as one of the failed courses). I am not convinced my son is that much smarter – I think that the course he took was probably less challenging. Is that a bad thing?
@crowlady, DS has told me of some wonderful students who have hit a wall on the math required for their subjects. These are all high-achieving students (he attends Yale), but they are having trouble keeping up with the math required in Economics (for one example). There are many subjects that don’t require much math (a million years ago, I was a TA in Statistics for Psych students; don’t ask…), but when you need it, you need it.
DS also feels that there are kids who in HS worked their way through math, as one can do in Algebra and Calc, but there comes a point where intuition and strong understanding are required, and it is uncommon to be able to “hard work” your way to that.
Congratulations to your son.
The math might not have been easier, but maybe the conditions were? Better TA, better small group help, better classroom?
My daughter did well in her calc class and my nephew did not. Different schools, and my sister is convinced her son’s class was harder than my daughter’s. My mother is convinced my daughter drank less beer and sat herself down in the library more nights than my nephew did. She also went to every class, every study session, every office hour session.
My mother is pretty smart.
I think the problem is the way high schools accelerate students in math. Kids can learn to compute a lot faster than their brains are ready to comprehend (and it’s got nothing to do with intelligence; it’s a maturity/development issue). So, as long as we push 'em into advanced math as soon as they can do the computations, I think we see students surprised that they’re not as good in math as they thought. I saw lots of my friends kids struggling in calc, all “A” math students in high school, all fairly high SAT/ACT math score kids. There’s definitely a disconnect.
Even the same course taught by different professors at the same school can vary in terms of difficulty. It’s really hard to know whether it’s the material, the student, the professor or other factors like twoinanddone pointed out. I would be happy he did well.
I remember a girl in my HS who was near the top of our class. My best friend was ranked somewhat lower. They both ended up pre-med at the same college. My friend did very well. The other girl not so much. My friend predicted that outcome because she said the other girl worked too hard in HS for her grades, and that if she had to work that hard in HS, she’d hit a wall in college when the workload was greater and material more difficult. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard. But sometimes, you need enough talent (or brain maturity) too.
What’s odd is that my son was failing the second year of calc in high school and dropped that class. The other kids were more advanced and as far as I know did well. He usually does better on concepts than on computation and Discrete Math also included a lot of review for him. So part of it may be that he was especially prepared for this particular class. We’ll see how he does in the next one!
The others might have placed into more advanced courses and maybe weren’t really ready (I know that happens at his college, too). And then there’s the “not enough studying” possibility. My S always does his math homework first because it is always so concrete.
I have been arguing with my husband that high schools should require that everyone take stats, and only encourage calculus for those who might need it, like those bound for engineering or physics. As an adult in biology and IT I can’t say I’ve used my calculus. Stats is MUCH more useful.
First let me say that I am impressed that your son is even in discrete mathematics as a freshman! It’s a 300 level class in many colleges so wow!
But that could most certainly explain why those other kids didn’t do so well. The further you go in math, the sounder your foundation and abstract thinking skills need to be. You can’t just gut through it anymore.
And it’s interesting that your son considers math to be concrete. I always thought of it as very abstract at the higher levels. DH has a doctorate in math and I couldn’t wrap my head around any of his work. I’m one of those that have ok math skills (econ undergrad and some graduate work before I changed my mind about what I wanted to do when I grew up) but only as far as calculus and basic econometrics and statistics.
I guess by concrete I mean that, compared to open-ended writing assignments, the questions are well-specified and there is usually a correct answer. He hates the ambiguity of literary analysis! Personally, I loved the idea that I could develop my own thesis and support it with the arguments I thought were sufficient. But I also liked mathematical proofs where you logically string together these (admittedly abstract) pieces of knowledge to get from A to B. You have to understand the pieces and the overall point of it all, but there’s a limited universe you are drawing from and you know the starting and ending points. You certainly know when you are done! I think my son is totally fine with the latter but those writing assignments confound him. Too many possible starting points! And it isn’t like there’s one correct answer. He’s having trouble now filling out job applications because he doesn’t know what is “right” in describing his skills and experience.
He did correct me – he doesn’t do his math first but he does get it done by the weekly deadlines. He also says having a math-for-fun kind of dad (himself the son of a math prof) helped, too. The conversations in our household are not so typical!
@crowlady - I fully agree with your post about stats vs. calculus. I have spent my career in various science-related jobs (from natural history to biotech) and have never needed calculus. I took some stats in college, but more would have been nice. And then there’s always personal finance - god knows most of us could use some more training in that!
Her medical care is not an issue. Yale has an excellent student health service and her hospitalization is covered under my federal plan which is national. Dental is another issue. My government dental plan is an HMO and we have an assigned local doctor. She has long standing dental issues. Was cheaper to bring her home for a $200 train ride and pay the dentist less than $125, than to find a dentist in New Haven and pay emergency fees, for x-rays and the root canal she needed. That would have been considerably more than $315. Also, since he knows her mouth well, after the lecture about not coming in during winter break, he fixed her up in less than an hour.
Sometimes I think if we didn’t call it math kids would have a much better time with the subject. Let’s call it “Understanding newspaper articles about health and the economy” or “Getting back what the IRS owes you” or “How to decide where to put your 401K” or even “How to make sure the bridge you are building doesn’t fall down.”
My kids had to read “A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper” by John Allen Paulos in HS. Unfortunately, many HS graduates can’t read a newspaper critically.
It’s a very interesting experience to be on the other side of a newspaper story (ie, be part of the subject matter). It’s astonishing how many details are gotten wrong & then to realize that must be the case in every story in the paper.
Regrets? I think my son is having regrets. He is struggling a little bit because he’s no longer the big fish in the little pond and he doesn’t know how to stand out in the huge pond where he’s swimming. He thinks the other fish are far more adept at swimming than the fish he knew in his last pond. He doesn’t seem to think he’ll be a leader at anything because there is too much competition. However, he’s co-treasurer of his dorm’s council already. He’s just struggling a bit with the transition. I think what he’s going through is fairly typical and I’m keeping an eye on it, but this is precisely why he was unsure about this school. I think he’ll overcome it and by his senior year, things will be very different. Right now, in the moment, he’s feeling unsteady.
I made that exact same observation when I was in high school. Not putting down journalists in any way, because I admire the profession immensely, but it’s amazing how even good reporters can get the most basic elements of a story wrong and then are often loathe to make corrections. I guess that’s why journalism has been described as a “first rough draft of history.”
@Felicita - Thanks so much for the links. Very interesting. And @staceyneil and @crowlady - thanks for the concern. I’m hoping the doctor will be able to help her. Apparently he’s a balance specialist with a background in both neurology and ENT so he should be able to help. It seems to be really bad when she goes in elevators (luckily her room is only on the 2nd floor and her dorm doesn’t have an elevator). However, she walked up a very small ramp in our LL Bean store and felt the same thing which is really weird. And she’s said something about changing lighting also affecting it. She doesn’t play sports anymore but tried skiing over break. I was concerned about the ski lift rides but she had more problems going downhill with the changing in lighting. Just a week and then we find out.
And she’s also still adjusting. She loves mostly everything about her school except her roommate! And she’s still trying to find “her” people. I think she found some during her winter breaks project and I hope this semester will bring more of them. She’s even talking about rushing a sorority or one of the coed fraternities!
@2016BarnardMom, your son’s personal growth may be more stretched at UofM than it would have been elsewhere. He’s out of his comfort zone and his boundaries, whether real or imagined, are being pushed. He’s going to learn how to navigate these waters, and when he does, no matter where he lands professionally, he’ll handle himself with aplomb. He’s already proving himself with his treasurer position on dorm council. Good for him!
Crowlady: I think that one of the reasons why my sons have had little or no trouble with college-level math (they are math kids, too) is their choice of professors. My son really shopped for his Calculus III professor. He got a good one, too. He wanted someone who had a reputation of explaining concepts well as well as someone who was understanding with student-athletes. He got that in his professor this fall. He would e-mail her and explain that he had a meet on Saturday. Then, he would ask if he could come to office hours to learn that Friday’s lesson, as he had to miss class. He did that several times, and always made certain he handed in his assignments. He really liked the professor, and he hopes to have her again for a stats class next year. For some strange reason, my son really does well with a female math teacher/professor. He loved the three ladies who taught him high school math.
Meanwhile, my son continues to feel better. He says his ear does not bother him (the drops must be working). He went to see his track coach the other day, so they could plan out his return to running. He said that he spent time on the exercise bike in the afternoon, and hopefully, he can be back at full strength next week.
At least he has been keeping up with his studies and getting some much-needed rest.
My daughter left last night after a very long break. Actually she went to her BF’s house a state away and they will leave for school tomorrow. Classes start on Monday.
It was a very interesting vacation. She spent most of it with BF either here or there. He’s a very nice guy and although I don’t think they will be together forever, it’s a nice relationship for both. The cherry on the cake for me was a few days ago when she came to me and sat on my lap (not a frequent event!) and told me she really missed me when she was in college. I think it’s a funny kind of “miss me”–she likes to sit in her room (without her college roommate), do all her electronics at once, and know that I am down the hall in the apartment.
And then yesterday when we ate dinner before she left, we really talked.
We had had a very tough year and a half before she went to college. She had a devastating boyfriend situation toward the end of junior year and I really regret not insisting that she get some therapy. She bounced back pretty well in senior year but it all fell apart during college applications, and then my dad (her only grandparent) died in April the day after we went to accepted-parents day at her college, after six months of a deteriorating situation with him and my stepmother that required a lot of my time and emotional energy. After that things got worse and we had a terrible summer so although I feared the empty nest (it’s just her and me), it was kind of a relief not to worry about her, especially since the considerable burden of worry about my dad and stepmother were also gone. I adjusted pretty easily! 
Anyway, yesterday we talked through the whole time period before she left and what was going on with her at college. She did pretty well first semester but not well enough for medical school. I think she knows she’ll have to dial it up. Plus she’s starting a job and she has a harder course schedule, since bio and chem won’t be just a review of what she did in AP in high school. But I think it will be good for her to have a tighter schedule. Hope so!
She was very back-and-forth about communicating with me during the semester, complaining that I texted too much (which I did not!), and then calling me wanting to talk. I am SO not a telephone person! She said that her BF skypes with his parents every Sunday. Maybe we’ll do that.
@oldmom4896 I’m curious about your D’s job. We’ve been trying to get our S geared up to find something, but he’s not great with people or food. Campus jobs don’t seem plentiful. Very good that you got to have some good serious talking time with your D. And also glad that you were able to make the adjustment to an empty nest.
My S left about an hour ago after an enjoyable break spent mostly with us, other than five days with his GF. He only saw his high school friends once, partly because of his wisdom teeth surgery.
We Skype with him every Sunday – I’d be fine with half an hour but my H insists on an hour and S doesn’t seem to mind. I’m not a phone person either, Skype is a little better but I prefer briefer, more frequent text or Skype messages.