I was under the impression that as long as you didnt take college classes AFTER high school graduation (for example, the summer after), you’d be considered a freshman
@grandscheme – I don’t know the AP Physics C (Mechanics) teaching style at D18’s school but it always seems like I have to explain basic problem solving techniques to her. For example, if you’re working with 2d projectile motion, you can always treat each axis independently (i.e. if you need the time aloft, only work with the initial Vy component, stuff like that). I don’t know why they don’t hammer home that technique.
I also don’t know what happened with math back in the grade 4-8 period. Whatever it was, D18 ended up poorly trained in algebra and basic number crunching. I can’t tell you how many times D18 told me back then, “we don’t do it that way”, when she’d ask for help on homework. It’s shocking to me that she still has trouble dealing with terms containing different, complex denominators occasionally (e.g. 1/(1+x) is NOT 1/1 + 1/x). I will say that after a year of AP Calc AB and now a few months of AP Calc BC she’s finally getting algebra down to where she can do it in her head. This stuff should have been hammered home long ago. How can a kid do integrals of logs without knowing algebra fundamentals?
There’s an underlying “hollowness” to K-12 education these days. I went into engineering in college without ever touching calculus in HS yet managed to get As in engineering calculus and physics (the hard ones, everything else was a disaster because I was an idiot). This is just a year from now for my D18. My guess is that I had a solid foundation in algebra and trig from the slower pace in HS back in the dinosaur days.
Maybe D18 is a special case, I don’t know. I do know that when I scratched the surface with a question at a hands-on presentation with the advanced kids at D18’s HS a while back (in an area where I have some knowledge), I got blank stares in response. The representation of a number in bits and bytes is immaterial. What was important was that going from RGB to HSL meant that they could extract the “color” into H independent of the other information (not completely, but that’s a technoweenie issue).
One final note since I’m ranting. Apparently, AP Physics C still concerns itself with mixed units. On one thing today D18 mentioned that [something] only works if you’re working with kg and not pounds. Why would they teach anything other than the metric system in physics?!? I saw something similar in AP Calc AB last year. It’s completely stupid and has absolutely nothing to do with the concepts in either field. Of course, it makes for easy questions on an exam to trip up students.
@droppedit …I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about!
@droppedit, I wish my engineering program had spent far MORE time getting us comfortable working with English units and mixed units. The only engineering professors who made us work with mixed units were the ones with actual industry experience, because they knew that companies have to deal with mixed units all the time. Pipe diameter in inches, temperature in Celsius, tank capacity in gallons (or barrels in the oil field). Sure the equations are much nicer to deal with in metric units but if the student is destined for industry they need to be comfortable with English units or mixed, and they absolutely have to keep careful track of the units for everything. In my jobs there would be a real mess if I didn’t pay proper attention to the units, and this came into play from my first co-op job. At the time it seemed as if the professors were just being jerks trying to trip us up with mixed units, but that skill was so valuable in my work. Even at a high school level I see the value in students taking a step back and making sure the units are all playing nicely together, to make sure they’re looking at the entire problem instead of just picking out numbers and plugging and chugging along.
Somehow my smiley face didn’t show up. And I should have added anyway that I’m so happy that I don’t have to know what droppedit is talking about. Soooo glad I never have to take another science or math class in my life!
@droppedit OMG-don’t even get me going about math. Got involved fighting those battles at a national level after my fourth grade kid gave the answer to “estimate 12 x 8” as “96” and it was marked WRONG. The correct answer to the question should have been 100. Daughter gave the correct answer to the equation. To have a teacher tell my kid a correct answer was a wrong answer, in the name of “new math” frosted us big time. We are all for being open to better ways of doing things but we don’t support change for the sake of change without concrete data that the new methodology is more effective. 2 + 2 = 4. I don’t care how that makes you feel. I don’t care what day of the week it is when you try to do the calculation. 2 + 2 = 4. It just does.
@traveler98 – I totally disagree, especially at the HS level. Kids should be taught the concepts thoroughly because that’s what is important. The actual numerical representation is irrelevant at that level. I don’t even like the fixation on using “-g” in projectile motion because it results in yet another set of equations. Stick with “a” and plug in a negative constant to find the actual result. The first thing you do in industry (the real world, totally separate from the academic space) is methodically convert their idiotic units into metric and proceed from there. Otherwise, you end up with a billion dollar spacecraft crashing into Mars instead of landing in one piece!
@grandscheme – completely agree. I think we ran into something like that in ES (one of many issues). Both DW and I were aghast. There was some other thing with “grouping” but don’t remember the specifics. We were sitting there thinking, “just memorize the damn multiplication tables”, and you’re done! I think exhibit A in the math K-12 education disaster is the fact that many of the CA colleges are dropping Algebra as a requirement for getting a degree (I saw that here on CC).
@traveler98 - It very well could have been dual enrollment and not AP. I was just so surprised that they hadn’t figured all that out as far as what a “true” freshman would be I guess I didn’t ask any more questions than that. Seemed so bizarre to me to punish a kid for coming in with credits straight from HS.
@droppedit we must agree to disagree then. No hard feelings and we’re both entitled to our opinions. 
@amominaz still it’s an important topic to research before taking all the possible AP credit. I believe I’ve read some comments here on CC about AP credit affecting scholarships in later years at some colleges, so it’s something to consider. Just one more item for the college prep to-do list.
@grandscheme
When estimating sums, differences, products students are taught to round the number first, then add, subtract, or multiply. 8 rounds up to 10 and 12 rounds down to 10, so 10 x 10 = 100. The hard part for students is often missing that key word–estimate. Not sure I understand why it shouldn’t be marked wrong if the student gave the exact answer instead of the “estimate.”
I teach this math concept to 3rd graders. It’s not all that new cuz I’m pretty old! Of course, they have to learn their multiplication facts as well.
I cancelled the meeting with the principal, with DD’s blessing.
Thank you for listening to my rant. Upward and onward. :">
@vbv8dad, this is speculation/opinion, but I don’t think schools give much weight to the writing portion. Over the last several years I’ve seen more and more say they don’t consider it at all.
@grandscheme, when our S18 was in 1st or 2nd grade he had trouble with estimating the sum of 2 and 3 digit numbers because he could add them up in his head and get the exact answer. Perhaps the solution would be to make sure they are being able to estimate something they can’t do in their heads.
@droppedit, my D self studies AoPS . if she just relied on the teaching from her school she would most likely crash and burn in college.
My D is truly stuck on the essay. She is a good writer; English is her ‘thing’. But she is really frozen on this. She fought me on working on it all summer, gets in a tiff every time I bring it up. Now her AP lit teacher is making them write it (thank God).
Anyhow I looked at her rough ideas for topics and they are awful! She clearly has heard that it needs to be about her but she all about personal struggles and insecurities. How she can be socially awkward and has a hard time making friends. How she is a pleaser and from when she was little afraid of getting in trouble.
I want to scream NOOOO!!! You need to make them want you! She is really artsy and creative and passionate about things. But I walk such a careful line because I want to help her but she doesn’t want to hear it from me.
Deep breaths mom, deep breaths…
@swtaffy904 Those topics/ideas could still work if she turns them into “I’ve had my struggles and insecurities but I’ve learned how to move past them.”
My daughter wrote about a particular struggle she had that was driving her crazy (nothing earth shattering, but still big to her). She wrote her essay about it, but then towards the middle/end she transitioned it to a version of “I put my big girl pants on, overcame it, and that’s what I plan to do when faced with problems in the future.”
Way off topic… Today my S18 is 18. I’m feeling a little teary, proud… just trying to hold it together. This year is already going by too fast. 
@trish02 Happy Birthday to your son! Many happy returns of the day.
@trish02 don’t forget to have him register for selective service! If not it could mess up FA and future jobs that may involve the government.
@3scoutsmom, can you say more about that? I had no idea there was a process we had to go through to register for the draft, I thought it was automatic. Darn it! Every time I think the to-do list is getting shorter I find out more things I need to keep track of! S turns 18 later in September.