Well I guess the silver lining is that they are only saying they wonāt be utilized in admissions, but that leaves open their potential use for merit or honors applications.
This is seriously the wild west of college admissions now. I might have D21 find a super reach for ED1 if itās TO just to see what happens. Crazy!!
Apologies ā this got long!
Ok, finally got my S21 (engineering) to have a college conversation yesterday. First in a while; heās been avoiding. So Iāve posted below his current list.
Would esp. love any input on Iowa State, UIUC, Pitt, Lehigh, and WPI. In addition to overall vibe for these colleges, Iām especially interested in insights on any overcrowding (difficulty getting classes or housing) food/dorms, weeding out culture for engineering, prof quality, and financial stability of the colleges.
Iām including test optional info b/c heās only been able to take ACT once and didnāt hit his target score, 32, right out of the gate. He got a 29. Heās 4.0 in a top public w/ lots of rigor and decent, but not spectacular, ECs. We are ābubbleā family so donāt expect need aid; top budget is $50k so some of the privates will be out of reach w/o $$.
ON THE LIST:
LOW-MATCH / SAFETY?
Pitt ā No word on TO. Would have visited over Spring Break. Was thinking itās a safety but thatās when I thought heād get at least a 30 out of the gate. Seem to read good things about this place, but really donāt know a lot. Getting him to do a virtual tour. Rolling admissions so if he doesnāt get in, heād have to add another safety.
MATCH/LOW REACH:
NC State ā No word on TO yet. In-state, but heās just not very excited about it; too close to home mostly and he doesnāt like the campus feel. Heāll still apply. Itās def. not a safety ā the president of his high schoolās robotics team was WL this year which shocked everyone. My Sās GPA and rigor is stronger, but I still think he needs SS 32 to be in safer zone for engineering here.
UNC-Chapel Hill ā No word on TO yet. In-state. Iāll make him apply in case he changes his mind on engineering Spring of senior year. This moves to reach if they donāt go TO and he doesnāt get his score up; again needs a 32 to be safer.
Virginia Tech ā Test optional. He visited it last year and loved it. This is still his first choice. Itās getting increasingly popular so hard to know if itās low reach or reach, but the TO should help b/c they are saying they are ātest blindā not just test optional.
WPI ā Test optional (long standing). Would have visited over Spring Break. He likes the global focus and what he sees on the website. Would need merit which Iām more optimistic about from here than Case, but who knows. Iām a little worried about the STEM only nature of the college. What if he changes his mind on engineering?
REACH:
U Wisconsin ā No word on TO yet. Visited and liked, but not sure about upper midwest locale. With a 29 seems doubtful heād get inā¦
Case Western ā Test optional. Visited and liked, but Iām worried he wonāt get merit $$ weād need to put it in budget range, esp. if he doesnāt submit a score.
Lehigh ā No word on TO. Would have visited over Spring Break. Interested in IBE program, but I think this might drop off the list. Doesnāt seem likely heād get $$. Not sure the social scene or location would be good fit for him. But heās still interested.
POSSIBLE ADDITIONS:
ā Iowa State. Possible safety. If Iām reading the website correctly, heād get nice merit $$ even w/ current ACT. Seems like a cool town and strong engineering but need to learn more. But feels somewhat ārandomā to go there from NC?
ā UIUC ā Reach? He has a buddy there. Wants to learn more
ā Cornell ā Has a buddy there. He might throw this in as a high reach, but I think itād be more intense than he wants (see Carnegie Mellon below)
DROPPED FROM HIS LIST:
ā Carnegie Mellon ā Was planning to visit over Spring Break. It was a big reach anyway, and heās heard the vibe is very intense which he doesnāt want. He dropped it.
ā Clemson ā I think this is a good match, but canāt seem to get him interested.
@homerdog Iām guessing youāre not alone! D21 has been open to checking out some other reach schools because itās easy enough to do online. So far weāve virtually visited Amherst, which is not going on the list, and Bowdoin, which is. Bates is now in the mix as well, though itās awfully tough to pop over to Maine from hereā¦
I know ED would be a huge boost, but I canāt imagine her applying ED sight unseen, especially because she is already excited about 3 or 4 places with merit possibility (under normal circumstances, at least!). I think it will be hard for her to get that āI would rather be here than anywhere elseā feeling that she should have for an ED school without stepping foot on campus. More wait and seeā¦
@kbm770 well, obviously, S is at Bowdoin so let me know if you have questions. Not super easy to get there even from Chicago but mostly because weād like him to stick with SW airlines. He flies to Portland through Baltimore.Most of the time doesnāt have to change plans. So far so good on that. He has quite a few friends from the west coast. They make it work!
@AlmostThere2018 Iāll keep you posted if we do our Lehigh drive this weekend! I donāt know if it will be a fit for D, definitely a reach and being from Jersey makes it worse, I think. Her good friendās mom is a prof there, so maybe she can work some magic! LOL The reason I think it might not be a fit is because of the heavy Greek life. Sheās really not at all into that, but I think sheāll love the look of the campus (loved Colgate) and she does like to surround herself with smart kids. Doubtful sheād get in, more doubtful we could pay for it, but since itās close and weāve been shut down on our visits, weāll take a look!
VT admissions really seemed like a roller coaster this year! D would probably like it, but they donāt give out of state merit (at least nobody I know has ever gotten it - and one was a first gen minority Valedictorian) so we cant swing it. My neighborās son loves it, itās hugely popular here, but super crowded housing. Everyone I know went off campus sophomore year.
@AlmostThere2018 I was an engineering major at UIUC 30 years ago, so my info is probably a bit out of date, but I thought it was a great school.
We decided to be optimistic and take advantage of the low airfares and booked some trips for college visits in Sept and Oct - D wants to see Oregon State, NAU, and Utah/Utah State. Well not so much Utah but if we are going to be in the area for Utah State we should see the U as well. The flights are all on SW with points so fully refundable if we canāt make the trips. Hopefully they will all work out.
@NJWrestlingmom and @AlmostThere2018 my sister went to Lehigh back in the 1980s (started in a STEM major but then switched to something non STEM). Her oldest son also went to Lehigh (double majored and also minoredā¦business related fields) and just graduated in 2019 (he then stayed a 5th year this year as he did well enough for them to grant him a tuition free 5th year for a graduate degree). My sisterās experience is from a long time ago, but she loved it and was not in a sorority. She dated a guy who was in a fraternity, and she was a kid who probably enjoyed parties, Iād say. She grew up in the Boston areaā¦many of her Lehigh friends were from NJ/NY. My nephew who just graduated last year did not join a fraternity and also loved Lehigh - Iād say heās a kid who studies hard, enjoys social activities/friends, and is something of a go-getter. Heād have a few beers with friends but wouldnāt party over the top.
@NJWrestlingmom ā yes, do let us know what you think about Lehigh! And agree VT admissions was crazy this year. Based on what I saw and read, it seems like this cycle theyād already moved away from test scores which is why acceptances seemed somewhat random compared to what weāre used to seeing most placesā¦ Itās one of the public universities that likes OOS students for their $$. . .
@Johnny523 ā Glad you liked UIUC. Great to see that optimism with upcoming visits!
@nichols51 ā tks for insights on Lehigh. I really know nothing about it ā not a school on our radar until someone recommended the IBE program on CC.
@NJWrestlingmom I do live in Pittsburgh and actually graduated from Duquesne law school got married at the DU chapel. The campus is a confined campus but it is not like a traditional campus like Lehigh or UDel or Lafayetteā¦ Not a ton of green open spaces. More urban. You walk down a hill from the campus and you are about two blocks from downtown Pittsburgh. I would not worry about the catholic thing as it was never a thing for so many of the people that I know that went there.
Of course with any school it depends on what your D wants to studyā¦ Great health sciences, nursing, Pharmacy, etc. Great Music. Programs, very good business school. Being so close to the city and the world class health care providers make it even better from a standpoint of clinical education and internships.
Also I would mention that historically DU gives good merit money to offset its rather high private tuition. Most students donāt pay the sticker price.
Again depending on major match I would recommend a visit to see if the somewhat urban but confined campus is something that interests her.
@AlmostThere2018 I can tell you the Pitt is very good engineering school. I donāt know that OOS with 29 ACT you can consider Pitt a safety and Wisconsin a reach. In my mind for OOS Engineering they are kind of equal chances of admission. And I think depending on the other stuff on his application he stands a decent chance at both but I would not consider either a safety or reachā¦
Obviously Pitt is a very different campus environment than UNC, VaTech and Wisconsin. Pitt is an urban campus and the those three are not.
I donāt know anything about WPI or NCState. Lehigh would seem to be a reach and really only gives need based money.
Obviously I am partial to Clemson although it is expensive OOS.
My OOS state daughter would have died to go to UCN Chapel Hillā¦It would seem that in state tuition for that caliber of school would be hard to pass upā¦
Good luck to your son as he works through this maze of potential schools especially when we are not able to visit anything right now or retest to increase scores.
@burghdad ā yeah, youāre right. Most my Sās schools are pretty similar in stats ā so hard to differentiate.
I was thinking of Pitt as safety b/c of its rolling admissions. If he were to get in early, it could play that role just b/c heād have one admit in his pocket.
Iowa St. is more of a true safety ā he needs to learn more about it.
Really hope he can take the ACT again ā he needs a 31/32 for many of these colleges, or test optional is his best chance.
@AlmostThere2018 We havenāt visited Iowa State but kids do go there from our high school for engineering and love it. Great merit. Fun college town. And they get amazing jobs! The kids we know work in Chicago so youād want to check with ISU to see if they place mostly in the midwest or not. That might not be the case. It might just be that the kids we know wanted to stay in the midwest. The two students we know there (both female) had multiple offers and really loved their time there. They would have definitely been accepted at higher ranked schools but their parentsā budgets were a little restricted and they looked only at schools with merit.
@homerdog ā Appreciate your input! Ames makes a lot of lists as a great small college town and Iowa St. seems to check a lot of boxes.
The thing my S has noticed from his tours (glad he got some in!) is that with engineering the recruiting for first jobs tends to be regional. VT showed logos on its powerpoint with lots of companies from DC through Atlanta At Wisconsin and OH ā it was def. midwest firms they flashed up on the screen. So I bet youāre right about Iowa St.
(Of course, FB, Google, and Amazon seem to recruit from everywhere ā they are hiring machines.)
@AlmostThere2018 Just remembered that we know one more student at ISU. Heās from Pennsylvania but his dad is from Chicago. Heās was having just a little too much fun with his fraternity but I think heās turned it around now. Lol. Just letting you know itās not all Midwestern kids.
I wonder if itāll make it more complex for students to try to get into their usual target schools. Now they have to prove that their GPA and coursework is deserving of consideration since tests are optional.
On the flip side, I wonder if they will put any emphasis on test scores for those who had themāS21 for a 36 ACT. Heās thinking he may be punished because he got a B each semester 9-10th grade (straight Aās with 5 APās last semester) if scores are optional.
@burghdad Your child could check out coursera to take a high end class for no credits. My S21 is waitlisted at UC research program that is going online. Having trouble getting a community college class he needs due to a conflict for senior year. Itās all up in the air for us. If he canāt get the online class at our local CC, weāll have to find another online and maybe heāll also do a coursera class in something he is really interested in.
Also, heās volunteering for ZoomerstoBoomers senior grocery delivery once a week. Itās really a nice experience and teaches him a bit of adulting skills - shopping, calling them, making arrangements (Iāve helped the first two weeks so it goes faster). He would probably enjoy getting a paid job if he has time this summer but we may be in lock down for a while longer anyway. Iām not sure Iād want him working in a store or something when we start opening up. Hmm. People probably wonāt be looking to deal with interns either.
Also he is booked for the July ACT and Iām going to try to sign up for August when it comes up.
@MommaLue optional means just that - they will still look at the submitted scores. If you read Cornellās test optional statement, to me, itās not a blanket āwe donāt care about scoresā. I read it as more low-income kids and kids from rural areas get a pass. If youāre an upper/middle class kid from the 'burbs, I donāt think they want you going test optional. Again, just the way I read the release. I donāt see any world where a 36 is ignored.
@NJWrestlingmom I donāt think thatās what Cornell meant for TO this coming year. I understand that, before Covid-19, test optional at top schools was more for a disadvantaged group. Now, all juniors are disadvantaged. I think Cornell will consider all apps without scores this coming year, especially if the ACT and SAT going forward are only online.
My understanding of how test optional will work this year at schools that added it is that more weight will be put on everything else - rigor, grades, essays and recs. Think of it this way, if each thing on the app had a āscoreā from 1-5 and admissions averaged those scores, they could compare candidates. Kids with a score just have another category to āgradeā. So having no score doesnāt lower a studentās average āscoreā. Itās not considered.