@homerdog this section of the Cornell announcement, to me, says kids who have the option and means to take the test in Aug/Sept/Oct should be.
Despite waiving the requirement, the undergraduate admissions office also said that standardized test scores could still be a “meaningful differentiator” for students who live near or attend a school that will offer more testing this year or if students have not experienced a significant loss in income for one or more household providers.
@NJWrestlingmom but if no Aug/Sept/Oct tests are offered then many kids in “advantaged neighborhoods” still will not have scores. Our high SES suburb still has a ton of highly ranked kids who did not take a test for one reason or another. March tests were cancelled here.
And what does a student having a significant loss of income have to do with acceptance to Cornell? You mean, if a test is available near the student but the student couldn’t afford it then that’s a better reason than just not taking it? How will Cornell know why someone didn’t take a test? They are need blind.
I am curious as to what other parents think about what TO will mean for 2021 kids who already have high scores (1570+ SAT and/or 36 ACT, multiple 750+ or even 800 subject tests) and very high GPA (say, greater than 3.95 unweighted with very high rigor and multiple AP or equivalent).
I know it is a “first world problem” for sure, so I don’t mean to come off as insensitive or boasting. But for that group, it seems like their relative chances at the elite schools could go either way with the adoption of TO policies.
On the one hand, early high testing should count for something and would help strengthen any application, though perhaps not by much if we are also talking about high scores with very high GPA/rigor.
On the other, though, the absence of test scores from other strong GPA/rigor and strong EC kids should increase the size of that attractive pool of applicants, at least I think so. That would tend to diminish chances for the high test group, at least relative to what would have happened in the prior test required world.
Thoughts?
Just found out that D21 is being nominated for a top national award (EC related). Only two others in our region are nominated. Very happy for her. Even if she doesn’t win, the nomination should look good on her college apps. She also has another magazine featuring her (EC related) coming out in June. She worked so hard for the past three years, I am glad to see her getting public recognition.
Something I’ve been wondering about but won’t get an answer…just wondering…maybe those kids who have spent years doing difficult online programs AND in-person classes and succeeding in all forms of education will have a bit of an edge during this next admissions cycle over those who are only used to in-person learning…? That would apply to traditional schoolkids taking extra online courses (structured and graded by outside teachers/professors) from places like AoPS, Stanford OHS, CTY Online, etc as well as homeschoolers who take online courses and in-person dual credit classes. Also traditional schoolkids who take both in-person classes and online college classes. Etc. Demonstration that a kid can adapt and do well with all methods of learning (knowing how to seek out help on your own if a teacher isn’t available, how to connect with other classmates and taking the initiative to do so when an online 24/7 class discussion board isn’t provided, etc) might be a bit of an edge this coming admissions cycle. Again, just wondering out loud. And no, online does not always mean subpar (AoPS is by far the best math instruction and approach I have ever seen, for example). I would think Universities would really appreciate applicants that have already proven they can be flexible, adapt, and roll with things and still succeed with whatever method of learning they encounter.
IMO having a competitive test score at a given school will still be an advantage.
Schools that have recently gone TO may not be as facile at reading apps sans tests, as compared to schools that have been TO for a long time.
Generally, TO acceptance rates are lower than those with tests and I see no reason that still wouldn’t continue…unless we are looking at a complete breakdown of the testing process between now and when apps are due, leading to a very high proportion of students applying TO, say 50%+.
Obviously lots of moving pieces, and again, IMO and IME.
@OneMoreToGo2021 High scores are wonderful. I’m not saying they don’t count. Read my post above. It’s just that, given two kids with similar rigor/grades/ECs/essays, a high score on top of that won’t likely boost that student ABOVE a student with no score. They would likely both be admitted. I think a high score is a really good thing if GPA or rigor or ECs are a little lacking and can probably make up some ground there. It’s going to completely depend on the college.
High scores and high grades seems to be the best position, no downsides.
For those who do submit scores, is the holistic evaluation pretty much the same as in past years, or does a test-optional policy change the weight of factors even for score-submitting applicants? Does the answer depend on the percentage of applicants not submitting scores?
@homerdog I’m saying IF those Aug/Sept/Oct tests happen, Cornell will expect to see kids taking them. Cornell is a bit outside the box because they aren’t committing to TO; it’s a one time deal for them. I think, at Cornell. high test scores would be the deciding factor if another app doesn’t have them. But that’s probably Cornell specific.
I just don’t see a school, especially one that’s newly going TO, completely disregarding high scores. And not even 1550+. The kids I know currently at Ivies (or accepted and didn’t attend) scored more in the 1450 range.
My hope for D21 is that reps will read her app and want to admit her because she has all of the pieces they want. She’s not applying to HYP type schools or tippy top LACs. If anyone looked at her applications and knew her high school, they would assume she’s a relatively high scoring ACT/SAT student. Our high school’s profile shows something like 20% of the kids score 34-36 on the ACT. She will be in the top 10% of the class for GPA and her rigor is solid. For this year, at least, an AO will assume she didn’t get a chance to test (or at least not to test more than once) in order to get a score she wanted to send and they might also assume she could get close to that range since she fits the profile in every other way in her class.
That’s how we are looking at it right now. The highest 25%-75% range for ACT at the colleges she’s considering is 31-34 and some are 30-33. If the college looks at our profile, they are likely to assume D21 could fit into those ranges even without her sending a test. This only works this year because of the virus.
I think the colleges know which are the higher performing and/or more privileged high schools, and that kids from there had opportunities to test before covid cancellations (and if there are opportunities later, then). Doesn’t the SAT still have the Landscape (replaced adversity score)?
For instance, at our kids’ school, most kids have taken the SAT and ACT at least once, some got in more. Our S was an outlier in not getting in the ACT earlier due to sports conflicts. Now, most public school kids in our state don’t test until spring of junior year. So, most of those kids don’t have a test at all. And, we are a very poor state as well.
I think colleges still want as many apps as they can get(revenue/selectivity), and genuinely don’t want to disadvantage already disadvantaged kids.
So, I do wonder if kids from the more well known high performing schools won’t be disadvantaged by not sending in a score. Although, being full pay at this point for many schools may trump the lack of a score.
But, I don’t see how a high score, with high grades and everything else, could possibly do anything but help an applicant. Very few schools have said the “won’t” consider scores. And, most of them still want to report the high scores.
I don’t think any TO school disregards (currently or next cycle) test scores for applicants who submit them.
We are not in highly ranked suburban school district. S will be sending his score to all schools he applies even if they are TO, since I think that will help validate his high GPA and the rest of the app.
@Aguadecoco mine will send her ACT score too. It can only help her. She’s at a highly competitive magnet HS so class rank is less meaningful. If I remember correctly, you are in Texas like me. I’m reading “Your ticket to the 40 acres” and it’s stressing me out. UT Austin would be the best fit for D and we still have no idea of her class rank.
I was on a webinar last night with the Head of Admissions at GT. He said that he thinks many schools (GT is considering this) will want grade validation from the first couple of months of fall semester when kids are applying ED/EA. Apparently they are hearing schools are handling spring grading so differently (some schools saying that you can’t go any LOWER than you were when in class instruction ended but that you could INCREASE your grade) so they may want to see some early senior year grades.
^Thinking out loud, then what happens for high schools that don’t have quarter grades? As far as I know, the high schools in my area only have semester grades.
From my perspective (keeping an eye on Canvas), many teachers tend not to have complete grading early in the semester and the “grades” (using that term loosely) might be based primarily on a couple of pop quizzes. Grading opportunities that are typically not high-stakes may be overweighted by admissions. But, good to plan ahead for that, if there is a change for this year that causes high schools to release grades.
Makes sense, @nanosec . I wonder if it will be a case by case thing though, according to whatever explanation is included on the school report. Some schools are proceeding as normal with grading. D21’s two colleges where she takes her dual credit classes aren’t adjusting anything with grading, and her two online AP courses of course are proceeding as usual. Therefore her spring junior year grades aren’t affected at all.
I feel bad for admissions officers trying to figure all this out. They should get paid more for all they do, especially since most seem to put their heart and soul into their jobs.
I was thinking the same thing as he said it but he was just stressing not taking the foot off of the pedal with grades. We don’t have Q grades either. My guess is they will figure something out to validate.
I wonder if schools have any way of knowing if kids have taken a test (not the score, but just: this person has an ACT/SAT score).
The reason I ask is because way back when I was in college, I needed a transcript with my ACT score for my part time job (I did classes for Princeton Review and they had a minimum score requirement to work there) and I was shocked to see my SAT score on the same transcript. I scored higher on the ACT (32 vs an 1190 on the SAT) and I KNOW I only sent the ACT scores to schools. I’m still wondering how my SAT got there (did I give them authorization to pull it somehow in conjunction with AP scores?). I’m sure the privacy laws are more strict now than in the early 90’s, but still…
In normal times, colleges know that kids from certain states have taken tests because they are a state graduation requirement.
Some high schools put test scores on transcripts, some don’t. In some schools if you ask to have the test scores removed from the transcript they will.
We don’t have test scores on our transcripts. I checked last year. And @NJWrestlingmom we honestly have no idea how Cornell will use test scores. They have holistic admissions. If they are trying to even the playing field because of the virus then they will not admit one student with test scores OVER another similar student. I just don’t think it’s supposed to be a tie breaker. It doesn’t work like that. They will look at each student individually.
I’ve heard a number of AOs from T20 schools say that they never judge what is NOT on an app. In most cases they were talking about kids reporting or not reporting AP scores. If someone reports strong AP scores, great. If they do not then they do not assume low AP scores. Maybe the student didn’t take the test. Now that some schools are going TO, they will look at ACT and SAT scores the same way. They aren’t going to say, oh you’re from a wealthy neighborhood and you probably took a test before March and did poorly. They cannot assume that. What if the student studied and was ready to go for the Dec test but then got sick? My point is that having a high score will add to an app but not having a score at all isn’t supposed to be held against a student if a school is TO.
The percentage of TO applicants accepted will also depend on how many kids apply TO.