Parents of the HS Class of 2021 (Part 1)

Parents of HS Class of 20xx
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Like so much in admissions, submitting test scores falls within a “it depends” situation - as of now, many juniors have not taken the ACT and SAT and it is unknown if the tests will be made available this year. The College Board and ACT are big businesses and will continue to figure out a way to test students and remain relevant.

My thoughts (and I could be wrong and it won’t be the first time- just ask my kids!) is that if testing is available in the late summer/early Fall - colleges will continue to see applicants submit test scores. Even going test optional - it has never meant test optional outside of a very small number of applicants and was a policy designed to assist non-traditional college applicants, lower income and underrepresented students.

NYU received over 80,000 applications for undergrad each year - this is an extreme number - but how do you sort and have the time for a pure holistic review? Also, students from large public schools are at a disadvantage obtaining recommendations with counselors serving too many students and teachers have large class sizes - how can those recommendations really be true to the student and putting more weight on these when they will be so uneven across schools is difficult. Add to the fact that current Jr year spring grades will be all over the place with different policies.

Colleges place students in their Honors Programs, assign Merit Dollars, use test scored for admittance into specific schools (ie: Comp Sci) and also there is National Merit distinction - all currently designed to use test scores. All this would need to be reconfigured if colleges move away from testing and let in more students without test scores.

Also, colleges benefit by announcing they will be test optional - application numbers go up (already see how many people have mentioned maybe my child will now just apply to more competitive schools to see what happens), US News ratings go up and they still end up admitting students with scores at a much higher percentage vs students without scores. (Look at U Chicago numbers or Wesleyan - both test optional schools).

For the Wesleyan 2019 class - 63% of admitted students submitted the SAT and 39% of admitted students submitted the ACT. Yes the math doesn’t work, as some candidates submit both sets of scores. So, with the double submitting - I can’t tell how many students DID NOT submit scores were actually admitted - but the number can not be large.

I am still encouraging my child to prep and move forward that there will be testing later this year and not become unmotivated by hoping they will be one of the lucky test optional applicants. Our schools college counselor sent out an email with some of the information I used and said all juniors should continue studying for the tests unless your counselor had made a different recommendation. It is too early to tell if test optional will really be test optional.

We can all go crazy speculating how much it has changed for our Class of 2021 - but we know colleges need students, students want to go to college and a process that we have very little control over just gave us even less control :frowning: Not easy on us parents!

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@coffeeat3 - do you really think that they look at all those 80,000 holistically? I think there is an initial cut using their criteria – and then, once that’s sorted, a holistic review can really begin for those left. I remember reading an article that said that AOs typically spend something like 15 minutes per application.

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I agree with you - I don’t know how they could (I used NYU as the most extreme example) as to why I think test scores will still matter.

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I just cannot tell D21 she needs to start studying again for the SAT when the earliest one will be Aug. she has prepared for the ACT in a big way twice with less than stellar results. And then studied like mad for the March SAT that didn’t happen. She’s frustrated to say the least. We are waiting until mid-June to see how things looks and if the Aug SAT looks likely. We will make sure she’s up and running again for six weeks before whatever test she can take but I doubt we will bother if they are just online.

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From the Cornell press release - Wall Street Journal:

“This emergency guidance for applicants during 2020 does not intend to suggest conviction at Cornell that future examinations can’t help us to evaluate candidates and predict their college success,” the school said in a notice added to its admissions website on Wednesday.

The school said it still expects to receive test scores from many students, and scores could be “a meaningful differentiator” for those who live near or attend schools that are open for testing or whose families didn’t lose income or face other hardships this year.

This is the point I was trying to make in my long post - guess I should of just left it to the PR folks :smile:

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So basically Cornell’s TO is more like the U Chicago TO model…and just for this year. That’s the only school I’ve seen so far that has called out low income as a reason to go TO. And I don’t get why they don’t extend it to anyone who couldn’t get to a test. Just because you have money doesn’t mean your testing wasn’t affected by the virus.

I’m really not talking about just our D who, indeed, has had a rocky time with standardized tests. There are definitely kids out there in good school districts who would score very high on their first test but didn’t plan to take it until March. Guess Cornell doesn’t want to give those kids a holistic review without a score. Too bad for Cornell.

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My kid’s HS only has semester grades but my D20 applied EA to a school this year that required first quarter grades. It was extra work but our GC sent out a report to the school about what D20’s grades were as of the middle of the semester and then both of D20’s professors for her DE courses sent an email to the school about her grades. So, it’s a hassle, but doable.

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I agree more colleges will ask for Senior grades and more ED/EA deferrals for kids on the cusp. Of course, if there’s any disruptions from COVID this fall that impact high schools (hybrid courses, staggered schedules to promote social distancing, etc.) then some districts may continue with P/F options – who knows?

Bottom line is there’s going to be even more uncertainty and likely even more seemingly arbitrary admissions decisions next year. We should manage our and our kids’ expectations accordingly.

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I’m another who’s high school only has semester grades, but my D20’s ED school required 1st quarter or in-progress. Her counselor was not at all surprised, so they must deal with it often. He basically sent her teachers an email a week before letting them know he would be sending in progress grades as of XYZ date. That allowed them to double check that the grade book was current.

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Ha – that’s funny! My D20’s GC was totally surprised and had never done it before. We were stressed out about it because she was skeptical and asked for the phone number of the AO to verify that it was really necessary. :-/ My D20 was worried that it would not get done on time and she would be deferred to RD. Luckily, that didn’t happen. So, I suppose it depends on your school.

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Hi-I started a thread about uploading work for the online AP tests (Calc BC, Physics C) but haven’t gotten any responses. My understanding is that she needs to take the test on the same device that she uploads-so needs to have a clear picture. Part of the issue appears to be a slow internet connection? Does anyone here have suggestions?

My D is preparing for the new AP tests to be taken at home. She is doing an assignment through college board that she thinks will resemble the actual test. In the practice, she is given a question to answer and not able to move on until she uploads her work (takes a picture) within 5 minutes. She has a school issued chromebook which she says does not give a clear picture. She is trying to take a picture from my phone (apple 8) but it was taking too long. Any advice on how this can work or if she is understanding it correctly that she needs to upload something within 5 minutes on the actual test day. She gave up and is going to scan her work today, but she doesn’t think that is an acceptable option for the actual test. I’m not sure that taking a picture from my phone is an acceptable option either. Does anyone understand this? Thank you.

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D21 just took her final exam this morning for AP Calc BC (and D23 took the final for AP Calc AB - both have the same teacher). The tests were created as closely as the teacher could figure out would best simulate the actual AP exam, right down to having to upload within 5 minutes. All her tests mimic actual AP exams, but this one of course was a bit different with the FRQ-only and open notes. (BTW open notes does NOT mean it is easy - I don’t know why some seem to think that – D21 texted me afterward and said it was a much more difficult test than any her teacher had ever before given…I guess to make up for the open notes thing…and that if this was the way the AP exam was going to be then she is depressed already over her future score…the test may as well have not been open notes because there really isn’t any time to use those notes…you either know your stuff and can move quickly or you don’t and you can’t finish due to time). She gets back from her father’s (where she is now) tomorrow afternoon and I can ask her about the technical issues and relay what she says.

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@1Lotus S took an FRQ Physics C test today and uploading his answers was a nightmare! Each part of each question requires you to upload a separate picture, so he had to take about eight pictures for a single problem! This was not possible on his school Chromebook because as your D said, the photo quality was so bad. Instead, he used an iPad to take the pictures and email them to himself on his Chromebook. Then he had to save those eight files and upload them onto the assignment. It would be so much easier if they just made you upload one file instead of eight! I can’t imagine CB making students go through this procedure for the AP exams…

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Interesting perspective on full-pay families benefiting the most from this year’s TO policies:

https://thecriticalreader.com/coronavirus-test-optional/#more-16237

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@3kids2dogs Based on the unsolicited mail my D21 has received from places like Harvard, U. Chicago, Hopkins etc. the schools seem to know that my daughter has tested. In fact this week she received materials from Harvard. The first 2 sentence of the cover letter said “Have your you considered Harvard. Your strong test scores indicate that Harvard and other selective universities may be a good fit for you.” So they are apparently getting the scores or at least a range the kids fall into.

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@JanieWalker @VeryFishyFish Thank you for your responses!! It is somehow comforting to know that we are not the only ones who are nervous about the technology part of the test. I got a detailed response from D’s Calc teacher and a nice phone call from her Physics teacher to answer most of our questions. D thought that she had to test on a secure device, so not able to use a phone pic or scanner, but her teachers think that is not the case…so that is at least better. Now something that we can’t control so much is internet speed in our neighborhood. I also requested from the Physics teacher that I would like to know what to do if student has trouble uploading in the 5 minute time…call teacher? I want to know different scenerios of things that could go wrong…so if it happens, what should the student do. I feel confident that D knows her stuff as well as last year when she scored well and I don’t want an internet connection or other technical difficulty to ruin her chance of scoring well again this year. We will be watching for further instructions from the school, but the tests are quickly approaching, so I wanted a plan asap :slight_smile:

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@burghdad My S21 received that same letter from Harvard nd I was surprised that they admitted they saw his scores. I asked S about it and he said that when he took the ACT in Feb there was a box that if you check it allows schools to view your scores.
I had no idea schools did this. Silly me.
I “think” other recent ones were Brown, Hopkins, Williams, Duke and Vandy. I typically throw most away but now wish I had read them more carefully.

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Both ACT and CB sell student names and info which includes test scores to colleges. Colleges can define what they want: first gen, zip codes, test score ranges, etc.

I think students can opt of that by checking a box to not share their info when they register for the test (but I am not sure about this any more).

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My D21 also got that Harvard mailing. She was annoyed because she “unsubscribed” from all Harvard mailings (both snail mail and email) over a month ago. They must have separate lists that they work from.

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I thought the student could indicate if they wanted the scores sent to a particular school. But it does make sense colleges are buying information like that with all the stuff the kids get from schools.

The question is if they know who took the tests and at least a range if not the exact score how does that impact the applicants who took a test and then choose not to submit a test score. Do they put up a Chinese wall of sorts between the marketing department of the admissions department that knows test was taken and the score and the admissions officers, admission committees/