Indeed. I’m of the view that if someone is 17+, its usually best for them to figure out the solution/learn the hard way unless he/she takes the initiative to ask for help him/herself.
deb922, The woman who wants me to be friends showed up at a very large holiday dinner party 75 minutes after our last guest had arrived. I had waited and was in the middle of putting the main dishes out. It was unbelievably disruptive. She stated, “We decided to drive up mountain to see the snow”. No apology.
That was the last time we have invited them when we are having anyone else over. This was just a repeat of many
times making us wait. And if they decide to show up early they are in the mist of eating their appetizer and have had a drink. This when we show up right on time. Normally we pick them up (which is on the way) if we go out with them.
H really enjoys the H and while they get together alone there are times they want all of us together. And she is delightful most of the time–once she shows up.
My MIL once asked me 18 (or was it 27?) questions within 2 miles while I drove her to the airport. I counted.
Mainly, I just have no contact with her. The family sees this as inquisitive and are beginning to find it annoying. I see it as rude and annoying and always have seen it that way.
I did not speak up years ago (and wish I had) and now I just never see her (H does) so not worth getting into as she is 95.
I find it interesting as to how some behaviors like this one seems so obvious to me and yet others viewed her
behavior very differently–but no longer. Also, they grew up with it.
He has been staying with them to regroup, nothing went as they had expected because he acted so immature! They asked him to move out, that is a work in progress, we’ll see if it happens on deadline.
@oregon101 she probably wants to be friends with you because she’s alienated all of her other friends.
And don’t you wonder about the husband. Is he a part? He must have some culpability as he drove to the mountains to see the snow. Or in my bil’s case, he allowed her to ride her bike when he knew they had dinner plans. Allow isn’t the right word, I don’t know what the word would be. My H would have been apololeptic if I had done that.
In my bil’s case, he makes himself very remote from his wife’s dealings. I think it’s his way of coping. They also live very separate lives most of the time. It’s really hard to describe the relationship.
My sister asks a million questions, many are very intrusive. I hate when we have family gatherings and my kids have brought a new date. I tell them to warn their partners and try to avoid it if they can.
At a point I had a young man living far to long in my basement room, and had to resort to passive aggressive techniques to get him to move out, as the direct approach was not effective. The dependency was not helping him in any way. “I need that room for Thanksgiving visitors.” He was out, and I was much relieved.
PA approaches vs direct tend to be a regional difference. Living in the Midwest where Garrison Keillor made a career of lampooning PA styles, it is hard to avoid, and too much direct communication does not help win friends and influence people. This is situationally dependent of course. Sometimes I am much relieved by NY style directness, as it brings out those qualities in me and I find the freedom to be honest refreshing.
I am reading some of these threads and I am just shaking my head. Yes, many of you are much better people than I am; there I have said it.
The older I get, I really make a concerted effort to exercise restraint not to be passive aggressive toward others because I do not have the inclination to be on the receiving end of this tomfoolery.
Oh I have seen my share of passive aggressive behavior especially on the express bus in the morning trying to go to work and are stretched out over the bus like they are on their living room couch and I have paid my $6.75 and would like a seat.
It is at these times that I am grateful to work in day high school because my clap back game is on point, especially if I think that you are trying to come for me.
I will also let you know in no uncertain terms that you can try to be passive aggressive with me if you want but my aggression will not be passive
@Kajon wrote
I would keep my mouth shut and let your grown daughter choose her own outfits. The conversation should never play out. She’s a grownup; she doesn’t need your unsolicited “help” in picking out an outfit, in my opinion.
If she asks you, then that’s a different story. D17 came down the stairs yesterday and she said “do you think this looks ok for meeting bf’s parents for the first time?” I said “you look great, but maybe do a dressier top for meeting the parents the first time.” She nodded her head and said “yeah, I thought it might be too casual for meeting them for the first time” and went and switched to a nicer top.
There’s a kid in my ceramics class who, for whatever reason, hasn’t bought his own tools yet, after more than a week of classes. He asked to borrow mine today and I simply said “you need to buy your own tools. I haven’t even used some of these yet.” And he (foolishly) persisted and said “that’s not very nice”, and I said “it’s not nice to sponge off of other people, either, so I guess we’re even.” Seriously, I loathe passive aggressive behavior, and with the exception of my mother in law, I don’t tolerate it, either.
I am wondering if people would call these types of examples passive aggressive:
- I’m driving somewhere with someone and say, in advance, 'it usually takes 45 minutes to get there. Let’s leave at X time (45 or 50 minutes before we need to be there). The person agrees. We hit bad traffic and arrive late. The person says, ‘I was surprised when you suggested leaving at X. I would have left earlier.’.
- I’m traveling with someone and we have decisions about nonstop vs. a layover but a significant price difference or some other decision regarding hotel location which has pros and cons, etc. and express an opinion and receive either a noncommital response or acceptance of some kind. Same as #1: if something goes awry or the location presents a problem, I hear something like, “well, I wouldn’t have made that decision”.
I have someone in my life (I guess I’m lucky it’s just one) who does this and it both results in me feeling badly and angry. I have pointed it out to the person, asking the person to be more clear when we’re making decisions or plans and the person looks at me blankly and has a hard time understanding what the problem is. It doesn’t happen often and I don’t see any P-A behavior other than in this type of post decision-making in which something isn’t quite right. I wonder if this person just doesn’t tend to listen all that well and then doesn’t have a good filter/social sense when something becomes problematic.
Definitely irritating but doesn’t happen too often. I’ve gotten better about trying to get more than a quick “sure” – more buy in – when planning but, still!
Yes. The blank look is classic. AND how frustating!
Maybe this is just a situational thing for this individual and you can develop a way to communicate in this
type of situation.
But I wonder if you look more closely at different interactions that you might find other PA ones.
Hopefully not.
AND you are lucky if it is just one as I seem to be like ants to honey. I do understand why and am well on my way to dropping this piece of drama from my life.
So, “the woman who wants to be friends” ;
accepted our Brunch/ hike invitation for Sunday.
But no! It is their turn (no it is not) so how about Friday at their house. We are to available so how about
Saturday and so on and so on. It is never simple.
A number of friends and I make plans 5-6 weeks ahead and we just show up. At most a text to check in
@collage1,
I would say something like, “If you don’t speak up at the time you don’t get to complain later!” every time they tell you they would have made a different decision. Repeat the same words each time and hopefully it will start to sink in that you don’t appreciate their retroactive criticism.
“The person says, 'I was surprised when you suggested leaving at X. I would have left earlier”
With guys I know, the response is usually a good laugh followed by, “Yeah right! You don’t get to play that card - you totally agreed with the plan at the time.” Well usually there’s an affectionate bit of mild name-calling at the end for punctuation, like “dumb…” That’s to let them know that they’re being a “dumb…” I don’t think that works for women though.
Just kidding around a little there (although I’ve actually seen similar conversations a few times). Comments like that are annoying but I suspect I’ve been guilty of them as well without really thinking it through.
RE: the 2 examples in post 87, to me they aren’t examples of PA as much as a passive, indecisive person who can’t make a decision themselves but is quick to blame. To me, true PA behavior has that “gotcha”, intentional element to it. But, yes, annoying nonetheless.
Re Post #87, that sounds more like “gaslighting” where the other person acts like you did something that you know you didn’t do, or otherwise causes you to second-guess yourself.
I agree that passive-aggressive behavior is more common in women and in the South and Mid-West where more assertive behavior is seen as “not nice.” It can be summed up in the Southern expression “Bless your heart” which really means “F*** you.” But even that is too direct, so the more common usage is in speaking of someone else, “Bless his heart,” which means “I despise him.”
Interesting to think about the geographical contributions to whether one leans toward more direct or more passive aggressive behavior as well as our tolerance/intolerance for it. Obviously I think how you were raised and your home environment has an impact but I could see where regional social norms could play a role.
I am a direct type and was born and raised in the Northeast. That said, there’s a certain type of NYC bluntness that belongs in its own category as I was reminded spending yesterday there. 
You’d probably be more shocked by the NYC of the early '90s and before.
NYC of the last decade is extremely genteel compared to the one of my childhood and teen years.
I wouldn’t be because I spent much time in the city in the 70s through 90s. The lack of filter still catches me off guard at times, though.
@jeannemar Interesting you translate that phrase as “I despise him”. I’ve only lived in the south and I have heard it used more as “how naive of them” or “they don’t know any better” but never with malice. Clearly YMMV.
Even after reading all these PA examples I’m still not clear on a definition. I’m very non confrontational but I’ve become more aware and understand where this originated. The common factors I do see in this behavior are subtle manipulation, denial of responsibility and passive bullying.
Quiz:
So Person A says to person B, “person C is very frugal”. When asked for an example person A states that
C only uses cloth napkins and uses rings so each person can reuse them.
Does person A mean:
- She is frugal and she does not want to spend money on paper napkins. OR
- She is frugal and you are not because it was recently discussed that the napkins you use are very thick and nice and seems a waste of money in person A's opinion.
Person B gets to interpret this…
I would think that person A is saying that person C is frugal by trying to save on laundry costs by not washing napkins after each use. It would never occur to me to take personal offense to a comment like that.
Also, if you didn’t understand what the person meant, why wouldn’t you just say, “What do you mean? Can you clarify?”
ETA: I vaguely remember there being some sort of joke about napkin rings going around in 1987 when I registered for wedding gifts. Something like “don’t register for napkin rings because people will think you are too cheap to wash your napkins after each use.” I never got the joke then, but it is weird that is being used as an example now of someone’s cheapness. That was definitely some silly piece of advice someone gave me, and it was meant to be silly.
I always thought napkin rings were purely decorative!
But, I do know some people that don’t wash cloth napkins for every use for family members. It has less to do with frugality than with being environmentally conscious and for water conservation for the folks I know who follow this practice.
I agree with @nottelling - when in doubt about what someone means, ask.
Reminds me of one of my favorite scenes from The Odd Couple:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvTwv5o1Qs