Penn State frat suspended over Facebook page with nude pics

“I’m disgusted by this whole situation. I recently put down my deposit at Penn State but if serious action isn’t taken I do not want to go to a school where this is considered okay. It’s sexual abuse and everyone involved should be expelled.”

In my opinion, Penn State is going to say nothing for as long as they can. They will claim that they are allowing the system to work. They may even work with the police to make the whole thing fade away. This seems to be their MO.

The last president of Penn State has been indicted on numerous criminal counts for covering up a crime to protect Penn State. For a replacement they chose the person who seems to be experienced at doing something similar at FSU. I think there is almost no chance he will do anything proactively.

If there are no convictions, he will avoid taking action if he can sweep it under the rug.

Did the President ask any students with knowledge of this or other wrongdoing to come forward? Not in the announcement I heard. He doesn’t want them to come forward. Did he thank the person who bravely reported this? No. He did not want it reported.

Ultimately, does it make any difference?

If he thinks that this is something that CAN be rationalized, he needs to be informed otherwise in a way that penetrates his consciousness in a meaningful way.

It is interesting that people behave differently when in a group than if they stood and acted alone. The group mentality often makes people feel less accountable for their actions. The same way that mob mentality works.

This is not an isolated incident. I’m glad its out in the open. Maybe the repercussions will act as a deterrent to others. I hope so.

The president of Penn State DID say that if anyone has information they should come forward and provided a phone number and such.
They’re protecting the whistleblower(s) but I hope there’ll be no negative repercussion for him/them.
However, the fraternity brother who said "everyone does it " (not an exact quote but the gist) probably meant “all fraternities/chapters do it”… and that’s a huge problem if this is endemic to that fraternity accross the country, or all fraternities (or some fraternities) at Penn State.
I agree with sax: this is not an isolated incident, it can’t be.
The fact they pulled down the first page after it was discovered by a girl added to the fact this was a “secret” facebook page indicate they clearly knew it was wrong AND actionable; that they intended on doing it anyway; that it was done over a long period of time.

Yes “they all do it” All clubs at Penn State have a secret page. Its for communication about events, dues and upcoming birthdays. My daughter’s group has one at PSU as does my other daughter’s sports team at her college. No big deal and nothing to hide. I have seen them. They have showed it to me so I can see harmless photos of events or performances. Not even remotely close to what the frat boys used their group for.

Let me be clear, this is in no way is just a Penn State Incident.

It came to light at Penn State. Good. They should be all over this with their new and improved rules on abuse. They should be ready to deal with this.

But if you think this is not happening all across the US and the world you would be mistaken. Fraternities, athletic clubs etc.

This isn’t just a Penn State issue, this is an issue with groups that have a sense of entitlement or where the ‘group think’ is that whatever they want to do goes, it is true for fraternities, it is true for fraternal groups of varying sorts (anyone ever read about what went on at the Tailhook convention in the 80’s, of Navy personnel and veterans of the navy, grown men, including high ranking brass…)

Sax hit the nail on the head “It is interesting that people behave differently when in a group than if they stood and acted alone. The group mentality often makes people feel less accountable for their actions. The same way that mob mentality works.”

That is exactly the problem, groups create a ‘group mentality’ that often can absolve people from individual moral actions, it is much the same thing as people who compartmentalize…it is why mobs are dangerous, and why incitement to riot is a major crime, because it hinges on mobs.

I think because these incidents involve aspects of the mob mentality/group mentality, I think that in some ways there needs to be collective punishment. While I think that the ultimate penalties under the law or in terms of being expelled should be on an individual basis, group punishment in this case should be warranted as well. In the military, if a member or members of a unit do something wrong, they will punish the unit, and the idea is sound, it tells the members of the group they are responsible for each other, and as a result they know to self police because if a buddy does something wrong, they will pay, too. I don’t know what an appropriate group penalty would be, could be anything from a semester to year long ban on having parties, not being able to be involved in intergreek events (sports, etc), or perhaps other sanctions if the incident is aggregious enough. The idea is to make the frats and other groups understand that they won’t be able to hide behind “I didn’t do it”, it makes them literally their brothers keepers; if the problem is group think, the answer is making the group responsible for what happenes.

That said, I don’t agree that the kids involved didn’t know what they were doing was wrong. I don’t argue that kids are sexualized, but in this day and age along with all the sexual images, kids are also awash in issues like date rape, they see and hear alot more then we did when I was growing up, and the basic issue here isn’t about sex per se, it is the issue of non consensuality, of doing something to someone against their will.

And let me add something else, the kind of thing we see here is not new, this is not something because of the internet or porn, this kind of crap was going on in frat houses way, way back, Animal House was a lighthearted version of the “Animal Frat”, and back then if you think the Neidermeyer frat wasn’t doing stuff like this, I have a bridge to sell you. I have read accounts of what happened to girls at frats at places like Harvard going back into the 20’s, where the girls were shamed by what happened to them then, the misbehavior back then wasn’t all putting fizzies in a swim meet swimming pool…the fact that they have the internet and such only makes what they are doing more easy to do, but you can bet back in the day that some of the ‘brothers’ shared pictures of women passed out and nude, or relished things like having their way with a girl out of it,probably as a group…the only difference today is that when these incidents happen, they aren’t covered up, in the old days many frat members were privileged kids where money made the problem go away, and schools would cover it up as ‘boys will be boys’.

For the poster who said they wouldn’t go to PSU because of this, I would rethink that. It doesn’t mean I think the administration of PSU has necessarily done enough to reign in the animals, but it would be kind of idiotic to asssume the whole school is this, lot of good kids go there, they have some great programs, and believe me, having dealt with the administration of my own school, they are all political, they all would rather problems went away, so don’t think this is anything different than other schools…

Must read. History of fraternities, explanation of the relationships between universities and fraternities, and a description of the legalities of risk management within fraternities. I may post this little gem on every fraternity thread.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/02/the-dark-power-of-fraternities/357580/

@eastcoascrazy, it is an interesting article and has been posted on other threads several times.

@musicprnt, I think that the collective portion of the punishment should be shuttering the chapter. Usually, schools close them down for 4 years, so that all involved are gone. At that point they might consider reopening it. Of course, in this instance it is complicated by the fact that PSU doesn’t own the house and it isn’t on campus…the national, if there is one, should be stepping in.

I think that article answers so many questions, it should be required reading.

I did not know enough about college culture to give specific warnings to my daughters that differed from my concern when they were in high school.
But threads like these make me glad that there are many schools to choose from that do not have fraternities or sororities. Neither one of their schools did.

I don’t understand how it could happen more than once that the punch is spiked at a fraternity party. How could one accept this among other young men that members consider to be their “brothers”? The fact that it’s something every college woman has to worry about every time she attends a fraternity party is a very poor testament to the value of fraternities.

I miss the good old days. Yes I’m ancient. I remember frat parties just being fun. The drinking age was 18 so there was always a keg. No hard liquor. Hard to drink so much tap beer that you are at the point of blacking out. The fraternity house at my college looked out for the girls who drank too much. They did not abuse them or take advantage of them. I don’t know but maybe it was because at my school most of the students were middle class and there was not a feeling of entitlement amongst the brothers. Maybe it was the school only had 1200 kids that it was hard to hide bad behavior. Its too bad that things get ruined.

You don’t have to drink a lot. All it takes is one Mickey Finn.

Sorry don’t know what that is … Which is my point !

I’m sure a lot of people didn’t know what it was either. :-"

A mickey finn is basically a knockout drug (someone must have read a lot of old detective stories!:). These days probably not chloral hydrate or the like, probably a roofie (which I can’t spell the actual drug’s name), which doesn’t knock the person out but makes them pretty much a zombie, or possible ecstasy . There is an irony to all this, the stereotypical frat boy type holds themselves out to be some sort of elite for belonging to a fraternity (and I realize that is just that, a stereotype), yet if they are all so wonderful how come they have to knock a girl out to have a chance at being intimate? Doesn’t sound like much of a person to me, and definitely not a man, not in any sense of the word, just an over entitled jerk, enabled probably by mom and dad, by a group of ‘brothers’, into thinking he could do what he wants when he wants.

Oh, sorry. A Mickey Finn is the phrase my dad used when he warned us about doctored drinks. I don’t know what the current term is. I don’t know the history of it, but it’s likely that it came from detective stories. They were quite popular when my dad was young.

“There is an irony to all this, the stereotypical frat boy type holds themselves out to be some sort of elite for belonging to a fraternity (and I realize that is just that, a stereotype)”

??? God, you people are just so weird over this. No one thinks that they are “elite” for being Greek. If they do, they’re losers so who cares what they think? It’s a freakin’ social club. Nothing more, nothing less.

Another week…another fraternity or two…

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/fraternities-suspended-nc-state-amid-investigations-29777509

http://www.wral.com/news/local/image_gallery/14526655/