<p>I know of two incredibly high achieving perfectionists. In both cases, the parents had to intervene to stop the perfectionist behavior. </p>
<p>The quest for the SAT 2400 is not usually about perfection but ambition: ambition to get into the most selective schools, insecurity about achieving that ambition. Not wanting to settle for anything less than HYPSM is not perfectionism; it’s misplaced ambition.</p>
<p>I routinely tell my AP students that all I expect of them is their best effort on any given day. I also recognize that their best today may be a fraction of their best tomorrow and vice versa. The same is true of me as a teacher. </p>
<p>Still, while having 100% of my students get a 3 or higher on the AP exam for example, is probably not a realistic goal it’s what I am working toward each year. The realist in me allows me to accept the scores at their face value, and to be happy and proud for those students who earn a score that reflects a sincere effort regardless of what it. It also enables me to accept that some students are going to have a bad day on test day or allow their nerves to get the better of them and that’s ok too.</p>
<p>The only scores that bother me are the ones that reflect and observable lack of effort throughout the course of the year. That includes the kid who gets a 3 while doing virtually nothing all year when any effort at all would have resulted in a 4 or 5.</p>
<p>Marite, didn’t you go to Harvard? (Or was it your kid? Or both. I’m forgetting.) Why is it misplaced ambition for a kid to want HYPSM and not <em>want</em> to “settle” for someplace else? Obviously, if they are amongst the majority who don’t get in–many of whom, as adcoms often point out, are as qualified as most of those who do get in–they will have to go somewhere else, and one would hope they would come to terms with that. But I don’t see how that makes their ambition a negative.</p>
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<p>My older son used to waste endless time on coming up with the perfect sentences for spelling words. Luckily he grew out of it.</p>
<p>Both I and S went/is going to Harvard. Neither of us set going to Harvard as our goal. S drew up a list of schools that had his major and offered the possibility of taking graduate courses to undergraduates. He took the SAT once. In fact, had he been a perfectionist, I would never had allowed him to take advanced classes in k-12. He needed to be challenged and we agreed that he could take very advanced classes as long as he was comfortably in the middle of the pack, i.e. getting Bs. If at any time he felt overwhelmed, he could drop the class altogether or drop down a level. I would never want him to kill himself getting perfect grades (and he did not). </p>
<p>As I said, I know two perfectionist high achievers. When one of them was in 7th grade, she used to do several drafts of first drafts of reports/essays. Her mom told me she literally had to tell her to stop and go to bed. When she got to high school, she was not satisfied with the comments she got from her AP teacher (in 9th grade) and would take her papers back to her 7/8 grade teacher for more hard-hitting comments. The desire to excel had nothing to do with wanting to get into HYPSM and everything with her particular personality. Ditto with the other student who actually landed in hospital from exhaustion.
Again perfectionism is different from ambition. Ambition is not either good or nor bad. But misplaced ambition is, if it means killing oneself over SAT scores and GPAs and having no life, or if the parents push the kids beyond what is healthy.</p>
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<p>Actually, there’s a school of thought that refutes that assumption, pointing studies that show that “normal” people who are semi-starved show many “anorexic” behavoirs.</p>
<p>Also, I’d be curious as to how you can link bulimia to perfectionism…</p>
<p>Perfectionism is not necessarily and all-encompassing trait. For example, there are certain aspects of my life in which I am more “perfectionistic” than others. </p>
<p>Bulimia is believed to be the result of an attempt to achieve a perfect body- something over which it is easier to have control.</p>
<p>My son told me of a friend who’s beating himself over the head when he gets 98%. The other friends say their parents going to be mad if it’s not an “A”. They are the six graders.</p>
<p>Let’s look at “perfectionism” without all of the negative, emotive words used by the OP:</p>
<p>Perfectionism is:</p>
<ul>
<li>the belief that you should bring order to your life and environment</li>
<li>the striving to be the best and to achieve your goals</li>
<li>an attitude that you should give your best effort to whatever you attempt in life </li>
<li>An attempt to understand, learn and improve from one’s imperfections, failings, and weaknesses</li>
<li>a conscious effort to attempt to achieve goals and to set higher goals in the future. </li>
<li>a strong sense of self motivation in achieving goals.</li>
<li>a outlook that fosters an appreciation for mankind’s accomplishments and potential</li>
<li>the belief that you have the abilities to learn, grow and improve.</li>
</ul>
<p>Edad, that sounds like “ambition” to me, not “perfectionism.”</p>
<p>i agree veryhappy…</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/student/cmhc/booklets/perfection/perfect.html]Perfectionism[/url”>http://www.utexas.edu/student/cmhc/booklets/perfection/perfect.html]Perfectionism[/url</a>]</p>
<p>interesting piece</p>
<p>Perfectionism is like a double-edged sword–it cuts both ways. Perfectionists often don’t realize that they are hurting themselves by their own actions. Perfectionism is a duel with oneself, the ultimate “no-win” situation.</p>
<p>Perfectionists tell themselves that their determination to be perfect will win success, acceptance, love and fulfillment, yet the opposite more often occurs. Even when perfectionists do achieve, the methods they use can deprive them of the very love and acceptance they want so badly to gain.</p>
<p>What is Perfectionism?</p>
<p>Perfectionism is not a healthy pursuit of excellence.</p>
<p>Perfectionism is not a healthy pursuit of excellence. There are big differences between perfectionists and healthy achievers. Perfectionists believe that mistakes must never be made and that the highest standards of performance must always be achieved.</p>
<p>Those who strive for excellence in a healthy way take genuine pleasure in trying to meet high standards. Perfectionists on the other hand are full of self-doubts and fears of disapproval, ridicule and rejection. The healthy striver has drive, while the perfectionist is driven.</p>
<p>Ambition and perfectionism are not the same. We usually use the word ambition to mean the pursuit of success in regard to advancement, recognition, status or rank. Perfectionism is an interest in the pursuit of perfection. Conversely a perfectionist may not be satisfied with imperfection, but that should not imply that a perfectionist is close minded, disagreeable or intolerant of others. Nor should we extend the definition to include pathological insecurities and the inability to deal with imperfections and failures. A healthy individual can pursue perfection and can still be tolerant of others, can cope with shortcomings and failures and can appreciate different approaches to achieve perfection. Anyone who has successfully competed at a national level - in sports or other endeavors - understands the rewards of perfectionism. There is something very satisfying about moving beyond apparant human limitations.</p>
<p>“Perfectionism is not a healthy pursuit of excellence.” I guess a “healthy striver” engages in a healthy pursuit of excellence. How about a simpler definition of perfectionism as the pursuit of excellence? Then we don’t need an alternate term like healthy striver.</p>
<p>I don’t believe there are any “rewards for perfectionism.”
The word, “perfectionism” is an of itself has an unhealthy connotation. </p>
<p>The root of perfectionism, for me, lies in the fundamental thinking flaw that if you are not the best, you are worthless. Nothing. Unlovable. A Failure. </p>
<p>I’ve been a perfectionist all my life. I was valedictorian of my class. I competed at the national level in sports. I went to a top tier school and did well. There is a brief “high” following these events, I guess that can be seen as the reward, but afterwards there is just this vast emptiness and depression. Even when I was valedictorian, I didn’t congratulate myself. I was mad that I “only” had a 4.67 GPA. There were kids with higher GPAs from other schools. Therefore, I wasn’t perfect and that meant failure. When I swam nationally, I got 3rd place. Failure. </p>
<p>Perfectionism is a sorry existence. Nothing I do is good enough. I spend hours on stupid small assignments. I work out for hours and agonize over my eating habits. I’ve begun to avoid relationships with other people altogether because I’m afraid of “screwing up.” I have a difficult time recognizing my feelings because when they aren’t “perfect” and normal, I get scared. I’ve been in inpatient treatment and outpatient treatment on and off for 5 years. I still struggle a lot. </p>
<p>Many people achieve things. But a perfectionist achieves something and can only see what they have done wrong.</p>
<p>banana, off topic, but you posted on the “get it off your chest” thread about getting yourself cleaned up, and doing it for your family, and not being appreciated. I very much want to say to you that you have an awful lot going for you – re-read your post and look at all your accomplishments! Staying clean is something you need to do for yourself, not for anyone else. You are worth it! You say, “Nothing I do is good enough.” Staying clean is a difficult and worthy accomplishment. Hang in there.</p>
<p>You shouldn’t have to struggle alone. Does your school have a clinic or counselor? Perhaps the biggest danger a perfectionist faces is the idea that they have to do things all by themselves or it doesn’t count.</p>
<p>If we begin by limiting our definition of perfectionism only to its negative aspects, there really isn’t much more to be said on the topic. However, there are both positive and negative aspects of perfectionism and I would agree with Edad that it CAN be a healthy pursuit of excellence. Not all perfectionists suffer from low self esteem, anxiety, and depression. Without perfectionism, our society probably would not have made many of the great advances it has in areas of technology, medicine, art, literature, and so on.</p>
<p>Which is not so say that we should just ignore the negative aspects, which are very real concerns and are what we are most familiar with - we know that many of our gifted children are perfectionists, but the real challenge is not to change them but to channel their perfectionist tendencies in more positive directions.</p>
<p>I speak as a parent of a son who is gifted and has Aspergers (talk about a double whammy in the area of perfectionism!)</p>
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<p>People seem to be conflating perfectionism with the pursuit of excellence and advancement. I would say that perfectionism, because it discourages risk-taking, can in fact stifle these advances.</p>
<p>I agree with Jessiehl.<br>
The pursuit of excellence is not necessarily about perfectionism. Giftedness is not necessarily associated with perfectionism, nor is Asperger’s.</p>
<p>ITA with cgm’s post. I quit my job five years ago because the boss’ need for perfectionism – and my desire to please him – about drove me over the edge. Striving for perfection is a miserable existence.</p>
<p>Perfection is doable for anyone, as long as he/she chooses wisely. A dysfunctional perfectionist will avoid that which he knows will present a significant enough challenge. Some may choose to ‘perfect’ the test; others choose to achieve a perfect swing, a perfect body, perfect pitch, be the perfect mom, write perfectly… I have a friend who is obsessed with pedicures and body hair- she has spent her life removing every trace of body hair and has perfect feet. Achieving perfection has a lot to do with finding something within your unique skill set and running with it.</p>
<p>My younger son is a perfectionst and competitive, and I see him avoiding areas where he isn’t sure he can succeed. Frustrating to watch, but I know he comes by it honestly.</p>