<p>zoosermom–you bring up a point I often ponder. People pick at Catholicism because they don’t like this or that. I’m curious–for those of other religions and denominations–do you fully believe and agree with each and all of the doctrines of your church?</p>
<p>I agree with the doctrine of my church, but some of the practices annoy me sometimes. We are a musical denomination and much of the music has remained the same for centuries, but in the last decade, the governing body has decided that instead of using the traditional hymnal, we will have photocopies of the songs for the day which have been modernized. By modernized, I mean that every reference to maleness has been removed, no he, his, son, father, king, etc. and all words are gender neutral. In addition to being silly, I find this arrogant and disrespectful of God who was surely correct in HIS decision to differentiate between men and women. I don’t believe that the existence of men is an affront to women.</p>
<p>Wow, just checked into this thread again, too. Of course, we had to come back to the controversial subjects.</p>
<p>Can I just say that my priest never told my husband and I we couldn’t come to Mass because we only had one child? </p>
<p>And there were very many openly gay students at my son’s Catholic high school, and those students were allowed to receive communion and attend Mass.</p>
<p>And I don’t think a woman who is known to have had an abortion would be denied attending mass or receiving communion at my parish, either.</p>
<p>What makes you choose your faith is not what the political/economic/social views of your church, but its basic beliefs.</p>
<p>I have learned about the different religions throughout my education, and there are many similarities and many differences, but the religion that holds closest to my SPIRITUAL beliefs is the Catholic church.</p>
<p>I wish that we could get back to being defined by what we believe, not by what all the political factions and right wing or left wing extremists identify us with.</p>
<p>I am hoping that Pope Francis will bring us back to that, what Catholicism SPIRITUALLY represents, not what other special interest groups want to identify us with.</p>
<p>I’m Jewish. I think many of the Jewish sects have ridiculous beliefs, with some believing stuff I consider to be bluntly wrong. A reason we have so many sects is we break up rather than adhere to group beliefs that don’t fit.</p>
<p>"-do you fully believe and agree with each and all of the doctrines of your church?"</p>
<p>Quaker. We don’t have any, except that there is “that of God” (or “the seed” or “the inward teacher” or “the Christ within”) in each of us. We have agnostics (of a special kind) and even some atheists (often of the Buddhist variety) among us, and they (including my wife) seem to be okay with that.</p>
<p>And most people in the world, and, I think, even in the U.S., don’t choose their faith, but simply stay with the one into which they are born. The power of religious inertia is very strong; probably the strongest religious force in the world. My favorite example of this is Italy, where almost everyone (except a very large number of Muslims) doesn’t care in the least about Catholic doctrine (they don’t “reject” it; they just don’t care), don’t go to church, don’t give money to the church, but will get baptized and married and buried in the Church.</p>
<p>He’s not so bad as far as Popes go.</p>
<p>I was raised Catholic. Like most young girls I loved animals and so I loved St. Francis of Assisi. I suppose at this point I’m a Buddhist. I don’t know if I’m a Buddhist, only that I go every morning and sit for an hour with some people who are probably excellent Buddhists.</p>
<p>I’ve done this for twenty years. I like Buddhists, they say things like, “Kill the Buddha.” How can you argue with that?</p>
<p>Lol. Poetgrl!!</p>
<p>I want to come with you! </p>
<p>I haven’t looked for a “new” religion to join but I haven’t really looked. I guess I’m agnostic? I think I believe in God but I don’t think he/she is concerned with our individual lives.</p>
<p>I’m in agreement with Mom2colleges that those who are disgruntled with their religion, whatever it is, shouldn’t expect it to change. We all are responsible for our own spiritual life.</p>
<p>I also think that the public is attaching too much significance to the new Pope’s apparent humility and simplicity. He may be those things but that does not mean that you should expect radical changes in the church. Small and significant ones for some people, maybe but not some of the changes that many are waiting for.</p>
<p>It would be a great tee-shirt ‘Real Catholics Ride the Bus’.</p>
<p>YOu could make a fortune on that!!!</p>
<p>I want that shirt!</p>
<p>I’d buy it.</p>
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<p>Laketime, that makes sense. That your belief that the Catholic Church is the one church makes you able to live with some of the policies or rules that you may not feel completely comfortable with. Correct me if I am off base. I can understand that. For me, I really never bought the doctrine so it was a lose/lose.</p>
<p>Part of what troubles me is the thought of someone who may be gay or divorced who has that same faith and strong belief in the Catholic doctrine and yet they are prevented from taking part in the sacraments.</p>
<p>*Can I just say that my priest never told my husband and I we couldn’t come to Mass because we only had one child? </p>
<p>And there were very many openly gay students at my son’s Catholic high school, and those students were allowed to receive communion and attend Mass.</p>
<p>And I don’t think a woman who is known to have had an abortion would be denied attending mass or receiving communion at my parish, either.*</p>
<p>Montegut…did someone here suggest that parents of “onlies” can’t go to Mass? I must have missed that. That certainly would not be true. No one is obligated to give birth X+ times. </p>
<p>As for openly gay students at your child’s Catholic school…Being gay doesn’t mean that you can’t be Catholic or go to Mass. However, any student (gay or straight) that is openly sexually active should likely have a priest at the school talk to them about how their actions are contrary to receiving Communion. While some of us may not agree with that, that’s what the Church’s position would be. Obviously, what people are doing privately and quietly would not be known by the priests, but if some student (gay or straight) was talking about their sexual activities (for instance in religion class), then the priest should private speak to that person. The same as if a married person were openly talking about actively being in affair…he/she should be privately addressed. </p>
<p>As for a woman who’s had an abortion and receiving Communion. Well, we all know that most times no one even knows who has had an abortion, so no one is going around pointing, “you, you and you…you can’t go to Communion”. However, the individual obviously knows and before rec’g Communion is supposed to go to Confession. </p>
<p>We had an OB/GYN in our parish who lost his hospital privileges because of gross malpractice. He opened an abortion clinic and of course nearly the entire parish knew about it. He was told privately by the pastor that he would not be allowed to receive Communion…and that’s what should have happened. The Church can’t have someone “very publicly seriously sinning” (performing abortions) on a daily and determined basis and then come to Communion on Sundays. This isn’t something that can be “fixed” during Saturday Confession because there would be no intent to stop.</p>
<p>I consider myself deist. My wife was raised in the Eastern Orthodox Church but I believe she has left the church- she just has not officially announced it. Our D was raised in the church but has left the church and is looking for a faith that fits her. I happen to bleive she would find the Quaker faith an excellent place for her spiritual needs.
We are visited weekly by a lovely couple who are Jeovah Witnesses and my wife usual has a bible reading with them. I say hello and go about my business. Our dogs love them.
When I retire I want to take religious history classes. I find all religions fascinating.</p>
<p>Part of what troubles me is the thought of someone who may be gay or divorced who has that same faith and strong belief in the Catholic doctrine and yet they are prevented from taking part in the sacraments.</p>
<p>“Being gay” or “being divorced” does not prevent someone from receiving the sacraments. If I got divorced tomorrow, I haven’t committed a sin. If I think I’m gay, I haven’t committed a sin. (I mean in the “eyes of the Church.” However, being sexually active outside of marriage is a problem…whether gay or straight.) </p>
<p>However, if a divorced person wants to remarry, then s/he needs to have the previous marriage examined to determine if it was valid. If not valid, then an annulment is granted. Unfortunately, many marriages are found to be invalid…not because of some hat trick…but because many enter Catholic marriage without a true understanding or maturity level to have a sacramental marriage.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>Couple #1: Husband “comes out of the closet” after several years of marriage. The marriage was NEVER valid. (this happens more than you’d think!! I have at least 3 friends with ex-H’s who are gay…another one we suspect. ) (easy annulment)</p>
<p>Couple #2: Wife never intends on having any children. She hides this info from her fiance because she wants to get married. After a few years, the wife finally tells the H that she never wanted kids and will never have any. (easy annulment) </p>
<p>Couple #3: Husband is a philanderer. It comes out that he even cheated when they were dating. The man obviously never understood or had what it takes to be faithful. (somewhat easy annulment).</p>
<p>Couple #4 (a relative of mine). Shortly before marriage, the fiance took their savings and bought an expensive Harley for himself wiithout telling his future bride. The money was supposed to be used for a home down payment. The wedding went forward, but this pattern of “not thinking like a couple” persisted. The couple divorced, annulment was granted. I was a witness for this annulment and gave testimony since I was present when the future bride learned of the Harley purchase. The annulment was granted because the H obviously never truly understood the concept of Catholic marriage, thinking as a couple, etc. When the “defender of the bond” attorney took my deposition, she told me that my testimony would make the case and it did.</p>
<p>Couple #5: The wife had a mental illness that was unknown at the time of the marriage (either to her or to her future spouse). Her mental illness was such that having a “relatively normal” marriage (ha ha normal…but you know what I mean) would be impossible (see the Borderline thread for more info. 
) Usually serious mental illness (bi polar, PDs, etc) can be easy annulments. </p>
<p>Couple #6 H is immature. self-centered. treats wife like a personal maid. kind of ignores the kids. has time for “his stuff”, but won’t make time for family stuff. These annulments can be more difficult to process, but they usually do go thru… Often evidence must be shown that the immaturity existed prior to the marriage (so someone who had been responsible, loving and devoted, but then had a mid-life crisis, would not be the same thing. However, that’s probably rare. those who have mid-life crises that involve infidelity and other horrible issues likely have been immature their whole lives.)</p>
<p>The Church does not deny the Eucharist to divorced or gay Catholics. The Eucharist is denied to all faithful who are in a state of mortal sin. A divorced Catholic who has not remarried or a chaste gay Catholic is presumed to be in a state of grace, and free to receive communion. The church expects all sexual activity to be within the bounds of sacramental marriage and all unmarried persons gay or straight are bound by this.
I am not divorced, nor am I gay. There are however things in the Church that are difficult for me yet I strive to be conformed to God’s will and not my own, sometimes it is close to unbearably difficult, but that is part of following Christ.</p>
<p>Ethical Culture. I believe in all the tenets but we don’t have many. Basically we believe this:</p>
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<p>^^ (#96) Is that to say that a divorced Catholic who has remarried is in a state of mortal sin? Or a gay person in a committed relationship? Wasn’t aware of that phraseology.</p>
<p>Can somebody explain how it’s possible for these things to vary from parish to parish? I know there are parishes that deny communion to those who are divorced or gay. yet, not all do. Some are more welcoming to gay couples than others. As a non-Catholic, it gets confusing!</p>
<p>As a former Catholic it gets confusing.</p>
<p>When I got divorced and subsequently remarried, I chose to go to the Presbyterian church rather than having my first marriage annulled. I know I did not have the maturational level to marry the first time, I even tried to back out several times before the wedding day, but each time, I was talked into going through with the ceremony. In my heart of hearts, however, that sounded a lot like excuse making, so having my marriage annulled seemed disingenuous at best. </p>
<p>Fast forward 30 years later. I have been in my second marriage for 27 years, I have a twenty-four year old daughter who was involved in youth groups, worship, mission trips, etc., even during college. My dad dies and the priest will not allow her to do a scripture reading at my dad’s funeral because she wasn’t Catholic. He was, however, going to allow my brother’s kids to read (without asking anything about how much they currently participated in church at all). Oh, and I couldn’t do a eulogy. </p>
<p>I am hoping that Pope Francis is a man of true faith in Christ. A man who will see such edicts as more like the Pharisees than like Jesus.</p>
<p>I was fortunate we were able to conduct all memorial services as the survivors preferred. Would be upset and unhappy if church or other “authority” tried to impose its values and rules.</p>