Prep School Rape

Prep School Admissions Prep School Parents
1701

@center @itcannotbetrue -

I’m kind of shocked at what you two are saying, particularly if (?) you are both adult women and mothers of teens.

My teenaged sons and I were appalled, for example, at this “females have unlimited power over males” business - since when? Are you aware of male privilege and its heavy, heavy impact on education at all levels (particularly at elite levels and particularly in STEM)? How about in employment, athletics, randomly in street crime…etc.?

Sometimes it’s actually a verbal hint that someone is going to go all “men are discriminated against” when you read people described as “females” and “males” as opposed to men and women in a more human sense. This set of claims about women just getting to say the word and all of a sudden men are victimized - is nonsense and comes from a nauseatingly entitled male-centric view of the world.

And as for the “slut”/“pig” labels - I think we have to draw a HUGE line between consensual and nonconsensual sexual activity. Most men will be reassured that they are in fact NOT one step away from being labelled rapists, because if a girl/woman says or indicates “no” - it does not make them want to proceed sexually…if they see a woman crying or trying to run away from someone, it makes them actually really turned off.

It’s like someone making racist jokes and being all offended, “hey you can’t say anything anymore because of those oversensitive people, am I right?”

I would be very uncomfortable to have other parents in my parent community with such a sex-negative viewpoint of young people, that they would rush to label those who are exercising their sexuality at a different pace than I might encourage for my children or for myself. Honestly, I have a problem with someone who called me a prude because I only ever dated my husband, and I have a problem with someone calling a student of mine a slut because she has had sexually active experiences. (Both have happened.)

ETA: @QuantMech - regarding pepper spray, I do love MIT (and tolerate Caltech in small doses) having gone to both - but sadly, pepper spray wouldn’t be the worst idea in either place. I was grabbed and assaulted (forcible touching of sexual nature, not rape) by an MIT employee in the student center basement my first month on campus, and both schools are open enough campuses that you could easily encounter any random person at any time. (BTW as a side note, since the MIT instance was when I was under 18, I was able to report it last year in MIT’s big Title IX push. The guy has since died, but I felt better to have done so. In fact, I never told anyone except my husband, for those 25 years.)

1702

@fretfulmother : “Sometimes it’s actually a verbal hint that someone is going to go all ‘men are discriminated against’ when you read people described as ‘females’ and ‘males’ as opposed to men and women in a more human sense.”

Absolutely.

1703

Pepper spray is not a bad idea no matter where you are. And the “police grade” will also contain a purple dye to mark the person for identification purposes. We have it in all of our vehicles and although my H and S feel no need to carry it, my D always has a small canister in her purse.

And let’s not forget MIT is in an urban area. While my own D feels very safe on campus, she has cousins at “that other school down the road” and may find herself traveling on the T late at night returning to campus on her own. Although we encourage Uber after a certain hour, she cannot always get one quickly on a weekend night.

1704

MODERATOR’S NOTE

The Exeter conversation already is its own thread,
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-admissions/1905013-article-phillips-exeter-academy-under-fire-again-or-its-handling-of-sexual-misconduct-allegation.html#latest

It’s fine including discussion of this incident here. It’s not like it is totally off-topic

1705

@momofthreeboys the way Exeter defines sexual assault and harassment are wayyyy more lax than what the state of New Hampshire defines it. It was sexual assault.

1706

Not to put a fine print on it, but AM50203 did you not read that I was the first person to link the article that indicated that they had charged him? What point are you directing at me anyway??? It’s often helpful to read the entire thread before you post threads directed at a specific person.

1707

@momofthreeboys You probably get comments directed to you because you post things like this: “From the little in the story, sexual harassment for sure, but it doesn’t sound like sexual assault to me. In the workplace guidance the EEOC defines harassment as unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature.”

FYI, the original article I linked clearly mentions the misdemeanor sexual assault charges as well as my post before your post referencing it. I think we, at least those of us who read the article, were clear on the State’s position. What is confusing is your comments like I referenced above.

1708

Because there is zero point or question in 1740 that needs to be directed to me specifically. If there is question then ask it to me directly. If there is an opinion then post it for all to respond…the only opinion in that post is that Exeter is more lax than NH which has zip to do with anything being discussed and nada to do with anything I have posted.

1709

I meant to reply to your post on page 111. Where you said it “doesn’t seem like sexual assault.” The reason why I pointed out how my school defines sexual assault vs. what the state of NH defines sexual assault is because you brought up different places in which sexual harassment is defined as unwelcome sexual advances (if someone gropes you without consent, it isn’t merely harassment). Currently, Exonians are also realizing how the E book defined sexual assault and harassment and it doesn’t line up with the state’s definition- in fact, it is a lot more relaxed, meaning someone could get away with sexual assault and it simply be labeled as sexual harassment. There is no question, it is merely a statement. The law defines what happened to this young woman as sexual assault. Therefore, we cannot say that it doesn’t seem like sexual assault simply on experiences in different environments and possibly different states. The assaulter committed the crime, and he should face the consequences for the crime, not simply a slap on the wrist and stepping down from leadership positions (which he was forced to spring term, but by then he was already accepted into college so it didn’t affect him much). Stepping down from leadership positions as a consequence for assault? That’s almost as bad as the bread baking.

1710

Ok, if you believe it crossed that line from harassment that could be dealt with by any high school public or private to criminal that will be dealt with through the courts. Obviously that local jurisdiction is proceeding believing it did meet the definition of misdemeanor assault and time will tell if they can defend that position. My personal thoughts with no support other than the news report carry no weight. I also stand by my position that it is a very fine line between harassment and misdemeanor assault. Clearly your position is that it is indeed criminal assault.

1711

How on earth could the board and administration at Exeter not have known this? It’s mind-boggling. Even in the dark ages of the 1980s I know of prep schools that had outside counsel review their policies for compliance with local law. The plaintiff’s bar should be all over this to be sure that future students won’t have to go through experiences like the gropee did.

ETA:

Shouldn’t this disciplinary information have been sent to the colleges to which the assaulter had been accepted? Seems like they were protecting the big athlete on campus. I’d hope that top colleges’ admissions officers would now wonder what Exeter college counselors are hiding.

1712

In light of the Labrie case, one would think any prudent boarding school administrator would have looked at, and overhauled if necessary, their policies and procedures. As part of that process it would make sense to assure everything lined up with state law and mandatory reporting procedures. If the administrators didn’t proactively address it, one would sure think their legal counsel would push them to do so.

I agree with @GnocchiB about reporting to the college. I know many boarding schools require reporting disciplinary action to colleges. Not sure where Exeter stands on that.

1713

I thought the same thing when one of S’s classmates (private school, but not boarding) was accepted to college. I think there might have been a lawyer involved in making sure this young man’s letters from the counselor and teachers were carefully worded - not lying, but not telling the whole truth? Could the college admissions officers be less accepting of students from Exeter and St. Paul’s knowing about these situations?

1714

In the St. Paul’s case, the incident took place right before graduation, so to the defense of teachers/college counselor writing rec letters, they didn’t know he was a POS when writing their recommendations. He did a pretty good Eddie Haskell job on them and was legitimately an excellent scholar. SPS did inform Harvard when they became aware of the incident and breaches of school rules, even before the trial and conviction.

1715

“Re 3bm103: I am not sure that there is any university campus (except maybe Wheaton College, and perhaps Caltech and MIT??) where it would be 100% unnecessary for a young woman to carry pepper spray. It would be advisable on my campus.”

I just want to note that Wheaton College is in a pleasant suburban area, but it’s no different physically from any other college in a pleasant suburban area – no one prevents bad people with ill intent from coming into the campus. I’d rather have my daughter walk late at night alone at Wellesley than Wheaton, but I’d prefer she carry pepper spray in either circumstance.

1716

There was a senior in DS’s class who was accepted early to Stanford swimming (possible friend for our buddy Brock?) who was found “guilty” of a series of antisemitic bullying incidents in the locker room. He was “punished” by sitting out one meet and apologizing to one of the [more egregiously treated] victims. As far as I know, Stanford heard none of it. I was not the recommender of this fellow, thank goodness, but I was very upset that he is presumably taking a Stanford spot from someone else. I’m pretty sure that the coaches handled the entire thing internally and I am philosophically opposed to the fact that a marijuana violation (hypothetical) would have been reported to S, but that this business was not. And, I don’t really know what I could have done, as a faculty member with no connection to this kid.

1717

I don’t think you can assume it wasn’t reported to Stanford, even as a faculty member, unless you read the recommendation. The students getting into Stanford from our local public high school are outstanding athletes.

1718

@Periwinkle, I know that it wasn’t reported to Stanford by the coaches, because the swim coach is a teacher-friend of mine. I know that it didn’t even get as far as Guidance or the administration for a “follow-up” - and the teacher/guidance recs had been sent months earlier. The kid had gotten into S early, agreed to attend, and all of this went down in something like March. And, this boy probably is an “outstanding athlete” - no argument there. Presumably Brock Turner is an “outstanding athlete”. (Woop-de-do)

And…also, he’s going to Stanford, so unless Stanford is full of idiots who want more bullies/aggressive/biased types on their swim team even after the BT case, they must not have heard about this.

1719

@Pizzagirl - I assume the Wheaton College referred to is the religious one in the Midwest, not the one in Massachusetts.

1720

“The students getting into Stanford from our local public high school are outstanding athletes.”

Outstanding athletes with known and recorded incidents of bigoted and/or racist bullying? Isn’t that an aspect of character that even a powerhouse school of scholar athletes care about?

I would submit it is