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</p>
<p>I’m surprised you forgot that they have two mouths (for arguing), multiple sets of elbows for pushing their way past you, ditto feet for trampling on your toes…
This is the best argument for geographical diversity.</p>
<p>marite, the northeastern two-headed monster.</p>
<p>Hey, everyone knows you can say anything you want as long as you add “just kidding” at the end of it. (Isn’t that in the How to Be a Rude Easterner handbook;)?)</p>
<p>Anyway, my D, the oldest, was looking for a particular kind of program. At one point, I did mention that I’d found a really interesting version of it at UPenn, and she was going to look into it until she found out it was an Ivy–then she said “no way”. She also believed it would be all rich, preppy jerks.</p>
<p>So, she went to a second tier out-of-state public school, and found–rich preppy jerks. ah well. Transfered to a good LAC, made a bunch of down to earth friends, and revised her ways of categorizing people. It was a good life lesson for her, though a painful way of learning it.</p>
<p>“I am sick of the code word of diversity and am fortunate to have found a school that is relatively homogenous.”</p>
<p>“See, there is always Bob Jones University, for those seeking homogeneity.”</p>
<p>Not all schools that are predominantly of one race/ socioeconomic background or whose student body draws from mostly private schools are sectarian, fanatical or not.</p>
<p>Even though my D ended up at an Ivy, she applied to far more non-Ivy schools than Ivy. In the end, she eliminated all but two of the Ivies quickly. It was much harder for her to give up Smith and Swarthmore than the other Ivies. Why? They both had unique qualities that were not easily replicated anywhere else. As has been said many times on CC, its all about fit. </p>
<p>I think its a mistake to eliminate the Ivy League schools upfront for cost. Its surprising to many that the COA at an Ivy turns out to be less than the COA for their big state U, and not just those that make less than $60K. In Texas, the cost of living in Austin offsets a lot of the cost of attending an Ivy, where room and board is included. While UT has dorms, they are packed and many students live off campus. It ended up costing my close friends about $25000 a year for each kid they put in UT.</p>
<p>Allmusic, although we live in Texas, my S would refuse applying to North Texas too. For whatever reason, it is considered down with Sam Houston or Stephen F. Austin in terms of “prestige.” So, no insult to us Texans there! I have heard that it does have a good music program, though. I have also heard that Kilgore JC has a great dance program, but I would be shocked if I heard anyone was actually going there, but I am sure many people do. </p>
<p>It really is about finding the program that you are looking for, in a location that you can see yourself living in for 4 years, and within whatever economic constraints your family can handle.</p>
<p>Garland–I would like to point out the polite Southern way of skewering someone is to add “Bless his/her heart” after it.</p>
<p>Allmusic,
I certainly didn’t mean my post as any put down to the NE—my H. and I come from a long line of Yankees and are only southerners for the last 15 years. Anyone on this board who remembers my original reason for posting on here was that my son was so unhappy with his “dream” school that he thought was going to be such a perfect fit. (has worked it out, but found there are problems anywhere-no utopias). My point was that kids get an idea into their minds and no amount of rational talk by parents will push it aside. Now northern winters are a fact 
(see remembered to put my smilie face) lol</p>
<p>mkm–I don’t think it was your post she (and others, including myself) was responding to. Weather can be a dealbreaker for anyone. my kids wouldn’t go anywhere without four seasons (no, real ones–leaves falling, snow, etc :)).</p>
<p>MkM, it wasn’t your post, but one a page back to which some of us are referring.</p>
<p>Regional differences are real, and it is understandable that kids are more comfortable in a familiar part of the country.</p>
<p>Edad, there are great music programs at IU and UMiami too, and DS won’t consider either of those either. Oberlin works though, despite it being in Ohio, because it is full of enough heathen liberals that it’s location isn’t problematic (here’s my smiley face! :))</p>
<p>And is, “You’re a sweet mess” supposed to be a southern compliment? A friend from Alabama said that to me once, and was surprised when I was offended!!!</p>
<p>bandit-TX- I agree that it’s not the best idea to eliminate Ivies due to cost - just as I think it’s not wise to elimininate the flagship State U due to lack of prestige. Around here (eastcoast), many students will not even look at our State U because it’s viewed as a inferior choice to top 50 privates (even though it’s a top 50 school with a number of programs ranked in the top 20). Many view it as Grade 13. Although I think it’s great to accomodate your child’s preferences, I’m not sure I understand why so many feel that they have to fork over huge $ just to go private or out of state (for those who don’t qualify for fin aid - state around here is almost always cheaper). If money is unlimited, and the student has strong reasons for preferring other schools, I can understand. But why eliminate it from the running without even visiting? Or choose a similar school at significantly more $ just to get out of state. I think we have lots of spoiled kids around here…</p>
<p>I’ve never heard “You’re a sweet mess” Did you spill syrup on your shirt? ;)</p>
<p>" I agree that it’s not the best idea to eliminate Ivies due to cost."</p>
<p>If your expectation is that, because of sports or other activities, a full-ride is forthcoming elsewhere that offers a good education, I think it is a terrific idea to eliminate Ivies due to cost. And to do so for EDUCATIONAL as well as financial reasons. If you would pay $25k a year at an Ivy (parents, student, debt, etc.), with very rare exceptions, that $100k differential can almost always buy you better educational opportunities elsewhere (a year and a half of med school, an MBA, two years in Europe, couple of years chasing butterflies in Madagascar, an MPH in for a future public health doc, etc.) than the “value-added” by an Ivy-like degree. In other words, to put it baldly, andIvy-like education is often INFERIOR by virtually any measure I can think of (for the average student) to a good non-Ivy education plus $100k in educational opportunities, IF you are committed to spending the $100k.</p>
<p>As others have well pointed out, however, the prestige education may often turn out to be cheaper. For my older d., her education is costing us less than half that of the state u., and she will graduate debt-free. For my younger one, it’s Div. I sports all the way (we hope) (and I get to retire early…fingers crossed.)</p>
<p>however, the prestige education may often turn out to be cheaper. For my older d., her education is costing us less than half that of the state u., and she will graduate debt-free</p>
<p>but mini- for those who dont qualify for need based aid- the state school, especially if they have an honors program can be a good alternative to attending a very expensive private school.
Ivies for those without need, are significantly more expensive than $25K a year, and if $25K is all you end up paying after need based aid- I don’t think you can argue that you would have $100K after graduation to run around the country- where would you get it?</p>
<p>mini - agreed. I just meant that students should not make an automatic assumption that Ivy equals more cost than non-Ivy. I know of students who recieved full rides at Ivies (including my brother many years ago). And yes, I agree about prestige education costing less in some cases - especially if one qualifies for aid. But this is not always the case for upper income folks unless you qualify for significant merit aid. What I don’t like is to hear about students who automatically disqualify state U becuase of prestige or other “surface” factors. At least take a look!</p>
<p>
Most students aren’t trading athletic scholarships against Ivy educations, they are trading cost to cost. Depending on assets, other kids, etc, people making in the $150k range can be paying less than $25k for an Ivy education. For the same $25k, those students might have chosen the Ivy or other elite route had they considered it. Many discounted it without checking.</p>
<p>“Ivies for those without need, are significantly more expensive than $25K a year, and if $25K is all you end up paying after need based aid- I don’t think you can argue that you would have $100K after graduation to run around the country- where would you get it?”</p>
<p>I think I’ve addressed that before. IF you could afford $45k a year, BUT NO MORE (i.e., no money for other educational opportunities), with rare exceptions, I think the prestige schools (not just the Ivies) are a poor EDUCATIONAL choice - you can simply get a lot more for your money going elsewhere, and then actually spending the cost savings elsewhere on education.</p>
<p>Okay folks, time to put this little baby to rest. Don’t you think?</p>
<p>Atomom wrote:</p>
<p>“two things are frightening away a lot of potential Ivy applicants: #1: Ivies are mostly filled with east coast people and #2: mostly located in east coast weather.
As everyone who doesn’t live on the east coast (that is, hardly anyone on CC) knows, east coasters are rude, aggressive, impatient, mean, competitive, argumentative, snobbish, and (sorry, friends) just downright unpleasant to be around for more than a few minutes. And mostly liberal and Godless, too. And they probably got that way from sitting in traffic for hours each day in ugly dangerous gray cities during those long, cold, dark, windy, dreary, wet, snowy winters that manage to take up most of what the rest of us call spring and fall, too. Can you spell DEPRESSING? Why do some people choose not to go Ivy? Nasty people, nasty weather–it’s that simple. (All in fun, y’all–don’t take it too personally).”</p>
<p>First, I do not believe that Ivies are mostly filled with east coast people. To the contrary, the highly selective schools tend to be very diverse geographically, more so than some other schools. It is part of their admissions’ “mission” to create a diverse class. Students hail from all 50 states and numerous foreign countries, which in fact, is one of the appeals for my D in going to a selective school. The students she knows at her school truly do hail from all over. </p>
<p>As far as east coast weather or other regional things, I can definitely see students having a geographic preference. My own kids indeed did. They grew up in Vermont and wanted a school on the east coast, though not the south (we put no limits on them geographically) and preferred the school to be near a city, having grown up in a rural area. So, I do understand how a student from the south, west or even midwest might rule out the east coast as my kids ruled out those areas in reverse. </p>
<p>What I don’t get, even if you say it is “all in fun” is the sweeping generalizations about all those on the east coast. The east coast is a varied area. My kids grew up on a dirt road in the mountains in a town of about 1700, no traffic light in town, no chain stores, etc. Their lifestyle contrasts greatly with a kid from Manhattan. There are numerous differences along the east coast. Even differences among people from just one area. The “sitting in traffic” is not everywhere on the east coast. As well, the traffic and all that kind of thing exists in places like LA too!</p>
<p>Lastly, while I understand not choosing a school in a certain geographic area, I would not lump the student population at the school to be necessarily from that area. Again, at very selective schools, the student body hails from all over. </p>
<p>Not sure what ya mean on the “godless” part but while ending remarks here may not be “God Bless” like southern speak, there are many religious people on the east coast! I understand a student may have preferences for more liberal or conservative campuses, but lumping in all this other stuff is really not an accurate depiction, not even mildly, in my view.</p>
<p>I have been on the East coast for 15 years. I think those sweeping generalizations were pretty accurate. At least they come close to describing some aspects of the NYC metro area.</p>
<p>I’ve lived by whole life on the East Coast and spent over 25 years working in NYC.Unfortunately those sweeping generalizations capture NYC and its surronding suburbs pretty accurately.</p>