Realistic chances of being admitted into American colleges with finaid offers?

International Students
1

I’m a high school student from Germany in my last year of school (about to graduate soon) with a grade of 1.1 (German scale). This should put me in about the 98th percentile, but I have almost no ECs. I started learning Chinese about half a year ago, I am the vice president of the student body and I participated in a business plan competition and won fifth place.

I’d say that with proper preparation I would be able to get atleast 760 in the SATs

Is there a realistic chance of being admitted by a decent college that can provide me with financial aid? I can pay next to nothing out of my own pocket. Of course I’m not thinking of places like Harvard or MIT, but I would not want to go somewhere thinking that I’d get a better education at home.

I guess this is more of a “Chance me” thread, I don’t have any realistic plans to go to the US for an undergrad education, but the notion seems quite interesting and I’d like to know where I would stand, were I to apply to US colleges.

2

For the most part it is the topmost colleges that give good financial aid to internationals. They are the hardest to get into.

Universities in Germany are free, take advantage of it.

3

No, no chance for a full ride. They only give those at the very top schools for international students and only the most outstanding. Germany has great universities, go there and do a study abroad to the US.

4

A 1.1 is outstanding.
Not yet why posters above think getting into a US is not achievable for you.
However you need to be clear on why.
With those results you’ll get into any German university you wish as well as ETZH, plus most European programs, so you need to want not just academics but the particular environment of us colleges- the general education and opportunity to choose a major later, the choice of classes, the community, the close interaction with professors, the opportunity to do research, the classes with homework and quizzes rather than one big exam at the end of the year.
Two criteria : when you say you can at next to nothing, what is your parents’ income? And what are you interested in studying?

5

I agree with MYOS that you’re an outstanding student and can likely get in somewhere in the U.S. You will have to be smart about how you apply, and gauge whether the American schools that admit you with enough financial aid are as good as the excellent universities you could attend in Europe.

6

@bar!um may have specific advice for you. She researched a very large number of colleges and universities here before carefully targeting her applications to places where she was most likely to get significant merit-based aid.

How badly do you want to study in the US? There is a very small group of places that guarantee admissions and automatic full-tuition or full-ride scholarships to all students (including international applicants) who have specific stats. Read through the thread on that topic at the top of the Financial Aid Forum. @paul2752 can also advise on the process.

7

You need to have 1400+ in SAT or 32~33+ in ACT to get substantial automatic merit scholarship.
But I don’t see much reason to come to US if you can get decent education in Germany with lower price tag. As MYOS said, think very very carefully.

8

@kingofthecliff You may want to start collecting helpful information here: http://www.educationusa.de/studium/
“In Partnerschaft mit dem US-Aussenministerium bieten EducationUSA Beratungsstellen in Deutschland und weltweit detaillierte und unabhängige Informationen über das gesamte Spektrum akkreditierter Studien-und Austauschprogramme.” All success!

9

A 1.1 Abitur is phenomenal! Congratulations!!!

Imo the main obstacle here is that you’re about to be done with school. As you probably know, you would have to take a gap year to apply to American universities for entry in 2019. I think there’s some chance that you could get sufficient funding to attend an American university, but I do not know if the chance of success is high enough to put your education in Germany on hold for a year.

Your options for funding from American universities break down into need-based aid and merit-based scholarships.

Need-based aid is available from the private “elite” universities (Harvard, MIT, etc) as well as liberal arts colleges. In your shoes, I would probably not apply to the elite universities. Your chances without something “extra” in addition to grades and test scores are too low to make that a worthwhile effort. (That something “extra” could be an award from an international academic competition, athletic ability, civic engagement or a particular hardship that you’ve had to overcome.)

A few dozen liberal arts colleges give significant financial aid to international students and they are generally less selective than the elite universities. Applying to these is still a gamble, but one that’s more likely to pay off than applying to Harvard & Co. Particularly if you are female and willing to attend a women’s college.

However, liberal arts colleges also come with downsides. You’d be very restricted in your choice of major, your degree would have no international name recognition, and you’d probably struggle to get sponsorship for a work visa in the US after graduation. (I am assuming that you’re not a US citizen. If you are, the whole funding situation changes, so please let us know!) If you attend a liberal arts college, you should be planning to get a graduate degree after your Bachelor’s.

The other option would be merit-based scholarships. There are a few scholarships out there for a full ride (tuition, room and board) that are based solely on grades and test scores, but they are at universities that you would not want to attend.

Full-tuition scholarships are more doable on the basis of grades and test scores alone. Here’s one such offer, as an example: https://www.uah.edu/admissions/undergraduate/financial-aid/scholarships/merit-tuition-scholarships You’ll notice that the University of Alabama at Huntsville makes a distinction between a 4.0 GPA (meaning perfect grades) and grades below a 4.0 GPA. If you haven’t had a single grade below a 2 (on the 1-6 scale), you can get your German transcripts evaluated by WES to a 4.0 GPA to qualify for the more generous scholarship.

If you take an offer for a full-tuition or a full-tuition + housing scholarship, and you’d need additional support for living expenses, you could get a student loan. I hear that Bildungsfonds are willing to give loans for a full degree abroad.

10

I’d like to add a few thoughts on whether I think going to a less-selective American university is worth it, given that you could have your pick of German universities.

Generally speaking, I think that tertiary education in the US is superior to tertiary education in Germany. Universities in Germany will essentially test you once a semester while you teach yourself. I have attended both a German university (as a Fruehstudent) and several American universities (a non-selective community college, a liberal arts college, and an elite university). In my own experience, the German university curriculum covered more material but I never learned it quite as well. American universities tend to go slower and cover less, but they force students to engage with the material in a way that I came out with a much better understanding of it. (Through regular graded homework, course projects, several exams per semester, etc.)

Now, if you attend an American university that’s too unselective, you will suffer from a lack of peer group, so please don’t do that. Less selective universities in the US train students who would complete a Berufsausbildung in Germany.

Another option to consider would be graduate school in the US after college in Germany. American PhD students are usually fully funded. You can enter a PhD program with a Bachelor’s degree, but foreign-educated students are usually stronger candidates if they complete a Master’s degree first. If that’s a route you’re interested in, start your preparations early. American PhD programs care about demonstrated research interest and letters of recommendation from professors who know you outside of class. Start attending research seminars and talking to your professors early. See if you can join a research group. If you work closely with a professor in Germany who has collaborators in the US, you may have a better chance of getting admitted to the PhD programs where the collaborators work.

The considerations above change if you are interested in either law or medicine. Both are absurdly expensive in the US with essentially no funding available. Unfortunately, there’s no cheap way to become a lawyer in the US. But you can become a physician in the US after completing medical school in Germany. If that’s a path you’re interested in, I’d be happy to elaborate.

11

Being curious about studying in another part of the world is a great thing. Even if you don’t end up enrolling full time in a US college or university, you might want to look at European universities that offer semester or year-abroad programs in partnership with US colleges.

12

Thanks @“b@r!um” for your extensive reply. And thanks to everyone else who took the time to reply.

Unfortunately I am not a female, so applying to women’s colleges won’t work for me.

AFAIK I’d be eligible for STEM-OPT after my degree (I would major in mathematics or CS), unless President Trump makes some changes to that. I certainly wouldn’t want to go to law or med school in the US.

I think I’d enjoy the close-knit community at a LA college and the wide variety of courses I’d be able to take. And also, the intriguing experience of living overseas.

The highest amount that I’d be able to pay out of my own pocket would be roughly $10000 per year. This is, however, a very high estimate. I try to avoid loans as I could get a degree without loans at home (unless you count BAföG as a loan). Most definitely, I wouldn’t want to be in the situation of sitting on $30000 loans that I have to pay back after graduating.

Looks like I’d have better chances with grad school.

13

With a 1.1 you’ve got your pick among German universities - find one with a good exchange program! You’d just go abroad for a year, but tuition fees at the US university would be waived.
Another option are internships in the US, which will be much easier to arrange than a full tuition scholarship for a four year school that is appropriate for a 1.1 student. You would have had to do much more than „merely“ be an outstanding student to make yourself interesting to top programs in the US.
I would direct you to the UK, but again, you’d have to take a gap year because the application process starts in fall and is over by winter. Also, with Brexit, you should have matriculated in 2018 to lock in home fees. if you matriculated in 2019, you may lose the home fee advantage and UK universities may become unaffordable, particularly as BAföG loans and grants may not be available any more once the UK is out of the EU.
ETH Zürich had been mentioned - degree programs in Switzerland do qualify for BAföG grants and loans, and will continue to do so. Another school with good international name recognition abroad is TU Munich.
And, of course, there is always grad school. PhD programs may be fully funded.
There are lots of options - but I am afraid the ship for four year undergraduate schools has sailed.

14

Are you in year 11 or year 12 (last-before-last, or last year of secondary School?)
Also, gap years are okay. :slight_smile:

15

OP is about to graduate.

Gap years are wonderful! I did one, would recommend it to anyone. But it might preclude UK universities as realistic options, because by fall 19, the UK is out of the EU and no one knows what’s going to happen about tuition fees, and regarding US colleges, it’s not going to change anything about the fact that OP has stellar academic qualifications, but none of the hooks that an international would need for a college that would be a good fit AND offer full tuition. (Ive always wondered whether wanting to study classics might make a difference - there might be colleges who’d want to snap up a kid who has had 7, 8 or 9 years of Latin at a German gymnasium, but it’s unlikely that that is OPs plan).

Really, going to a US university that is a good fit for the OP AND might offer full tuition, whether as merit or need based aid, would have taken some planning from 9th grade onwards, and that’s not just concerning ECs, hooks or the right “narrative”. OP may not be aware that US universities, unlike those in most European countries, will want to see transcripts for 9th and 10th grades, too, which may or may not be at the level of his 11th and 12th grade accomplishments, because in the German system those grades don’t count for university bound students and even bright kids occasionally slack off and get Cs and Ds during those years. OP, will your GPA across all 4 years still be the equivalent of straight As? That’s an important data point.

Another is whether you would, in theory, have enough need as would be determined by US colleges, to get financial aid at least to the level of full tuition, if a college that meets full need for internationals were to accept you. Roughly, your parents should make probably make less than 100.000 EUR before taxes and not own more houses than the one your family lives in, but each college may determine need differently.

Since OP isn’t determined to go to the US for all 4 years undergrad at all costs, I’d focus on other options. Going abroad for a really interesting gap year, maybe even to China - THAT might make you stand out -, finding a German university with a good exchange program, plan on internships the US and yes, applying to a number of liberal arts colleges during that gap year who meet full need for internationals, because why not…but don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

16

Scotland has promised to keep EU/EEA students at current fees, so Glasgow, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, and St Andrews should be on your list for sure. Add Trinity Dublin.
(Also, don’t make plans to skirt the UK because of Brexit: we’re entering the “reality bites” phase of the process. Brexiteers have been in denial about their choices and they’re going to hit a wall soon: either they stay within the common market and pay the way Norway does which means costs and no voice in Parliament, or they don’t get access to the common market and there are huge economic problems for Britain since most of its trading partners are European nations. So, either they pay in pounds or they pay in a catastrophic economic situation, both of which will be clear in 2019. The Brexiteers’ position has been that there’d be no catastrophe but as the choice between paying to stay in the market or leaving it totally becomes necessary, it’s becoming harder to pretend. Add to this that Theresa May’s lost her majority, Ireland thinking of a new form of relationship that would preserve the Good Friday Agreement on borders but wouldn’t make smuggling stuff from South to North a mockery of the treaties, etc.)
Once you’ve got those options secured, you can add American universities.
Run the NPC on HarveyMudd, Lafayette, Olin, Penn, Cornell: the result will be for Americans so it’ll include things you’re not allowed to have (potentially Pell, definitely the federal “Stafford” loans) and it’s likely the minimum your family is expected to pay but at least it gives you an idea of what you can expect in terms of costs.

17

If you’re planning to major in math/CS, grad school in US would be a very good choice. I had a few German classmates in grad school in math, and they liked their experience here. They are now faculty members at well known universities in Europe. Grad school was in a major metro area in the Northeast. Universities in smaller towns may have less appeal for European students, but you may be open to new experiences.

18

@MYOS1634 completely agree with you that the current insanity must end at some point, but I can’t imagine that it will end with the UK going back to full EU membership, rather some kind of customs union plus EEA solution and political infighting for years to come. EEA students aren’t currently offered home fees and probably won’t in the future.
Agree that Scottish universities are an option, with the caveat that the student might not be eligible for BAföG loans and grants after leaving the EU, though there might be an exception similar to Switzerland. Not that anyone is able to prepare or predict changes in legislation at this point of uncertainty.
OP, with your grades you might be eligible for the Studienstiftung, which might give you more financial options. You might ask your principal if they would consider recommending you, or you can apply on your own.

19

Thank you for your replies.

I have also considered UK universities; and while they aren’t as expensive as their counterparts in the US, they are still far from affordable (at least in England where they charge 9000 pounds per year). Except for Scotland, where Scottish and EU (not from England) are exempt from paying tuition. Also, Scotland wants to remain in the EU, maybe it would even leave the UK to do that. I have been looking at The University of Edinburgh, but the uncertain future of the UK discourages me from going there.

20

Well, uncertainty shouldn’t stop you from applying anywhere, or you might just as well start commuting to the university nearest to you this fall and be done with it. It’s still almost 1.5 years until you could actually start studying abroad and by then things should be, if not better, at least clearer.
Good luck.