Re post #119: I feel the same way about a lot of desserts, especially chocolate and any kind of cake. Or any of the “warm spice” kind of desserts – gingerbread, pumpkin pie, even apple pie. For whatever reason it just doesn’t appeal to me. It doesn’t tickle my pleasure centers the way it does other people, so I just don’t partake. No big deal.
I do serve pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving, though, even though I don’t like it. I just don’t eat it.
(PS – just to be clear, the above does NOT apply to tart fruit-based desserts, like lemon tarts, or peach, apricot, or plum tarts or pies. Those I crave! Or even better, a nice little glass or Sauternes to end the meal.)
Desserts really do not do it for me either. A couple of forkfuls and I am satisfied. After that it becomes sickening sweet to me. I never order dessert at a restaurant - H does though and he will share a bite or two with me. If we are out for a special dinner in a nice restaurant, I will sometimes order a glass of champagne for dessert.
As far as whether wine is part of our Thanksgiving - absolutely. It flows all afternoon and into the evening long after dinner is finished!
Alcohol/no alcohol, hosts’ choice. Just please don’t do as one couple did during our neighborhood dinner club. This couple was taking their turn at hosting and the attendees all knew about and respected that the family’s religious beliefs would mean no alcohol served. OK. When the guests were all seated for dinner they were given their choice of beverage, water or…milk!
“I agree there are regional differences, which probably at least partially reflect the predominant religions in each region. Living in the Northeast, where Protestants and Catholics are plentiful, drinking is part of the culture for weddings and other forms of entertaining.”
I wonder what the rates of alcoholism are in different cultures. I think of Jewish culture being less alcohol dependent than others, but that might just be Reform-world, not Orthodox.
My3sons, years ago we went to a Christmas party on a Friday night … The hosts were LDS so we knew there would be no alcohol. No problem … Having been raised Baptist, I know that there are a lot of festive beverages out there that are non- alcoholic. But we were still taken aback by the only beverage option. Tap water. Not even ice. Just the glass put under the kitchen tap.
I mentioned this discussion to a friend, who reminded me of France’s recent refusal to refrain from serving wine at a dinner with Iranian officials, thus causing cancellation of the dinner. Some people won’t host a dinner without wine even for geopolitical reasons!
I don’t think I would host a rehearsal dinner without alcohol. It would be one thing if it was a religious issue for the families, but because it’s an issue for the restaurant? I’d find another place. Can’t imagine being angry if someone had a dry dinner, however, my assumption would be that they didn’t want to spend the money. And if the host didn’t want to spend the money, fine, but it would be nice to have access to wine that I could pay for. I have gone to a number of functions where the food is paid for, but the bar is pay as you go. Many places it would not be expensive if you just had them bring decently priced bottles of wine and pitchers of beer to the table, so people don’t order drinks themselves (which could be more costly).
If you are having dinner with a bunch of people that you might not know, it is really nice to have a glass of wine or beer that you can sip on. It’s not a deal breaker, however, I can see people eating dinner, getting out of there and going to a bar they can hang out at separately. The night will probably end fairly quickly, but maybe that is preferred. I just went to a fun rehearsal dinner where everyone paid for their own food and drink, and it was fine.
"
If you are having dinner with a bunch of people that you might not know, it is really nice to have a glass of wine or beer that you can sip on. It’s not a deal breaker, however, I can see people eating dinner, getting out of there and going to a bar they can hang out at separately. The night will probably end fairly quickly, but maybe that is preferred. "
As a non-drinker, this is the part I don’t get. What difference does it make if you do or don’t know the others well? Why can’t sipping on my soft drink or iced tea be just as nice? I went to a dinner on Wed night with three other people - one we hadn’t seen in a long time. The others ordered wine; I was fine with just tap water. How did that change anything? Are the others thinking I’m a party pooper or something?
I too cannot understand the necessity of alcohol to have a good time at dinner. I rarely have a drink with dinner mainly because my husband almost always does. Twice in the last 2 weeks I’ve been out for dinner with groups where no one chose to have alcohol (and there were no tee-totalers among us). Somehow we managed to maintain hours of lively conversation being fueled only by iced tea or water!
PG, I’d be the one ordering the wine even if the 3 others didn’t. I went out with a few people from pilates class, and I made a point of saying id pay for it. (Then one gal asked for separate checks for all).
At a special event for library patrons last night, wine and champagne was served. It appeared to me that everyone had a glass, but I didn’t really pay attention.
Since all my closest friends drink, I’d always be prepared with wine, mimosa, sangria. I d also have coffee/capuchino. I don’t have friends who drink a lot, but they’d would assume I’d have something if I hosted an event.
This is why I said initially, I’d pick a venue where alcohol was allowed.
I guess it would be hard to understand as a non-drinker, but in a social setting, it is just more enjoyable to have a glass of something tasty in your hand. That warm glow, just feels better. Of course, in the morning or afternoon, in a social setting, I get that warm glow from coffee. Particularly if you are in a group where many people don’t know each other, it does tend to loosen up people’s tongues and make them feel more comfortable if they’ve had a few. I don’t ever get drunk, but it is a habit to enjoy a glass of wine or two with dinner, particularly in a social setting. It is a pleasure,
On why some people like a glass of wine at dinner with strangers:
A lot if people have a touch of anxiety around social events and wine relaxes most people.
For people who regularly have a glass of wine at a social event, the brain starts to make a connection between the feel of a glass of wine in the hand and that sense of relaxation. Just holding the glass induces that relaxed feeling, even before a sip.
That’s my theory and experience anyway. The feeling comes on with a sip or even from just the bouquet.
Plus, the long mental association between wine and pleasure in the brain means that the arrival of the glass unconsciously signals or triggers the transition from one mode of being – focused, analytical – to another – relaxed, more open.
I don’t need a glass of wine to make that transition but it is a pleasurable shortcut. It is not at all about overimbibing; a small glass will do.
Very interesting. I guess for me there’s no link between wine and pleasure. It’s just a beverage choice that is less tasty to me than just having iced tea or whatever. I don’t think it relaxes me; it just makes me sleepy. When I do drink it, it’s kind of “social conditioning” - oh, you’re supposed to have a glass of wine when you have brunch with a girlfriend, but to be honest if it all disappeared tomorrow I’d be fine. I seriously wonder how much of the appeal is biologic vs social conditioning, and if for me I just happen to have taste buds that don’t value it!! Could I have developed them? As I said, my parents drank socially in moderation; I just can’t get the appeal, and it’s not out of fear of alcoholism or moral issues with it.
I wonder the same about coffee - how much is biology vs social conditioning. I do drink coffee but I’m not one of those has-to-have-a-cup types!
I very rarely drink alcohol and I never drink coffee. Never acquired a taste for either really. But, as a hostess, I do offer both to my guests just because its the hospitable thing to do and, yes, the social custom.
Dessert,on the other hand, I REALLY like. I’d be disappointed to be a guest at a dinner and not have dessert offered to me just because the hostess didn’t do desserts. I’d still enjoy myself but I’d feel cheated.
I get the ritual of after-dinner coffee but is it the coffee itself that makes the difference? Could hot tea serve the same purpose? To me it coul d but maybe to others it couldn’t.
^For tea, definitely in England, Morocco, India but not in the USA. It is cultural conditioning to a large extend, I believe. In parts of Argentina and Chile, it would be mate.
Thinking about my comment re: no alcohol or coffee but loving dessert, I guess I should have been a Mormon.
Being a gracious host means providing for your guests. H and I host social events in our home several times a year (Thanksgiving dinner, card group, summer barbecues, etc). We provide a variety of beverages. For example, we always serve beer as an option even though I do not drink it. H will not touch coffee, but he will make sure that it is an option. Neither of us drinks non-diet soda, but we know some of our friends do, so we provide it.
It would be different if our faith prohibited these options, but it doesn’t so we serve what our guests prefer.
I was trying to think of a way to explain why people enjoy alcohol and why it is, for many, an integral part of a social gathering. It’s certainly not that most of us can’t converse or be comfortable with other people without it (although it does ease social anxieties in some folks). Last night was Friday night and I had a long work week and I looked forward to getting home, doing a little exercise and then choosing a craft beer to enjoy with dinner. I don’t have one every night- but I enjoy beer or wine.
I just can’t think of anything comparable, but if someone doesn’t like the taste or understand the attraction of alcoholic drinks, that’s certainly not a problem. I don’t like prime rib or lamb! I have friends that swoon over steak houses.
