relationship doldrums at midlife

Parent Cafe
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<p>To the op, how old are you? There’s a point in women’s lives where suddenly we are like what the heck? How did I get here? The kids are gone, and finally we rediscover who we are. There is this void, not empty nest, but void, where we feel we have lost ourselves. And we see that we want things to be fun, light, easy, free, as they should be!!</p>

<p>Yes relationships are “work” but that work should lead to something good. Like working out is hard, but there is a change and a better us afterwards. If a relationship is all work, is worth it? </p>

<p>You had a successful marriage for many years. Maybe it’s done. What reason should women or men stay unhappy for decades just because we put time into something. Sometimes it time to be done. I have a couple of friends who said their marriages weredone. And it was.</p>

<p>For others, they are able to stay together becuase they spend lots of time apart. </p>

<p>For me, if I’m not laughing anymore,then that’ll be the time to say goodbye. People live alot longer on average then we used to. Thirty years with someone is a lifetime.</p>

<p>And confession time, as this is anonymous. I have stepped out. Many more people “cheat” then you can imagine. Its not the end of the world. But don’t confess. That’s just stupid.</p>

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<p>But if the man you marriedboresmyou to tears, doesn’t much care about your day and the sex is non existantant? No amount of classes can make that a good life.</p>

<p>For me, I look forward to seeing my husband, but I know many women that don’t . They dread going home. </p>

<p>I am not saying one person is responsible for ones happiness, but youndont have to continue being with someone who doesn’t care anymore,who doesn’t even notice you are unhappy. </p>

<p>Who said marriages need to go on and on and on and on…</p>

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<p>While I think at times I am where the OP is, other times I think all is good. My husband and I started dating at 16 and were married at 23. We were best friends and lovers early in the marriage, but that has definitely changed some in the 32 years we have been married; not in a horrible way, just different. </p>

<p>We do things together, or more side by side. For example, we are sitting here on the sofa watching tv, but we are also both on our laptops! I think my husband is the typical male that doesn’t always listen to what I say; he most likely usually hears blah, blah, blah coming out of my mouth. While med don’t make the best listeners, women tend to be nags, and I will admit to my share of nagging.</p>

<p>Because of this thread I have decided we need to do more together instead of side by side. He loves to hike with the dogs on the weekends and has always asked me to join; I enjoy the time home alone without the dogs, but will soon change that. I told him I would start walking with him and the dogs on the weekends, at least one of the two days to start. Now that the kids are grown and gone, the dogs get all of our attention :slight_smile: I don’t like to exercise, need to exercise, and need to reconnect with my husband; this is my start! I told my husband tonight and he actually seemed excited. He said I needed hiking/trail shoes like his and he was getting them for my birthday; I didn’t want to tell him I already purchased them today while out :)</p>

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<p>Neither of us are big on romance. But, for us, marriage and relationship has never been work. If it wasn’t for watching my friends struggle, I don’t even think I’d know what that means. (I don’t have great interpersonal antennae.) Cancer, heart attacks, my death, etc. - now that has been work. Kids were always a divine pleasure - we homeschooled the kids and had a blast! (She told me before I recently went to Ethiopia, with a twinkle in her eye, that I shouldn’t bring any kids home with me.) We have both always found ourselves in service to others, and I stand in awe that we found each other. (She literally moved into my house before I’d ever met her, she stayed, and we never dated.) I’m probably more “touchy-feely” than she is. </p>

<p>When it comes to practical day-to-day stuff, I learned long ago that she’s always right. So I never have to sweat the small stuff (and, honestly, neither does she.) We realized long ago that we could keep a cleaner house, but it would ruin our relationship. She’s a dog person, I’m a bird person, so we have dogs and birds. She likes it cool, I like it hot, so I schedule much of my international work for the winter. When we go to a restaurant, and are given a menu, we know that we will choose the same thing, so we both look for our second choices so we can share. We both like anchovies on pizza. She fixes cars, does drywall, plumbing, and balances checkbooks. I cook, and find interesting new things to do. We both like to give money away to help our friends, both here, and nine thousand miles away. </p>

<p>I get pursued by other women all the time (most of them married, it seems). Usually, it turns out, I’m oblivious. (as I said, bad antennae - everyone else seems to notice.) Other times I think it’s silly. What part of “married” don’t they understand? My wife is flattered and amused. She keeps me around as her “eye candy”, and now that I’m retired, I’m a kept man.</p>

<p>I’m a lucky guy! :)</p>

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<p>Good job, snowball! Walking the dogs is one of my great pleasures in life. Hubby and I just got back from the movies…my husband decided to take the afternoon of Presidents’ Day off! Some days are good, when we forget about the cancer, and his mother, and enjoy something in the present, like all the flowers in bloom or the snow on the mountains (this being Southern California, the snow is a fleeting but special moment). Thanks for all your support, guys. Sometimes I wonder how my life became so horrible. Then I go buy a lottery ticket, thinking my luck is so bad, maybe I am going to win a million bucks. Meditation helps. As do friends. And my sisters- thank God I have four. They are my back-up plan. There is always at least one I could go live with.</p>

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<p>(P.S. I should have added - not in a million years would my wife or I ever read a book about marriage - no less TALK about it!) (But we might write one - it would be an entertaining work of fiction.)</p>

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<p>DH needs to feel like his world is under control. Goes back to his chaotic dysfunctional family where he had to be the adult at a young age. He has a very successful career in crisis management and contingency planning – his ability to see the chinks in the armor and the disasters around every corner serve him quite well at work. At home, it’s not so much fun to live with that. </p>

<p>He is quite happy to DO things in a crisis – he just doesn’t want to feel the emotions. He is great at doctor’s visits where he can interrogate the docs – but not so great at comforting me when we get the answers.</p>

<p>His mom was bedridden and mentally ill for years. My health issues set off hard-wired warning bells in his mind. He won’t go to therapy, but I do. I’m not good at saying what I want, and after a certain point, when I <em>do</em> say something and I’m not being heard, I just quit and withdraw.</p>

<p>Zooser, thank you for your kind words.</p>

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<p>My W andd I are working through the book The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work (had problems that sounded a lot like those of the OP). I think it’s a good ‘guy’ book because Gottman is a good scientist with research backing his claims, so his books aren’t like those where the author just seems to pull a bunch of platitudes out of their backside. I’ve also had to see a counselor for a couple of things, but I’ve had them help me with this weird ‘discussion anxiety’ problem I’ve always had… it seems that if the conversation gets personal and even a bit confrontational, I just clam up and can’t keep talking because my stress starts to build up. Of course I could just polish off a bottle of wine every time I need to talk and get a similar effect, and get a nice case of cirrhosis to match…</p>

<p>One thing I have done that is really eye opening was to keep a one-page calendar in my appointment book wherein I cross of a date if I actually do appreciable housework on that day. I have to tell you, I was pretty appalled when I saw how few Xs were showing up on that calendar. I could have sworn I did 5x that much housework… Heh.</p>

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<p>mini, and she is a lucky woman!</p>

<p>StatBeast1- I just BET I can find fewer cleaning days than you…:)</p>

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<p>I read many of the posts yesterday. Several people have mentioned books by John Gottman. His stuff is research based. I would recommend any of them. I would also recommend visiting his website for some marriage tips. I wish I could go to one of his sessions but it’s on the other side of the country for me. Our marriage therapist was a student of Gottman. He is very good, and the proof is in the marriage I have today.</p>

<p>Several years ago my marriage was like many mentioned here. We were concerned enough to see a therapist for a short time them, but little did I know my spouse had already given up. A year and a half later my spouse told me he wanted a divorce. A short time later I discovered he had been having an year long affair with a married woman, my age, from his past. I won’t go into all the gory details, but he moved out for several months. When he returned, he was a broken, confused man. I’m not saying our marriage is perfect today, but it’s darn good. I am still healing mentally as it takes time. </p>

<p>Like others have said, I was completely shocked by the divorce request and by the affair. Even in the face of massive evidence I denied it was possible until I had concrete proof. I still experience times of great anxiety, but with lots of therapy I am better at working through it. I also ask for H’s help when needed. </p>

<p>So my marriage advice is this. Have fun! Date each other and take nothing for granted. Even if the date is just a movie and popcorn at home, do something together. Take time daily to talk to each other about the other’s dreams, fears, hopes, etc. Gottman has a great phone app that sends suggestions of topics daily as do several of his books. Create rituals. I saw one on yahoo the other day: upon departing and reuniting during a day kiss for just 6 seconds. We now hug and say “I love you” every single night before bed. Hold hands. Compliment your spouse. Gottman’s blog has several lists of things you can do. It may feel one sided for awhile. It may feel artificial. I can tell you from first hand experience that the alternative feels far, far worse. </p>

<p>My marriage was over the brink, not just on it. We made it back with lots of hard work and a new love that was based upon the old love, but different.</p>

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<p>DH and I are married 29 years, and I can only speak for us; certainly there have been strained times but in the end we are committed to the vows we made and each other. The things I love most about him can also be the things that make me crazy — single-minded problem solving is great with a crisis, not so great when you just want sympathy and time to whine. I have learned that he is not responsible for my happiness, I am. I have also learned the hard way that what I “know” he thinks about something may be completely wrong, and he deserves the chance to tell me himself. </p>

<p>We are new to the empty nest and find it hard, too, at times. All the concentrated attention is bizarre! We sat down and talked about things we might like to do together, what we could do apart, and stuff like that. He likes to paint, I cant draw a straight line, but we like art museums and he can teach me a lot. I love to cook, he cant boil water, but I am teaching him basics so I dont feel guilty when I have dinner dates with my female friends. It isnt work, exactly, but it is a conscious, intentional plan.</p>

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<p>For me, I think we sometimes need a check-up in which we both say “the life I want to have includes this person and the family we have created together” and really mean it. Our lives tend to be insane because of work schedules and the fact that I commute around 3 hours a day. It has taken years for both of us to come to an acceptance of why we made the choices we made and change the ones that were not productive. I tend to need more private time than my husband does, which is a point of contention, but I also need a lot more physical intimacy. Which amuses the heck out of him. He is a chubby guy married to a very in-shape woman and I’m the one who does the chasing! But as long as he lets me catch him, we’re all good.</p>

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<p>Snowball, I love your hiking story. :slight_smile: Let us know how your first day of hiking goes!!!</p>

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<p>There is an ebb and flow to marriage. Your spouse is going to die. We are all going to die. We are temporary. I look at my wife and I see a human being with wants and needs. So, the thing I try hard to do and sometimes I fail is I try hard to be nice. Attitude and atmosphere make a huge difference. You come home, you want to feel good. So does your spouse. So…feel good. Generate warmth. </p>

<p>We have so little control of our lives. We would like to think we do, but we don’t. Being 5 or 6 feet tall in this world isn’t much. Just look around. You don’t really make a footprint. So because we have so little control and there is little we can count on, we can get sick tomorrow, I want my wife to know she can count on me. I am going to be loyal and faithful to her. She doesn’t have to worry that I am going to he unfaithful to her or run out on her. Every once in awhile I am going to go crazy and yell and scream, but that is about me, not her. Sometimes, less now than I used to, I just need to explode. It is every few years now. Sorry. I’m not perfect.</p>

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<p>“We are all absolutely perfect beings. And we could all use a little bit of improvement.” - Zen Koan</p>

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<p>Reading this thread has me thinking about my parents, who are in their early eighties. I’m sure that when they were in their fifties they experienced what many here are going through. Instead of facing the problems and trying to make the marriage better they just let things slide. My mother got more involved in volunteering and other outside interests; my father turned inward. The marriage continued to decline and eventually reached the point where they should have divorced but they were not willing to do the work or make the sacrifices necessary to end it. Now they are bitter, resentful and full of regret. </p>

<p>My friends who have hit serious rough patches have for the most part either worked hard to save their marriages or decided to end them; there isn’t much of the “festering” that my parents chose. I can understand the “stepping out” and don’t see it as the marriage ending event it used to be. As for “But don’t confess. That’s just stupid.” the lack of honesty would be a greater problem for me than the infidelity.</p>

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<p>This is such an interesting discussion. I appreciate everyone’s varied points of view–and it is good to know there are others in the same boat, especially those whose boats have managed to change course.</p>

<p>I hope I haven’t left this too long. I really looked outside the marriage for emotional support when I realized that I couldn’t get that from my husband.
We had some major life events going on the last few years. And I don’t mean ‘small stuff’.</p>

<p>10 years ago, one of our kids was deathly sick. The burden for care fell almost entirely on me, on top of my job. When kid #2 had a health crisis more recently, I flat out told him I needed him to stick with me and be involved during it, because I could not do it alone again (we had discussed/fought over what occurred during kid #1’s illness; he feels I am unforgiving about that, I was willing to forgive but unwilling to repeat the process).</p>

<p>I really hit bottom for a while. When I would bring one of my worries to him, he would only listen and then not respond. And I mean, not a word. (even when I’d ask him to respond “please, tell me what you think?”, all he’d say is ‘what do you want me to say’). </p>

<p>Now, he’s not a totally silent type. He’ll talk about sports, politics, movies, etc. “Things” not feelings. One of two things would happen if I talked about deep worries–1. he’d not respond or quickly dismiss/change subject “she’ll be okay” or “I don’t know what to say” OR 2. if I looked for more support, we’d get into a fight, and I’d feel worse than when I went to him for comfort.</p>

<p>If that sounds too awful, well, as long as I don’t share any uncomfortable feelings, things are fine. On the surface. He helps out around the house, he is always up for what ever I suggest doing socially (though he rarely sets anything up). I began to lean on friends for support; for a while I did see a therapist, who helped me see that he will probably never be a touchy-feely feelings kind of guy. </p>

<p>As the empty nest loomed I built friendships and outside interests. We are kind to each other. But I feel more and more distant as a couple. I have brought up this distance before, this feeling of we are heading different directions. I think would stay in this distant state forever. This is the kind of marriage his parents have, and it suffocates me to think of spending the rest of my life like this.</p>

<p>But I still care about him. I don’t want to hurt him. I’m surely not in love with him, but I once was. I love our family and hate to think of not having that. Maybe we can work through this. I’m going to read all the suggested books/web links. Thank you all for your support. I do have a friend IRL that I can share this with, but I do not like to share too much with her, as she also knows my H. I don’t want to talk about my H behind his back to our friends. I even feel bad talking about it here, but it is a relief & I think it is helping me get my thoughts in order.</p>

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<p>Have you considered couples counseling? I think a lot of this is caused by different ways of communicating (or refusing to) and if you can get advise on practical ways to bridge those differences you can make things better. You seem to have a strong foundation to work from; kindness and respect count for a lot. (My parents’ relationship lacked both.)</p>

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<p>Yes, 1more, we are going to pursue counseling. My big reason for beginning the thread was to see what to look for in a counselor–for any success stories or pitfalls. But it did turn into a bit of vent session…sorry about that.</p>

<p>It’s up to me to find and arrange the counselor; I asked H if he had any input on type of therapist, or even gender of the therapist but he said whatever I wanted. I’m not sure what to look for in a counselor. Do any of the men here think that a male might be better? I want H to be comfortable. I want this to work…some upthread have mentioned various schools of thought that counselors may be affliated with, I’m reading up on that.</p>

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<p>Artmama, IMO you should not feel bad at ALL about bringing this issue up here on CC - you reached out for help and that is a good thing.</p>

<p>Maybe others would know if this is possible, but I’m wondering if you could “screen” a couple of potential counselors yourself first to determine if they might work for you both before you decide on one and bring your husband in - would a counselor do that - let you chat with them in person for 10 mins to evaluate their face to face vibe???</p>