<p>Some things never change, but I hope at least that this generation of boys understands that contraception is equally their responsibility.</p>
<p>As for what we allow in our house, our S & D are now at the age (both grown) that they would never have sex in our home unless they were sure we were away for at least 24 hours. And we would never come home early!</p>
<p>It’s a good thing our parents were so “clueless” or there might be quite a few less of us around.</p>
<p>barrons makes a good point.</p>
<p>Life is what happens while you are making other plans.</p>
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<p>I’m impressed.</p>
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<p>LOL… at least they wouldn’t have to worry about pregnancy… just what to do with the kid’s empty room</p>
<p>“He actually sat down with me yesterday and told me never dreamed how his misjudgement on the rules and even the sex could affect so many others.”</p>
<p>“I’m impressed.”</p>
<p>Haha I’m not…That’s just a highly intelligent 18 year old male trying to sugar up his mom to lessen his punishment. I would know, because I’m a highly intelligent 19 year old male who would try to sugar up his mom to lessen his punishment!</p>
<p>Joking/cynicism aside, you really just need to put the ‘sex’ part of the issue to rest. Teenagers have sex; hormones tend to have that affect. Just be glad they used multiple forms of protection and that you raised a son who is mature enough to want to discuss it with you. He’s got a good head on his shoulders.</p>
<p>Keep punishing him over breaking the ‘house rule’, though.</p>
<p>“That’s just a highly intelligent 18 year old male trying to sugar up his mom to lessen his punishment”</p>
<p>Still impressive. Plenty of 18 year old males could care less.</p>
<p>Yeah, years of inculcating guilt does that to you.</p>
<p>losing the phone can be mighty good instentive to try and make amends. Whatever the motivation is.</p>
<p>When I hear about D friends geting grounded and such, it really didn[t have an affect on their behavior may postponed cerain actiities, or made them more subtle, but didn[t really have the desired affect of long term change I think the parents hoped for.</p>
<p>Yes punsihment have its value, but fo an 18 year old mand going off to college, pouty mom who is angry about the boy having his gf over and breaking house rules, while he may feel bad he hurt his mom and lost her trust, he still is gonna have sex and be with gf alome</p>
<p>I hope im not flamed for my opinions, but they are just mine so think of them what you will.</p>
<p>You’re overreacting, simple as that. The pill isn’t fail safe, nor are condoms, but statistically the chances of them both failing are so tiny its not worth thinking about. Why does your family being religious have anything to do with this? God wont smite your son for doing what kids do. Its life. You shouldn’t expect him to live up to your beliefs on sex and marriage.</p>
<p>I agree that he should respect that its your house, but honestly you really need to let it go.</p>
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<p>Why is that something to rejoice…? :S</p>
<p>“God wont smite your son…”</p>
<p>I don’t pretend to know, but do you?..just sayin’…</p>
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<p>Obviously i can only speak for myself (like i said in the beginning) and what i believe, but no, i dont believe he will. And nor does the Church according to my priest.</p>
<p>What surprises me about this thread is that the majority of posters do not understand the OP’s disappointment in her son’s choice. I am also wondering if I am the only person who personally knows dozens of couples who did wait until marriage to have sex. I’d like to address these separately.</p>
<p>While I do not wish to speak for the OP, nor can I, I do think I can understand the POV of someone who raised their child within a conservative faith. Orthodox Judaism, Christianity and Islam all teach that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Obviously, many posters on this thread disagree with that premise, but it is what those religions teach and there are many, many people in the world who take their faith very seriously and to whom their child’s spiritual welfare, in their minds, rests on the child following that faith. It is not simply a matter of “oh, your values aren’t the same as mine and that’s part of growing up.” It’s a belief that if a child veers off from the tenets of the faith, they are actually in spiritual and moral danger. I do think it’s important to understand that these parents are coming from a place of very real concern for their child’s soul – not just being mad that the son or daughter is making choices they don’t like. I personally believe that parents should love their children no matter what, and I also believe that being a parent assumes the risk that your child may not make the choices you would want in many areas of life. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t painful for parents who love their children when they make choices that are inconsistent with the tenets of the parents’ faith. </p>
<p>That said, I have read a plethora of posts about how unrealistic it is to expect people to abstain from sex. Am I the only person who knows tons of people who abstained until marriage and went on to have years (the young folks I know) or decades (the older ones) of marital happiness that included a full and satisfying sex life? Well, folks, it does happen. It is not impossible. It’s really not as uncommon as our society would have us believe. I realize that the conventional wisdom is that kids/people will just have sex, etc., but it does a disservice to those who are truly committed to abstaining when all they hear over and over again is that it is a foolish goal that can’t be achieved and when all they see in the movies and on television is people having sex before they know anything about the other person. </p>
<p>Anyhow, I think the OP is doing a great job of handling this situation. Being a parent is a tough job – hang in there, you’re doing great.</p>
<p>"That said, I have read a plethora of posts about how unrealistic it is to expect people to abstain from sex. Am I the only person who knows tons of people who abstained until marriage and went on to have years (the young folks I know) or decades (the older ones) of marital happiness that included a full and satisfying sex life? "</p>
<p>I know 2 couples who married mid 20s and the women were virgins.</p>
<p>I know one woman who was a virgin at age 30.</p>
<p>Even the people whom I know who are in conservative religions weren’t virgins at marriage.</p>
<p>The OP has a right to her values. However, a lesson that virtually all parents learn is that at some point, our offspring select their own paths, and those paths may deviate from how we raised them.</p>
<p>We raised our children in a rather tight corner of a fairly conservative community, and our sons abided by the norms of the community when growing up, stifling though they were…they were also very secure, and they grew up with many good role models in adults who were good parents. There isn’t much room to deviate from expectations in a community where everyone knows everyone’s business. I realize that their abstinence in HS in other words was largely attributed to circumstance, not our wonderful parenting.</p>
<p>This however lulled me a bit into not thinking clearly about the Wide World that we helped them escape to at age 18. Honestly, your chance to influence your children’s values and impulse control mechanisms is pretty much over by their late teens. I found when my two sons went to college…that I wish I had been more explicit with advice about sexual conduct and its impact on others…why? Because frankly, this is the last time it is your business and if you have something to say, for goodness sakes spell it out with your kids now before their mentors are their peers. I personally believe that a 20 year old should be going to their peers for advice and for discussing ethical/moral aspects of their love affairs, and I respect my sons’ peers rather much in fact. I understand that my sons need a strong peer network of friends who can support them in the murky decade that is the twenties after the rather sheltered four years of college ahead of them. Although I miss being central to my sons’ for discussions of their personal identity issues, I am not jealous that my role has receded. It is my greatest wish that they want to do child-rearing in somewhat a similar vein to their own childhoods…but that they also find a new and wonderful group of young adults to “grow up with” and to attend their weddings and christenings…</p>
<p>In the OP’s issue of the week, I do feel for her…it is unsettling to have a sexually active teen who has been reckless before you have prepared yourself mentally to consider that your son or daughter will choose to be emancipated from your family norms. I appreciate her forbearance with this advice on CC from all of the readers. We only chime in because we all know this is something that is absolutely an issue on our own doorsteps.</p>
<p>So…here is what I talk to my sons about. Although my sons had some church upbringing, we are not actually believers in abstinence till marriage. I have told them both this, and asked them to consider the consequences of a long set of years as a young adult without marriage. Instead we talked about the long twilight zone before marriage in this century and how marriage in an agricultural world was of course much much earlier as was reproduction and child-rearing. </p>
<p>I tell my sons not to trust a girlfriend for birth control. They must also use condoms until they are of age to take full responsiblity for a pregnancy. I also encouraged them to delay being sexually involved with anyone who they are not able to feel emotionally accountable to…and who they don’t know very well. I told them that whether they realize it or not, their sexual history with most young women will effect that person in a more permanent way than they may realize, so they should consider the emotional consequences of casual sex on others and not kid themselves that they can’t “hurt anyone.” I want them to realize that few people can actually manage random sexual contact without hurting someone.</p>
<p>I asked them to consider that if they are grown up enough to be ready to have sexual relations, they should be ready to do it completely sober, and should avoid any temptation to use alcohol as an “excuse.” I asked them to not get involved with anyone they wouldn’t want to spend time with in broad daylight also sharing other aspects of life and other kinds of intimacy and friendship.</p>
<p>I asked them to consider that a boy is more likely to be held accountable for date rape when alcohol is a factor and I asked them explicitly to never be sexually active with a girl who was impaired. I think they were horrified I said this, but come on. Boys have a terrible time understanding boundaries and girls can have a hard time setting them when they are both drinking. </p>
<p>I also discussed the wisdom of abstinence till more maturity and self knowledge has time to set in as they are away from home. If you don’t have a clue who you are yet, you might not want to be in a relationship where a girl is counting on you and relying on you. I personally feel that it is weird to be sexually active when Mummy and Daddy pay for your cell phone, food, shelter and clothing and you don’t even have personal space that you pay for yourself in any way. In other words, the twilight zone of delayed adulthood with college going on for a long while…leaves our kids with “maturity” and “independence” in weird compartments and complete dependency in other arenas. I think it is hard to manage your sexual life gracefully when still dependent on Mom and Dad for rent. I hope my sons wait a bit till they start assuming more and more self direction in life…and in all fairness both of them immediately started managing their lives pretty well at age 18 and beyond…showing a good bit of responsble decision making. I certainly hope that level of thinking about long term consequences will be something we can also see when they are close to a young woman in their lives. But we will have to wait and see…just like when they leave behind the wheel of a car…you have those two thoughts…Lord Protect My Child but perhaps more so…and may he never hurt anyone else by any lapse of judgement and attention to consequences.</p>
<p>these are the few things I managed to get out on the table…</p>
<p>Faline2, wonderful post. You articulated what may have tried to say.</p>
<p>I grew up in a Catholic, conservative household, we all went to parochial school, we all turned out differently . My parents would be horrified to know that we all were sexually active before marriage, but, our choices/paths were grounded in their teachings to us to be reponsible, caring adults. I expect no different for my daughter.
We broke our parent’s rules, not because we wanted to hurt them, but because we were teenagers and thought we could.
Husband and I don’t hide our head in the sand and think Daughter is going to abide by all our rules. Life just don’t work that way. She knows our expectations and that is all we can hope for.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, even with my upbringing and my peers, I don’t know of too many people or couples who abstained before marriage. I grew up in the 70’s, middle of the sexual revolution.</p>
<p>Faline2, fabulous post. I spoke to my dd about sex in the same way. We didn’t talk about safe sex or diseases or pregnancy, as she has heard all that at health class. What we talked about is how sex will affect her emotionally, as a woman, and how that is very different than how a man, especially a very young man, will feel. I don’t want her to think that sex is bad or that guys are “bad” because they want sex, it’s normal and healthy, but guys just don’t understand that sex is different for girls. I don’t think most girls understand that.</p>
<p>I also told her that in today’s world, I don’t think it is realistic to remain a virgin until marriage, but that she should be very careful with her emotional self, and not entrust that to just anyone.</p>
<p>couples need alone time. adult couples, because they are typically cohabiting or at least have their own residences, have this in plentiful amounts. not so with teens.</p>
<p>teens usually get to spend time with their significant others only when surrounded by their peers and other people, in school, at parties, on dates, etc. They need time alone together to do couple things (and i’m not talking about physical intimacy. i’m talking about stuff which is just a bit too awkward to do in the company of others, i.e. looking all googly-eyed, snuggling, etc.). </p>
<p>If you don’t allow your teens time alone together, they will find opportunity to do so anyways. And once they disobey that parental mandate, they’re in enough trouble, so they might as well do other things. </p>
<p>OP’s kid seems very mature and responsible. Mature and responsible enough that given such flexibility in how he spends time with his girlfriend, and given that he can recognise a trust you have in him which you take very seriously, he is more likely to respect your wishes as to what they do when you’re not around. </p>
<p>I can’t say that I’m very conservative-minded in this regard. a) I’m a teenager, b) I don’t think sex outside of marriage is necessarily a sin, particularly between mature, responsible, committed, monogamous partners. Therefore, I think it’s a bit pointless to expect your children to remain chaste until marriage. But I think you should be thankful that this particular transgression involved a young woman with whom he has a relationship with all these qualities, instead of some girl who he met at a party and hooked up with. There are many a parent who would envy you in this regard.</p>
<p>mimk6 in post 193 may be referring to me as one of the majority. Ok if so, ok if not. But in case I am, then mimk doesn’t understand my position. I’m not posting here to debate the pros and cons of unmarried sex; or the % of married people that had sex before marriage. That isn’t what Op is seeking, as I understand her.
My position is that the OP tells us of what she found out about her S. He’s been lying/sneaking around, sex with gf, and having guests in her home specifically contrary to her rules. She has lost a great deal of trust in S, and deservedly so. However, it isn’t until post 60, if I am correct, that she really clearly says her punishment is for his breaking rules having a houseguest, yet in may posts before that she discusses only points of view about the premarital sex.
So my position isn’t that only one is a big deal, or that both are ok, or any combination of answers. My position is that she needs to be clear to the S- much clearer than she is here- what exactly he’s being punished for.
As others have said earlier if it’s house rules, then the punishment is the same whether he was in the act of sex, or just playing checkers. If it’s not the houseguest rules, but was the sex, then the punishment would likely be different. Either way, the trust is gone.
One thing I strongly agree with OP on is that her S, at 18 isn’t a man. We have never believed a child is a child on June 11, but a man on June 12(18th birthday). We have always made that clear to S; it is not a recent definition for him to hear. We include “self-supporting” in how our family defines a man. We feel if Mommy and Daddy are providing the home and paying the bills just as we did when S was 9, then S is not yet a man even if he’s 22. We feel he can make all his own decisions in his own household just as we make all the decisions in our household.</p>
<p>I’d sit him down and say, “Look, mister, this ISN’T the Oval Office…”</p>