"But it seems that they desire to convert people, to share their faith so others can be saved. "
Tell that to the Mormons who keep coming around to my house, or the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
“You don’t hear about Christian preachers encouraging violence”
Look up Pope Francis’s trip to Africa this week, where he went to a mosque in the Central African Republic that was surrounded by Christians wanting to kill them. There has been Christian attacks on Muslims in that country that’s ongoing. Kudos to the Pope for speaking out against this.
"I am disgusted that Obama apparently said “it could be terror related”
There we go. The “blame Obama” starts in. “Could” - what is your definition of the word? Did he say that in a head nodding way after someone told him the guys name? Like, “OH! That’s his name? Well, it COULD be terror related then!!” (me shaking MY head)
Yes, I’ll correct you if you might be wrong. Lots of reason to expect this “could” be terror related. If you can’t see that in any manner, I’m not going to try and convince you that it “could”.
CNBC is reporting that the guns were bought legally ‘years’ ago by ‘someone under investigation’. Was there a conspiracy?
If Farook was in the party, left and then returned within a short time, he must have had the wife, the guns, the masks and the GoPro cameras in the vehicle. Redlands is too far from San Bernardino to go and return in just a few minutes. I just heard someone associated with law enforcement on the radio. “Word on the street” (so don’t know the reliability) is that he was planning an attack somewhere else but that this holiday party presented an opportunity and he took it. If that’s true, then this was definitely terror and not workplace violence.
There will be another press briefing at 9am. Pacific.
It strikes me as a particularly insidious form of terrorism: it makes people think: is that Muslim who works in my building going to attack me? It’s awful.
I say it was both because he certainly seemed to be armed physically and mentally to behave as a terrorist but the fact that he chose to shoot up his fellow employees at a staff party indicates there was something or someone at that workplace that became the immediate catalyst. A cold calculating terrorist could walk into a shopping mall and wreak as much or more havoc and not be concerned about survivors immediately identifying him by name to the police. So I do think there was an element of “he snapped” to this story.
Like others, though, I cannot fathom the decision of the mother of a six-month-old to go along on this massacre. It truly boggles.
They dropped the baby off at Grandma’s earlier that morning saying they had a doctor’s appointment. Plus all the stuff they brought with them. It was coldly calculated rather than a ‘he snapped’ situation.
I think rhandco is probably right, it sounds like purely a workplace violence issue. However could someone consider anything else?
When you think of it, he probably just had all those deliveries to his arsenal over the last few weeks because he was building a cool collection. I mean, everyone needs body armor and a face mask, right? Probably was for a Halloween costume. Target practice, what’s wrong with that? Pipe bombs, oh, who hasn’t built those? He was probably angry because someone asked him to pass the ketchup at a holiday party, and just snapped. Those GoPro cameras they wore were probably just for a neat looking accessory.
I do feel for Muslims, or anyone who even appears Middle Eastern in this country. This kind of thing perpetuates fear even more.
"I say it was both because he certainly seemed to be armed physically and mentally to behave as a terrorist but the fact that he chose to shoot up his fellow employees at a staff party indicates there was something or someone at that workplace that became the immediate catalyst. A cold calculating terrorist could walk into a shopping mall and wreak as much or more havoc and not be concerned about survivors immediately identifying him by name to the police. So I do think there was an element of “he snapped” to this story.’
Or maybe it was because he knew where there were going to be a large number of unarmed people in a confined room, in a place with a fairly easy getaway. It may have merely been familiarity, and only the first target.
In a shopping mall, there could be armed security guards. You have no idea who in that mall has a gun. But you probably know if any of your co-workers are packing a gun. And if you are trying to survive, and not attempt a suicide attack, you go for the confirmed soft target, in my opinion. In a shopping mall, people can come at you from any direction, not just from a hallway or one door.
" Seriously? You think this is just workplace violence? The guy just flipped? He just got mad at a party, and went postal?"
HE WAS AN EMPLOYEE. Do you think terrorism means going back to your workplace and shooting it up?
So this is “insidious terrorism” because he thought to shoot up his workplace?
How insidious is it to kill little kids in their kindergarten class? How terrorizing is it to do so?
We have to agree that either the crime itself - killing many people armed to the gills and not caring if you survive - or the motivation - political and/or religious - is what defines terrorism.
If it is the former, Sandy Hook was terrorism.
If it is the latter, then of course we bring in vandalism, discrimination, and other non-lethal crimes as terrorism.
I do not agree that someone can be mad at their co-workers, and somehow rationalize that “hey, maybe I can get them and call it terrorism!”. There are CLEARLY many more targets that would be more appropriate for terrorism. Workplace violence does not equal terrorism.
And OH MY GOODNESS - they dropped their baby off with GRANDMA!!! Before going to a holiday party??? OH MY!!!
“Like others, though, I cannot fathom the decision of the mother of a six-month-old to go along on this massacre.”
He supposedly found his wife online and then went and brought her back. I would not be surprised if she was the master mind of all of this. And maybe the baby was unplanned? Plus there are plenty of stories of moms killing their own kids so a mom killing others doesn’t surprised me. There are a lot of evil people in this world.
They were building IEDs in their garage. A neighbor thought their was suspicious activity but did not report it for fear of being accused of racial profiling.
Could be, busdriver. Maybe a clearer picture will emerge today about their plans.
Dear considered himself not only Christian in name but personally saved by Jesus Christ. According to his ex-wife, Dear felt that he could do anything he pleased and it would be forgiven because he was “saved.” Talk about distorting religious belief to justify violence.
*Hot-tempered and unstable, he “erupts into fury in a matter of seconds,” said Dear’s second wife Barbara Mescher to attorneys. In her time with Dear, she testified, she continually “lived in fear and dread of his emotional and physical abuse.”
“He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions,” Mescher said. “He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end.”*
CNN panel of ex-law enforcement personnel are hypothesizing that they went back to the townhouse to “resupply” for second attack somewhere else. Also reporting that the shooter was “radicalized.”
Something someone said a few pages back made me want to point this out (below). (Of course now I don’t remember why.)
In America, if you are a Christian, you don’t need to do much to practice your religion, since almost everyone is Christian. You can find a church on almost every street corner and, if you’re looking for a particular denomination, probably in every town. However, in America, if you are Muslim and want to practice your religion, you need to actively seek out mosques and other Muslims. It’s harder.
" The shootings in Colorado Springs were definitely terrorism with a religious basis, and there are many discussions about “should we call him a terrorist?” and again, as far as I can tell the only reason NOT to call him a terrorist was due to being white and Christian. "
I have yet to read or hear anywhere that Dear was religious / practicing Christian …if anyone can point me to a source that confirms anything factual about him other than is white and declared " no more body parts " or whatever he said to that affect.
Also , we have been warned that ISIS intended to hit soft targets . This would appear to be such a target and also, I wonder if it wasn’t some type of practice run for something bigger , which would explain why they fled instead of blowing themselves up in the attack
