In some cases (like the PP attack), there is enough evidence of motive to at least suggest why the attacker(s) did what they did. In this case, there just doesn’t seem enough information to advance any one theory over the rest. The target is unusual, the desire to escape is unusual, the multiple gunmen is unusual. It is horribly weird, and horribly tragic. I hope that the police are able to piece together a motive, because I cannot see one and the two (of three?) shooters aren’t going to talk.
I’m so curious about what this will turn out to be. If they were ISIS-inspired, wouldn’t they martyr themselves? What’s the point of going there earlier and then going back? Clearly there was some premeditation, but why today? Maybe the holiday party was a red herring.
If this is indeed in any way linked to Daesh, it seems out of character. They usually go in, cause as much death as possible, and die in the process. To go, only target a specific group of people, and then leave seems odd.
(x-post with cosmic)
The other name released is that of a Qatar citizen.
Why do I expect this thread to go quiet when it is found out it was not white Christian terrorists who did this? Thereby, denying the narrative of their usual nonsense about Christian terrorists and gun control, since it would not be gun crazy Christians. But just to show how reflexive and non-thinking some posters are - I have not heard one Christian name earlier, or yet for that matter, but one of the first posts talked about listing Christian terrorists. Brilliant, just brilliant.
I’m sure it will all come out in the fullness of time. They have a lot to go on now and it’s just a matter of putting the pieces together.
Because you’re angry that other posters have pointed out that the majority of terrorist attacks in the US are committed by white Christian males, I suppose.
However, you’re going to be quite wrong about this thread. For one thing, it’s a mystery. What is the motive for this terrible crime?
If it’s Islamic terrorism, then why did the shooters shoot up a center for the developmentally disabled? That doesn’t seem like a natural target for Daesh or Al Qaeda. And why, if it’s a jihad thing, didn’t the murders blow themselves up and send themselves on to their imagined paradise?
On the other hand, if it’s a workplace shooting, why were there three people involved? Shooting up a friend’s or relative’s workplace because of the friend’s or relative’s quarrel with other employees is not so appealing. Who wants to die or go to prison just because their brother had an argument with another employee? The game doesn’t seem worth the candle, for the people not involved in the dispute.
^^^^ Maybe because you see mass shootings as something where people need to reflexively choose up sides as if we aren’t all against them. Not everyone thinks that way, though.
We’ll never go quiet.
You’re kidding, right?
Let’s look at the white Christian terrorist thread vs the Islamic terrorist thread traffic:
http://www.clipular.com/c/4778118358237184.png?k=pQq_1L_AVGpCbsYvSKUcS8o1hik
Huh… seems like one had way more traction than the other.
In the PP shooting they had an obvious political target (not that I think it should be) and a statement from the perp in custody. In this case the target appears to be a more opportunistic work place target and witnesses said that the shooters did not speak at all. I’m not saying that it won’t turn out to be ideologically motivated all or in part but it is not a given at this point. Maybe it will come out that he has made statements at work or has inflammatory materials in his home. As many have pointed out on other threads the possession of semi-automatic arsenals and other “tactical gear” is a hallmark of all American hobbyists and in no way indicates anything untoward about a person. It is not unusual for a woman to be a shooter either. In fact, it is a healthy family hobby and essential for self defense. MORE women should be shooters, really.
Wearing masks and not speaking could have been a way to try to mask a grudge based attack as something else. They seemed to not want to be identified and to escape. They went home and hung out for a while and seemed to only get back in the car and head towards the scene after his name was already out there in various media outlets as a possible suspect. They may have realized that the game was up at that point.
As was pointed out up-thread, it is a tragic and disgusting indicator that when a mass shooting happens we can’t even tell what it is RE motivation.
I guess Islamist terrorists would be magically immune from any kind of effective gun control, so according to aw what’s his name (I can’t be bothered to learn it), there’s no reason for us even to mention it. In fact, as Romani correctly points out, crazy Islamist terrorists with guns are an equally “popular” topic here.
Not just their brother, but possibly their husband. If Farook was indeed one of the shooters, he and his wife have a six-month old daughter whom they left with a relative this morning, and went out together. It seems that his wife may be the woman who was involved. Terrorism mixed with a workplace dispute? Given that instead of blowing themselves up, they tried to escape?
That poor little girl. Not a chance that she’ll ever have a simple life now and it’s in no way her fault.
I hope she gets adopted and this is hidden from her.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/us/san-bernardino-shooting/
Farook is (or was) 28, and his wife 27.
“Huh… seems like one had way more traction than the other.”
Maybe because the Colorado Springs attack involved one shooter, who killed three people, and the Paris attacks involved several people who killed 130 people at numerous places, and spread massive terror throughout Paris? That is stating the obvious, though. There is quite a difference, so obviously the widespread massacre got more attention.
“Terrorism mixed with a workplace dispute? Given that instead of blowing themselves up, they tried to escape?”
It amazes me they thought they were going to get away with this. Wore vests to protect themselves, went home, and actually thought they weren’t going to get caught.
The whole thing is weird. The pieces are all slightly off of usual patterns. It seems as if they might have thought that they would escape but maybe not. The officers are doing a good job of waiting until they have real facts to disseminate them and not to speculate (as we can do from our arm chairs). They have been working on clearing potential bombs up until now so haven’t has the leisure to comb through the sites yet for evidence of motive.
^^^ the more prevalent pattern is that terrorists make it abundantly clear who they are and why they are taking action. They did not. It doesn’t mean that it wasn’t supposed to be a terrorist type attack just that it doesn’t fit the pattern in all elements. As they trace the guns and see what is going on with the bomb construction it may become more clear.
When people say things like “all the Christian terrorists” it seems paradoxical to me. I find myself thinking “those people were not Christians.”
First, let’s define Christian, so we’re all on the same page:
- One who believes in Christ and tries to follow his example (be good to others, forgive people, be respectful and helpful, etc.)
We know from Criminology and Abnormal Psychology that all murders are either pre-meditated or crimes of passion/rage: either the perp planned it or he did not.
An act of terrorism would logically require some planning, because terrorism is carried out to achieve not just death, but some deeper, broader effect. A terrorist, therefore, cannot be following/with Christ while he or she is planning or carrying out the terrorist act. Christ never condoned murder; we aren’t even to quarrel or be vindictive - we’re to settle our differences peacefully.
So someone cannot be a Christian terrorist, because they kicked Christ out of their heart/life when their insane hatred started, likely long before they carried out the attack. Maybe “former Christian” would be more accurate and acceptable, if the perp actually was.
Now in terms of crimes of passion… those can happen so fast, I suppose a person could get mad, do the crime, then feel badly about it - maybe still a Christian, just had a lapse of judgment for a minute or two. Nobody’s perfect. They’ll have plenty of time to repent in prison, if that’s the case.
But to plan something like what happened today, or any other ore-meditated murder – Christ is not in that act. I just wanted to share that with you guys.
And – maybe it’s the same with Muslims. Maybe those who plan murder are not with Allah either. I need to consider that too – can’t make my point and turn a deaf ear to their similar plea. I understand now how it’s not fun to be painted with the same brush as others who may, at one time, have believed as I do. Stereotyping blows.
“the more prevalent pattern is that terrorists make it abundantly clear who they are and why they are taking action. They did not.”
Do you mean because they weren’t yelling Allahu Akbar or something like that?
Perhaps they were waiting until after the fact to post their purpose, since they were wearing GoPros. Hard to claim insanity or workplace violence with a GoPro on.