Besides the possible early-early cases (Jan-Feb), I’m skeptical about much of an undercount of COVID deaths. With the feds stepping up to pay many COVID bills, including 100% for the un-insured and Medicare, coroners/states have a financial incentive to test them for coronavirus even in autopsy. Sure, they may be behind running labs, but hopefully will catch quickly.
I agree that the colleges may have to move to a hybrid approach. I think this move will be easier for science and math classes. (Even before Covid19, my kid’s professors at his tech school were posting their lectures online for kids to view later.).
I think the online classes will be more difficult for the humanity type classes where typically there is a lot more interaction/discussion going on during the lecture. Class participation and debating is a big part of the learning environment at my younger kid’s LAC. Class participation is not as big a part of the learning environment at my other kids’ tech schools which makes it easier, in my opinion, to have those classes online. ( I still think the kids need to be on campus to interact and learn with their peers, though.)
Since at-risk groups make up a large percentage of the US adult population, it is likely that we will end up with the worst of both worlds: the economy kept down because many people will reduce economic activity (like buying things in stores, going to restaurants, travel, etc.) due to virus fears, but the virus will remain out of control because the less risk averse will continue to spread it.
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Not directed at you @Savvydog , but just feel the need to say this…
I understand why WHO is saying this. They do not want governments making policy based on the assumption that antibodies and antibody testing is a key to reopening. And I, myself, have repeatedly cautioned that we don’t know whether antibodies = immunity and for how long.
HOWEVER, “There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection.” is not the same as “There is evidence that antibodies do no protect from a second infection.”
It’s like when someone disappears and the police say “There’s no evidence of foul play.” There still could be foul play, but they just didn’t leave any evidence.
With respect to college campuses reopening in the fall, I vacillate between optimism and pessimism
This week our state began adding “probable” but untested COVID deaths to the official count, going back through old records to do so. (It is easy to imagine the inaccuracy there, as nearly all respiratory illness deaths could be conceivably counted as COVID.)
At my daughter’s lax it’s not perfect but class discussions are going on. By fall they already have a clue how to improve these experiences.
Traditional college the way we all thought of it is over. You will find hybrid integration is lots of things on campus that we just didn’t think about. Learning services, tutors, meeting with professors etc can all easily be done online and actually to some degree might be more efficient. Does the student really need to get a bus for 15 minutes to go talk with someone about X? Not anymore. Just schedule your appointment and Zoom into your meeting. It’s already happening in medicine video visits were really like maybe a few years away for the masses. Well guess what? It’s up 2,000% was an article I just read and it’s not going away.
Same with education. They will leverage this technology and use it in ways we didn’t even think about. Why does this all remind me of the cartoon the Jetsons? So many things in that are actually coming true now ?.
That’s interesting - I would think it would be somewhat the opposite. D21’s dual credit English class is now just as interactive as it was in-person. Live sessions online with the same people speaking up and interrupting on Zoom (or Skype, I don’t remember which) and the same people not saying much - it’s the same. The interaction hasn’t subsided or changed. The key may be to have that live Skype/Zoom component.
Upper level science courses that require expensive lab equipment that people don’t have in their homes would be difficult to do online. Intro science courses where things can be done using mostly household items or easily obtained lab kits, sure.
Yeah, class discussions are still going on at my kid’s LAC, but it is not the same even though the content is still high quality. The personal interactions and relationships between the students and the professors are what drew my son to his LAC to begin with. Had Zoom professor meetings and online class discussions been the norm when my kid was looking at schools, he would not have chosen his LAC. He misses interacting with his professors and friends in class, in-person.
My daughter has 13 days to go. She said it will be the longest two weeks of her life. She is so done.
Aren’t all of you dying to talk to people in person? Be near each other again? We are humans and can’t interact online forever. Well, college kids are the same way and learning is better in person with real life people and connections being made. I do not believe that there will be a giant shift to online classes. It’s not a satisfying experience to look at someone on a screen.
Now, if someone is just looking to learn information that leads to a degree, I suppose that’s a different goal. We don’t see college only as a means to gather knowledge to do a job. That cannot be accomplished online. And, again, all of these kids would have just taken classes at Southern New Hampshire online if this is what they want out of college. The on campus experience is not going to completely die off. I think that’s a pretty pessimistic view.
My comments were geared more towards class lectures. I don’t think labs at any level work well online.
And one more thing…get ready for many news outlets to report “WHO says antibodies do not protect from a second infection.” Just as they do when they report “Police do not suspect foul play.”
Outside the small group of high school seniors who either have high end academic credentials or parents with plenty of money (of course, these students and parents are the predominant ones on these forums), most who go to college will head to commuter colleges where cost and academic content (including pre-professional preparation) are the important (or only) criteria, while the college experience and prestige that so many here prioritize are unaffordable luxuries for them.
@roycroftmom Reading this later so my response is late and someone may have already commented on this.
But THE reason other large states and cities have had lower rates of infection is Social Distancing… much earlier in the process those areas issued SAH orders and slowed the spread.
Now there is an urgent seeming need to open back up and do away with those social distancing measures… this may very well undo all that social distancing did in the first place.
We can probably all agree on the following:
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In-person classes are generally better than online classes with the same professor.
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Some classes are better suited for an online format than others.
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Some students can adapt better to online classes than others.
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Some professors do a better job giving online lectures than others.
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Online classes aren’t going away, even after this crisis, and in fact, there will be more online classes in the future.
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The quality of online classes will improve as more colleges/professors/students get use to the format.
Some colleges have announced intention to have in-person classes, with online option for those who cannot get back to campus. If this means that in-person classes will be online capable for those who cannot be physically present (for any reason, such as being sick with anything (not just COVID-19)), that will be a good thing going forward generally.
I agree with that. Some colleges and some professors are already doing that. More and more in-person classes will likely be recorded (some even streamed in real time).
@Momzilla2D, I appreciate your civil response and I agree with a lot of what you post. I share your semi-skeptical view of WHO proclamations (and for me, the CDC for that matter), but I believe that they are presenting their cautious, professional view of the current data and research.
If the science changes, I think the WHO will announce their changed view and so will I. From everything I read right now, the jury is still out on whether mass immunity is possible.
University decision makers would be (legally) foolish to ignore this current WHO stance on immunity. Of course, the WHO research view could change tomorrow.
There will most likely be some form of liability shield for businesses and schools to protect them from lawsuits is employees (students) contract covid. If legislation of this type is not in place our economic future is done.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/04/will-colleges-be-open-coronavirus/610657/
Apologies if this has already been posted. No new answers, but I found it an interesting take on how schools are approaching the decision and what they are/are not prepared – and preparing – for.