Science-loving HS Senior from Los Angeles [4.0 GPA (4.00/4.31/4.69 for UC), 1470 SAT, <$30k, CA resident]

It seems like as their popularity increases, the merit decreases.

2 Likes

Astronomy and Wildlife Biology in particular require expensive equipment and facilities (observatories, agricultural land), so you are not likely to find both at a smaller, undergraduate focused college. Here are some colleges which offer majors in all 4 of your interest areas:

UC Davis
Cal Poly Humboldt
Cornell
Florida
Oregon State
Arizona
Washington
Georgia
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Vermont
Maine

The last two on the list are particularly interesting because all of the others except Cornell and Cal Poly are large state flagships. Although these two (Maine & Vermont) are state flagships, they are not large. Vermont has about 11,000 undergrads and Maine has only 8,000. Vermont has the benefit of being a “public Ivy” but it is not cheap for an out of state student unless you can get a scholarship, which you may be able to do. Maine has the benefit of offering a “flagship match” program whereby you pay the same tuition & fees that you would pay at your home state’s flagship (Berkeley) as an instate student. (California is a qualifying state for this flagship match program; not all states are.) In addition, room & board there is likely to be cheaper than it would be at a UC campus.

2 Likes

In fact merit is basically about attracting students they know are very likely to have other good options which they might well prefer. The merit is then about trying to get them to choose their college instead.

1 Like

I’m not an underrepresented minority. I would prefer to stay on or close to a coast so I haven’t looked much at landlocked Western states. I have family in Charleston, SC and Savannah, GA and am open to parts of the South (NC, VA, and GA). Are you saying UGA would be a good option, or that the scholarships available there are too competitive?

I visited UC Santa Cruz and wasn’t crazy about it. It felt too remote for me, and lacking in athletics and school spirit. I know kids who are really happy there but it didn’t feel like a good fit for me. My UC GPA is 4.526

Good find! What a difference! :scream:

That’s happening at more colleges than I think people realize these days.

Like consider Bowdoin. 76/6041 for Internationals, 1.26%! Apparently being need blind for Internationals is great marketing. That leaves them 881/8004 domestic, 11.0%. Still pretty low, but not like their overall rate of 6.8% including Internationals.

Again, I don’t mean to suggest that this is exactly equivalent to Carleton. But I do think very low International rates are causing some potentially misleading impressions of what is really going on with domestic acceptance rates at various colleges.

5 Likes

The UGA scholarships are extremely competitive. I’d want to see your SAT scores higher.

If you have family in Charleston definitely look at USC. It’s maybe two hours away? Check out the School of the Earth, Ocean and Environment (SEOE). Rah-rah, honors college, likely affordable for you. By the coast but there’s water for sure. And humidity? If that’s your thing :heart_eyes:

They are both WUE. I didn’t list based on size but you are right - they both meet all things but size.

1 Like

According to their COA numbers, this Humboldt would be in budget

Also, as you learn more about some of these schools, consider what you mean by the “research access essential to my academic goals.” I am not a scientist and to be honest I would have once assumed that meant an R1 land grant or flagship.

My daughter is at a school that is neither of these – and got a position in a lab as a sophomore. She just presented a poster at ACS. It’s not a super prestigious school – but she is getting hands-on lab experience, mentorship, and she is receiving generous financial aid. And having a wonderful time at school!

I don’t mean to say “look at this particular school” – but think about what “research access” might mean to you. Skills? Mentorship? Prestige? Pick a couple of schools on your list and try to get a sense of what opportunities are there. Who gets research positions? How competitive are they? What do undergrads actually do?

It’s not as sexy as putting together a list of schools but worth digging a bit deeper IMO. For private schools or those with “why us” supplemental essays, taking the time will also strengthen those applications so it’s a win-win. Good luck!!!

3 Likes

I’m saying - if I had a $30K budget, unless I was gung ho on a school like UGA, I’d let it pass by - because you can only apply to so many schools without getting overwhelmed and while UGA could, in theory hit target, so if you have the capacity to apply, then it’s ok. But it’s likelihood to hit target is likely (I don’t know but guessing) - 3% or less.

A Georgia Southern (not far from Savannah) doesn’t seem to differentiate in and out of state for merit - but a Coastal Carolina - which will be slightly over for tuition, room and board, is aggressive for out of state and easilycould get under - but not assuredly. It’s 2 hours North of Charleston.

U N Florida has a GPA based table - and you’d qualify for $14K off. Assuming it’s automatic, you’d hit. It’s a few hours South of Savannah.

The “definite” to hit are the ones I noted above like Alabama, Miss State, UAH, Ole Miss, Kansas and more - they have tables - your GPA and test are x, you automatically get Y off.

But UNF and Coastal Carolina might work too - in that regard. Coastal would have larger geographic diversity - not large but gets a NE contingent. I imagine UNF is local.

Georgia Southern might be worth a look but best I can tell it wouldn’t hit. But you can call and ask if they have a higher set of merit OOS as most schools do.

The WUE - in the land locked states - and if you’d go larger, you’d have more options.

But there are LACs too - and that’s not to say one won’t work. You can look at Truman State, SUNY Geneseo and not an LAC, but SUNY ESF which shares some components with pricey Syracuse U.

I’m just looking for the “assured” - and to save money, the CA community college system would work too.

I’m sort of looking for the just in case safety nets, etc.

1 Like

Probably too much $$ off campus anyway.

I’m convinced you can do research anywhere. When kids say that - that’s everywhere. My kids had so many requests - I think there are often more spots than kids interested. That might be different at privates but a lot of kids say they want this going in and then realize what it entails (not glory) and don’t go for it. These tenured faculty all research - no matter where they are.

2 Likes

Oh I know, my kids chased merit, my daughter definitely had better offers from other schools, but still chose Clemson. There are many oos parents on the parent Facebook page who’s student chose Clemson over cheaper schools because they loved Clemson. I think my daughter could have attended oos SUNY Bing for half of Clemson tuition after merit.

However, if they think UCSC is too remote, then this must be off the table - it is an order of magnitude more remote.

1 Like

Oooh, I missed that! YEA, Humboldt is out there!

If you’re looking for backups, you can add a couple more NESCACs. Trinity and Conn come to mind.

2 Likes

With regard to smaller liberal arts colleges which are committed to meeting full financial need, for your interests, I would begin with SUNY ESF, which stands for Environmental Science & Forestry. The undergrad enrollment is about 2200. Cost for an out of state student da useis about $40,000, but about $5000 of that can be offset by their flagship match program, which is available to California residents. ESF also has a scholarship program specifically earmarked for out of state students called the Mighty Oaks Scholarship, which you would be likely to receive. This would bring your cost down by another $3000. Now you are close to your $30,000 target and they have a variety of other scholarships for which you would be competitive.

At ESF you can explicitly major in Environmental Science, Environmental Earth Science, or Wildlife Biology. For hands on experiences in these areas, ESF has a satellite campus in New York’s 6 million acre Adirondack Forest Preserve. And in fact, ESF is the oldest college of its kind in the country.

What about Astronomy? ESF’s campus is literally across the street from Syracuse University and was at one time administered by SU. It is almost like an extension of Syracuse and the two are integrated in many ways, including reciprocity for courses, full use of Syracuse facilities, gyms & dining halls, and participation in many Syracuse clubs and organizations. Syracuse University also provides the athletic events and big time campus vibe that you are looking for. With regard to academics, Syracuse offers an Astronomy major within their Physics Department. Although ESF students must take their primary major at ESF, but they can take a minor at Syracuse (but there is an extra $355 per credit fee for courses not required by your major). However, if required by your major, there is no extra charge. So, an ESF student who majors in Environmental Science with a specialization in Earth & Atmospheric Systems Science can take Astronomy courses in Syracuse’s Physics/Astrophysics Dept as part of their major with the only requirement being a routine sign off by their major advisor. That’s the loophole if you don’t want to pay extra for Astronomy; it just requires a little planning. And as an Environmental Science major, you could even include Wildlife Biology courses while still getting Astronomy courses if you plan it.

5 Likes

3 Likes