<p>MichaelNKat-
That was the situation I was commenting on in post #20.</p>
<p>MY D was invited on a spring senior trip to somewhere in Mexico, unchaperoned- she did not go, though her friends did, and were fine, but it was not a smart trip to me.</p>
<p>Same D was invited to a mountain cabin weekend as a frosh with dormmates- it was “okay” but not a great time, no details provided, she just did not really care for that group any more. The same girl drove another group to her families mountain cabin the bext month, SUV w/8-9 kids, car accident, slid off the road into a tree and while almost no one was hurt, a tree branch broke one window and that passenger was killed. A short time later that girl moved out of the dorm to face legal charges- every one in that car was high at the time. So, in college, they made their own choices and they were still bad and had severe repercussions. I am not sure if the family ended up with liability, we heard no further details after she moved out, but it was sad & scary and I understood why DD did not care for that group and was so glad she was not on that trip!</p>
<p>Another D recently borrowed my SUV to drive a group of her HS friends, all 2-3-4 years post HS now, to a popular ski resort two hours away-using one family’s condo- i have no clue whether their was adult supervision, but I know all the kids and there was nothing illegal and nothing was trashed, but with the same group of kids, I would not have loaned my car for the event when they were in HS- they have to grow into the responsibilities. Freshman year seems the riskiest, in that they are pushing the envelope of having no supervision, but why let them start in HS?</p>
<p>karp4170 - It was a situation that required some very considered deliberations. In our case, our daughter was living in many respects as though she was already in college because of adult responsibilities she had assumed, including working as a performer for a professional entertainment company that booked events that would often have her returning home after 1-2 am on weekends. Taken in conjunction with her succesful experiences of attending summer college programs where she was essentially “on her own”, we reached the conclusion that she could handle the situation. Our one absolute caveat was that she had to drive herself and we had to approve who would be in her car. We wanted her to have the mobility to exit the situation if necessary, as ultimately was the case. Our resolution was not the right one for others and I totally understand why other parents would reach a different conclusion.</p>
<p>My kids schools each had a party held immediately after graduation - planned by the parents.</p>
<p>I volunteered to chaperone for the senior class all night party last year at younger D’s school and I had a blast- it was really a lot of fun ( although earplugs are a must!) & even though not everyone attended- fundraising had been done to bring cost way down & there was about 9-10 charter bus loads full of students and chaperones.</p>
<p>Traditionally junior year parents, volunteer as the seniors don’t want their parents around. :(</p>
<p>My kids would know the answer before they even asked. Even with an adult present they can be sneaky. Another Mom told me the story of taking 5 seniors to her ski condo. She was home all evening. They did have a few friends come over who also were up at the same time. They went out to the hot tub with water bottles. When she went out to check on them she suspected all was not right. The water bottles had vodka and gin. She packed up her crew and headed home that night. 10 pm. She called the other parents on the drive home. 3 of the parents gave her flack for bringing the kids home early. Only 1 called to thank her. Her son thought she was the meanest Mom in history.
My son is now a college freshman. He talked of going this coming weekend to a ski resort 4 hours from school and staying at a classmate’s family cabin. When I asked him last night if they were going he said NO the parents had vetoed the idea. I think they made a good call.</p>
<p>I would not allow it. And “the mom was talked into it”??? We actually had the opposite. We go to our condo skiing every weekend. Our soon-to-be 18 year old son wanted to stay home & ‘chill’. The answer was still no. High schoolers need supervision. As others have mentioned, it’s not so much that you don’t trust your kid, but you may not trust the uninvited guests who often show up at homes without adults.</p>
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<p>That’s why we have just said no, and our kids would have to accept it - even in the best vetted, most carefully researched situation, things still go wrong. I wouldn’t want my son to know for the world, but we might consider letting him go on something like that as a senior - although after hearing your story, maybe not, you did everything reasonable, and your child showed great maturity, that was perhaps a learning experience for her.</p>
<p>I keep telling myself that we are teaching them lessons about safety and common sense that will last them through college and beyond - hoping that when they are college and find themselves in the situation that your D was in (or in high school for that matter) they can get themselves out.</p>
<p>As I’ve told my 16 year old son - if we let you do whatever you want to do now as a junior, what privileges will you get next year as a senior, and if you get unlimited privileges as a senior, what do have to look forward to college for? He had no answer for that one, because he knows that our foremost concern is his safety and the safety of anyone who rides with him. He doesn’t have a hard curfew, for example, he just has to be in 30 minutes before anyone else, and never later than 11 except under chaperoned circumstances. I even went to the local music festival with him, because I was appalled at the teens running around until midnight with hundreds of drunk adults all around - I’m the worst and coolest Mom in town, I wouldn’t let him go alone, but i went to see Blue Oyster Cult (those guys are OLD!)</p>
<p>“& I worry cause Ive heard it burns calories?”
EK- my metabolism ADDS calories when I worry ;)</p>
<p>I’d say no to the OP situation.
We’ve had 3 different versions of the senior trip for our 3 different kids:</p>
<p>1-Six girls to a family owned condo at the beach without adults; the big beach week plans for the rest of the class were at a location in a different state. We knew most of these very responsible girls well.
2-Next kid (>18) paid a beach week deposit of his own funds, without our knowledge or approval. We were considering but not comfortable the plan; but our kid did not get to go when family rule infraction took place before the event. (Over 18 but financially dependent).
3-Nine or ten person co-ed group to a family owned lake house with the owner present. Kids planned, shopped, and prepared all meals. They had a blast.</p>
<p>cangel,
Hubby took a minivan’s worth of 9th and 10th graders to a local rock festival with multiple stages. He coordinates timed check-ins and meeting place and goes over the no illegal substance policies.
He brings home 2 of his charges with new piercings; one was ours! Apparently, parental consent for minors was ignored at this venue.</p>
<p>“However, do any of you distinguish between this and what has become the annual “Rite of Passage” of seniors going to a rental house at the shore after their senior prom in the late spring?”</p>
<p>Yes. I am not a fan of the post-prom beach house tradition, but seems to me that the ski rental house is riskier. All of the risky issues of the beach house carry over to the ski house, plus some. The only thing worse about the beach house is that there is no reason to leave the house so much more alcohol can be consumed over the course of the weekend.</p>
<p>It is easy to lie around on the sand in large groups, but it is difficult to coordinate a day or two of skiing with that many people. The kids will most likely ski at different levels, which will split up the group during the day. Just think of all of the duffel bags and ski gear piled up in the rental. Ski equipment can have problems, some people may need to rent equipment, and so on. The logistics alone (meals, cars, cash) are daunting, and that doesn’t even include weather-related problems, accidents on the hill, accidents on the road, the fatigue of kids skiing and driving after staying up late partying, the fatigues of kids who are trying to keep up with their friends and skiing over their heads, etc. Just thinking about the kids loading into cars for the three-hour drive home, after a long weekend of skiing and socializing, makes me concerned and they’re not even my kids.</p>
<p>Problems can occur even with parents right there, as a result of dumb decision making. It doesn’t matter if they are “good kids,” high-achieving students, etc. In high school, my son (an experienced skiier) attended a chaperoned youth group ski weekend at a large New England mountain. While skiing with a small group of the kids, they foolishly decided to leave the trail and within minutes became lost on the undeveloped side of the mountain. It was only their cell phones (which thankfully worked) that kept them from spending the night on the mountain, as they were able to contact the Ski Patrol who helped guide them out verbally by describing landmarks. They finally made it to an access road, in darkness, and were able to call a local cab company who drove them back to the mountain some 15 MILES away. They waited a long time for the cab to find them. Everyone was safe, no one was hurt, but their poor decision making caused hours and hours of great concern for the adults and kids on the trip. It could have turned out differently. </p>
<p>A high school girl in our community was killed while she was the guest of another family at their ski house. She was not wearing a helmet (though her mother had packed it for her), was skiing terrain too challenging for her (just for a short distance, and hit a tree. The host parents were skiing a minute or two behind her and were right there when she died on the slope; there was nothing anyone could do. Obviously this is an especially disturbing and non-typical example, but injuries are not unusual with skiing. What if one of these kids is injured while skiing and needs medical attention? Who will be able to take charge, make decisions, coordinate phone calls, liaison with the parents at home, etc.? </p>
<p>With lots (edited because I misread the OP and thought 18 kids were going) of kids in the condo, sexual activity might not be too much of an issue, but alcohol could be. They could stay in the condo and party all night. Will they walk (or worse, drive) to the local restaurant/bar and hang out there all night? Will they try to pick up older/younger chicks or guys at the bar? Could someone get in a fight?</p>
<p>I’m sure I sound like the voice of doom. It can be hard to just say no! But there are very few reasons to say “yes” to this, besides the fact that “all the other parents are saying yes.” I don’t understand the thinking of the parent who signed the contract - what a birdbrain. I hope some of the other parents come to their senses. At the least, I hope some of them rent a ski house nearby so there is an adult presence. For my own kid, if he/she had never done this before, I might suggest getting a group of four friends together and taking them on a ski weekend. It’s not the same thing, but it includes the elements of friends and skiing plus some supervision.</p>
<p>The phrase, “I let her do it because soon she’ll be on her own at college anyway” is one of the lamest cop-outs there is. Talk about passing the buck. As if another six months of maturity (at age 17) will make no difference. As if prom weekend bears any resemblance to an average weekend at college. Most of the people I’ve heard say this apply it to situations in which their kid has absolutely no experience. Talk about a trial by fire.</p>
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<p>Prom weekend is probably pretty tame compared to what is available on an average weekend at college (at least at my college).</p>
<p>And I repeat - you will be a college student when you get to college. Not 6 months before or a year before or a month before. </p>
<p>Parents need to learn to say NO to their kids - I’m tired of being the fuddy-duddy because I insist that the rules be obeyed. My rules are pretty lenient, in my opinion - my daughter had a “boyfriend” in middle school, and her curfew varies according to the event, on a case-by-case basis as seems appropriate. I know kids put pressure on us, and I know that parents want to be their kids’ friend. But I can’t imagine how a mother would go so far as to RENT A CONDO when she even admitted she’s “not comfortable” with the event. Here’s a word to learn, parents: NO.</p>
<p>Friends of our lost their child the day after graduation. The student along with 15 other Seniors were invited to someone’s lakehouse for the weekend. Parents were inside cooking. Kids were outside drinking. Then they took canoes out, and 2 canoes tipped over. It was cold, dark, and 3 kids swam to shore, but this one did not make it. They got the phonecall and had to drive out there, 3 hours away, knowing that there had been no rescue.</p>
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<p>This is just awful, and the second reason that I would say no. I think that kids will feel pressure to try something that they don’t have skills for because their friends are doing it. Those friends might have been skiing since age 3. The person who feels pressure to join in might be on the ski slopes for the first, second, or third time in their lives. BTW, the first reason that I would say no is because teenagers do not have the driving experience to negotiate ice and snow. Add passengers who can distract the driver, perhaps a long driving distance, add lack of sleep to that, and this is a real disaster waiting to happen.</p>
<p>Chocoholic that is such a sad story.</p>
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<p>More adults around? The only adults around in college are professors, and most of them make jokes about drinking, dancing, going out, etc. expecting that its a part of the culture. </p>
<p>It’s not a controlled environment at all; not only do college kids have their own apartment or friends with their own apartment, but when Friday night is over, there’s no way for parents to verify what their kids have been doing.</p>
<p>OK, you don’t like that phrase? Take it out, and the rest of the quote stands. College students can act like college students when they’re in college. Not before.</p>
<p>This sounds way to open ended…heavens…the whole senior class could end up there. There is the issue that this is a rented property as well. I would say no…under the circumstances given.</p>
<p>However, after the senior prom, my kids had friends who OWNED properties and hosted small parties. We knew all of the kids involved. In both cases, a relative of the family lived nearby (one lived in a condo downstairs, and in the second case a relative lived in the house next door…and the relatives WERE there). We knew who was driving, and in both cases the drive was closer than to the shopping mall. It was a one night overnight. Knowing all the kids made the difference. And we knew the family who was allowing the kids to go as well. In both cases, the host families also treated the kids to dinner at a restaurant near the places (with the relatives there to pay the bill). </p>
<p>And lastly, the parents offered this and discussed it with the other parents BEFORE they offered it to the kidlets. These parents were doing this so that our kids would not feel pressured to go to the BIG senior class melee.</p>
<p>You guys are the parents, and you all more than have the right to make these kinds of decisions for the people you’re financially supporting.</p>
<p>I’m just pointing out that 5 months isn’t going to make any difference in terms of maturity, responsibility, etc.</p>
<p>My parents let me do this exact scenario in high school several times over (junior and senior years) with no bad results. I would not let my own kids though. (Luckily they’ve never asked!) My parents gave their kids way too much freedom and so H and I are pretty conservative about what we say yes to while they’re in high school. That said, it really does depend on the kid and the group of friends.</p>
<p>^I agree.</p>
<p>I still think it depends though…I think even if I did take my friends that my parents know well, there’s only so much you can give on before it becomes too risky.</p>