Not if you are ‘covering the plate’ anyway. Yes, you end up paying, but do you really want to be there? If all decide that you are most comfortable going with a last minute decision for mom, I’d happily make the same gift amount and simply not show if mom couldn’t make it. I’d much rather be with my family.</p>
<p>No one is insinuating RSVPing yes, no’showing if mom can’t make it, and then not giving the same gift you would have given…are they? That would truly be poor form that I wouldn’t stoop to.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I’ve been reading this but haven’t responded until now. I totally respect your decision to go to this wedding and your reasons behind it. Your D is behaving how a mature adult does who sees the crazies her cousin and mother are and is turning the other cheek. Of course she feels bad about not being invited but for the well being of her grandmother who she adores, she is putting on her big girl pants and letting her grandmother be able to attend the wedding of one of her grandchildren. </p>
<p>I can’t begin to imagine why people behave in the manner that your sister and her D have behaved. It’s really terrible and has been through this entire episode.</p>
<p>I wish your sister could go to counseling and see how her behavior affects her life. By excluding her family and harboring slights from years and years ago, she is the one damaged. Not you and not your family. We have family members who say things they shouldn’t but to behave how sister does, well, I just think she needs to let go. If she can’t or won’t forgive your mother for her choices 40 some odd years ago, then that is her problem.</p>
<p>Just behave like the bigger person and the one who is mature and not crazy. That is redemption enough.</p>
<p>It’s evil if you RSVP with no intention of attending or sending a gift. It’s not evil if your mom can’t make it the day of because she doesn’t feel well (and don’t underestimate the power of her emotions either helping her get through the day because it’s her granddaughter’s wedding, or conversely completely sapping her strength.) </p>
<p>ZM is trying to do the right thing before she cuts off the relationships. She’s not going to feel good about the situation if she acts spiteful and petty; then she’ll be lowering herself to her sister & niece’s level.</p>
<p>“Covering the plate.” What an odious idea. </p>
<p>Zmom, I honor you for your concern about your DD2, mother, and brother. I think you’ve got a good plan here. See what your mom’s health is like in Oct. You and your brother should make your decision based on that and send in your RSVP’s at the last minute. Divorce the gift from the reception entirely and give what you think is right and appropriate under the circumstances. If you decide to attend but have to beg off at the last minute because of your mom’s health (or change in attitude), the meal is a sunk cost. If you end up going, the three of you should go in one car so that if there’s a need to abort the mission, so to speak, neither you nor your brother has to attend/stay at the reception without the other. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that the wedding and reception that your niece has is the product of her life choices and is not your responsibility. If your mom decides to give the niece a dressing down in front of God and everybody, it’s not your fault, no shame attached to you. It’s a consequence of how your sister and niece have behaved. Hold your head high and look fabulous.</p>
<p>Your sister clearly was put in a difficult position that was not of her making when you were growing up, and she had to make some significant sacrifices. However, it’s been her choice to nurture her grievances until they’ve been her justification for every unkind or selfish act. Not visit her ill father and not show up for the funeral? Exclude her mother from the shower? I keep thinking about the 4-year-old with the knife. It doesn’t usually dawn on kids that their place in the family is being usurped until it happens. What was she hearing at home? There’s going to be a new grandchild, so Grandma won’t have time for you any more… Your aunt won’t love you any more once her baby is born… This is really sick stuff. I’m so glad that after the wedding you are going to cut off this toxic relationship. Your DD’s are so lucky that their aunt and cousin have shown their true colors and they are relieved from any need to include them in their own significant events.</p>
Please, please, please, don’t put this one on me. I didn’t come up with it!!! It’s evidentially a regional thing and something that is a factor to Zoos’s sister. I wasn’t trying to perpetuate this at all, or excuse it in any way. I’m sorry if it came across this way. It’s hard to discuss it if you aren’t speaking the same language. That’s why I used the ’ '.</p>
<p>BI, I’m so sorry! I wasn’t aiming that at you. That’s just been my gut feeling through this whole discussion. Even if it is odious, if it’s the standard etiquette for this family and Zmom feels she needs to honor it she should do so.</p>
<p>Having been through 2 Ds’ weddings, this has been our experience. You have to give an estimated number several months in advance and then a final number a week or two prior to the date. That final number is what you’ll pay for, but there are various scenarios and permutations to food at receptions these days so final costs can vary depending on what type of arrangement you’ve made with the caterer.</p>
<p>I second asking directly about D2. Is it possible your sister is under the impression she is doing your D2 a favor by not sending an invite since you already told her she would be away at school? Some sources say you don’t need to send an invite in that case. I personally disagree - plans and minds can change and your D2 should be given the option to attend or not. And contrary to the “new” Emily Post, as linked below (who often gets it wrong) traditional wedding etiquette holds that an invitation is not an obligation. But I’d make sure there is no misunderstanding your sister’s intent and whether D2 would be welcome if she wanted to come. </p>
<p>After the supposed peace treaty BBQ and your sister’s reaction to your D1’s RSVP, the exclusion of your D2 makes very little sense to me. Although…I thought you originally said ( I may have it wrong) that your Ds weren’t invited because of the major rift with your niece. You also mentioned your sister’s whacked out and misguided notion of “plate covering” as a basis for your D2 not getting invited ( but not sure if that is just your guess or your sister literally said that). </p>
<p>But if your D2 is intentionally being excluded ( where you originally thought none of your kids were being invited) that would indeed be a deal breaker for me, barring future efforts by your sister and niece to resolve the issue and barring the feeling on your part that your own D is responsible for not ending her part of the feud. </p>
<p>As for the insult to your brother - there really was none. While it may be a nice gesture to invite someone with a guest, especially if there are few other singles his age or he was going to be at loose ends or not knowing anyone, that’s really not the case here. People limit guests so that they don’t have to limit people they actually know and who know the bride and groom. It is, however,considered obligatory to include a guest if someone is married, engaged or living with someone. If that was the his situation, he could ask to include his guest, otherwise it would be considered rude on his end to do so. </p>
<p>PS It would be considered beyond inconsiderate and rude if zmom RSVPed yes and then stayed home last minute, unless she had a last minute emergency ( which granted, could have to do with the mom). Caterers usually expect a last minute count several days ahead. At that point, the sister MUST pay for the full head count. Some caterers give a buffer or are willing to add a few at the last minute, but not subtract. Any gift is voluntary and completely aside from the point. Either way, the sister would have to pay for someone who backed out last minute, when several days notice would mean she would NOT have to pay at all.</p>
It’s only standard “etiquette” for that little branch of the family. The rest of us have no idea what to make of that. We were not raised this way. We were taught to be considerate of guests.</p>
<p>
She would definitely not be welcome. She spoke to my sister today and expressed her hurt feelings. My sister simply said that this is what her daughter wants. My D is done with it now.</p>
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That will never happen.</p>
<p>I understand about inviting and not inviting guests, I really do, and I am fine with it for younger people, but I think a special case should have been made for the godfather. Particularly since there are so few in our family that the bride is going to have her hands full figuring out how to seat us. But that’s not my problem.</p>
<p>I think I missed something. I do remember, back in the dim past, that the bride did something horrendous when zm’s D was a baby, but I don’t remember seeing details on it.</p>
<p>If the wedding is in NYC, where is the reception?</p>
<p>I have since learned that some churches have multiple weddings in a day (mine does not), so a couple doesn’t always get the time they want, which may have contributed to the gap between ceremony and reception. I didn’t know that.</p>
<p>Multiple weddings is more common as is multiple receptions on a single day. If they didn’t plan far enough out, weren’t flexible with their date or location of the ceremony/reception they are going to end up with an odd schedule. My guess is they just weren’t willing to be flexible with where they wanted the ceremony and reception and didn’t book this two (plus) years in advance as is the norm in large cities now at more popular venues. Instead of choosing other venues they accepted a lopsided schedule.</p>
<p>This is a minor point, I know, but – I wish people would stop saying that this “cover the plate” idea is a regional thing. I have lived in NYC for many, many years, and this is NOT a NY region thing. I cringe every time I read the phrase in this thread, and think the idea is completely boorish.</p>
<p>SF- anything that sounds like “cover the plate” is a sub-culture thing. Like the families that expect you to give big money to dance with the bride. Or the thing about passing a shoe around.</p>
Good for your daughter for speaking up for herself. I know she said she had wanted to. She probably didn’t get a great response, but wasn’t expecting one either. That’s not the point. The point, IMO, is that she was able to speak to her. It allows your daughter to move on. </p>
<p>This conversation, your DD1 turning down the invitation, the steps you take after the wedding, all form a narrative that say “We are done. We will not allow you to treat us poorly anymore.”. It’s a message your sister may not comprehend for a very long time, but it’s important that it be sent.</p>
My apologies. I don’t know if I did this or not, but if it happened during the course of my conversation I can completely understand how this would be offensive to you! I’ll choose my words more carefully. In this case it’s Zoo’s sister’s belief, nothing more.</p>
<p>Just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse. She actually said that to your daughter? The mind boggles.</p>
<p>After that I’m not sure that I would have the intestinal fortitude to darken the door at this wedding. If you end up going because it’s important to your mom, kudos to you. I’m also not sure that I could give a gift at all under these circumstances. Perhaps I would put together a memory book in a nice album, with family photos and pictures of the bride as a little girl. Maybe I would write down some happy memories of her as a child and include those as well. Then I would write a letter saying the unkindness shown to her grandmother and cousin, I am unfortunately unable to give her any other gift than this memory book and my very best wishes for her future happiness. Wrap the whole thing up in pretty paper and either take it with me to the reception or mail it so it doesn’t arrive until after the wedding, because I wouldn’t want it to become fuel for an ugly scene at the reception.</p>
<p>Yikes. In the mental movie that I’m constructing, your brother will meet the love of his life at the reception, a single aunt of the groom’s perhaps. She will be played by Julia Roberts. You of course will be played by Meryl Streep.</p>