<p>I’m not defending any violent behavior towards children, but in that story P3T, the mother could have been terrified of the boyfriend and in that split second taken it out on the child. Obviously she was in an abusive relationship herself. No excuses, but still, if it was the only incident, I would rather have it monitored, than have a child taken away. In any case, I don’t believe that kids are taken away that easily from parents, at least I hope not.</p>
<p>EK2, the news article you posted is just heartbreaking. I read every word, and am just apalled at how the girl could have been in that situation for that long, and the woman getting paid to abuse her. Very tragic. Hypodermic jabs into her eye. Just heart wrenching. Every year there are deaths from sloppy investigations or conniving care-givers.</p>
<p>What I did when young and faced with a mom who consistently reacted very badly to ANY report card, was stay away from home until dad would be home, then present the report card. I discovered that w/dad home mom’s reaction was restrained, and by the time I was alone with her again she was over the initial bad reaction stage. This can be thought of, in some cases, as an impulse control problem.</p>
<p>You could suggest this approach to the kid, invite her over on report card day if possible, and yes, I’d report it, unfortunately, so the mom knows people are watching her.</p>
<p>I’m saddened to think people think the kid is lying - these people know how to put on a good face in public. Kind of like the alcoholic who drinks in private only.</p>
<p>
THis is a very important point. What could be brushed off as a single incident or a kid exaggerating suddenly bears more weight & raises deeper concerns if a pattern is forming. Who knows if the school has had a series of reports about this family?</p>
<p>
This is very true. Teachers are trained to be teachers, not counselors or social workers. </p>
<p>The girl may be exaggerating, or may in fact be in danger in her own home. I don’t think raising the possibility of an 11 year old fabrication is jumping to any conclusions at all. It is being open-minded. But I’d still tell the teacher, being sure to state that the information I was passing on was, as Christcorp states, third hand reporting from one 11 year old to another. The teacher will know whether to pass it on. I agree that you don’t call the cops when your house is on fire, but in many situations the cops & firemen work in tandem. I think this is one of those situations where schools & scoial service agencies can both serve a role in exploring the girl’s claims.</p>
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</p>
<p>And yet you said yourself (in a nicely written, well-reasoned post, by the way) that the school did not have the resources or experience to fully investigate the incident. I can see why school employees also have a responsibility to report abuse. My mother was a public school teacher who dealt with this a few times and I heard the stories around the dinner table. In the case where I have reason to suspect abuse you still haven’t persuaded me that my first call should be to the school instead of to DSHS.</p>
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</p>
<p>Do you have any statistics or personal experience that social services agencies are more responsive to a school than to an individual? That’s really sad, and not at all what I would expect. Given the enthusiastic litigious nature of the day I’m surprised that they wouldn’t take any report of child abuse seriously. Of course, here in Washington to bar for separating a child from an abusive situation seems to be extraordinarily high if the depressing procession of news stories on the subject is an indicator.</p>
<p>I am a mandated reporter in CT. Thankfully, my experience has been one phone call to DCF and the children were interviewed at school the same day by DCF staff - not by school personnel. Have there been unfounded claims by children? You betcha! Have parents’ lives been destroyed by false or exagerated claims of abuse by their children? In my experience, not in the least. Do I hesitate to make a call? It’s not something I take lightly. Would I do it in the OP’s position? Yes, anonymously.</p>
<p>It needs to be reported to the school- and teachers are more aware of what to do then some posters give them credit for</p>
<p>Sometimes kids will act a certain way, with something being “off” but a teacher or GC can’t put their finger on it- if someone tells them this is what the child is saying- un AHA moment can happen- an extra awareness to be watchful and mindful</p>
<p>I would absoultely go to the teacher or principal or GC and say this</p>
<p>“My D was talking to GirlA, and GirlA told my D that her mom hits and kicks her if she gets a bad report card. Of course this is coming from one child to my child to me, but I would be remiss if I didn’t share what I heard…I know that you know this little girl and her family, and I hope it isn’t true, but if it is, someone needs to know”</p>
<p>The school will have a feeling for the situation, and will act accordingly</p>
<p>The school will have a feeling for the situation, and will act accordingly</p>
<p>Unfortunately again- I can see where WAshdad is coming from
In our area we have a school principal who was recently convicted of rape
<a href=“http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/109095.html[/url]”>http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/story/109095.html</a></p>
<p>A developmentally disabled girl who was “reportedly” raped at a high school in Seattle and school authorities suspended the boys involved ( after school was let out for the summer), but did not report it to the police
<a href=“http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003906586_assault27m.html[/url]”>http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003906586_assault27m.html</a>
and Seattle schools have a history, not just not following up on suspected abuse, but not reporting assaults & robberies.
<a href=“http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/333337_schoolcrime27.html[/url]”>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/333337_schoolcrime27.html</a></p>
<p>I myself was jailed- while the police investigated a claim that my mother had made by phone that I was going to harm my kids.
( my mother is wacko to say the least- I have posted earlier about how she didn’t call 911 when my father had a seizure because she wanted to teach him a lesson… he died. She had pushed my buttons so hard that I hung up on her- my mother then called the police to say that I was going to harm myself- when that didn’t get a reaction- she told them I was going to harm the kids- I was arrested- and police took the kids out of school and it took months and a great deal of money for psych evals ( for me- not my mother unfortunately) before I was cleared.
( incidentally- the police told my mother that I would get psychiactric help in jail- this is what we had been arguing about- she was on psychotropic meds and thought I should be too- I was in jail for three days- but I didn’t see a dr or was evaluated- other than being asked if I was going to harm myself)
The veracity of my mothers claims were never called into question-I had the impression that they felt this was a case that they could clear off their books easily so they took it on.
Ridiculous & it caused a great deal of difficulty because I was not allowed to be with my children by myself until I went to court which wasn’t scheduled for months.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing, ekity. What a terrible, terrible experience for you and your children to endure. It certainly puts this assumption to rest:
</p>
<p>My heart goes out to you.</p>
<p>Yes it was pretty horrible and what was worse was- they did not want any supporting references or evidence that I could have produced to shorten the process.</p>
<p>It wasn’t just that I was scrutinized, but it was compounded by the fact that the time they were spending on me, they could have been spending on kids who really were in risky situations.</p>
<p>Its possible that I was already in their system and that is why they spent so much time on me.
When my younger daughter was two, I had been in counseling for post partum depression and I was so shocked when I had swatted her on her diapered bottom that I told my therapist. I don’t think she was concerned but she did suggest I call up the child protective services at the time, which I did & I attended a parents anon meeting once or twice that was supposedly for parents who had abuse/anger issues. However- they were all so extreme, that they made me feel silly for being concerned about my reaction, so I didn’t go back.</p>
<p>boy em, sorry to hear about your situation. I have to change my suggestions from eariler about your mom. I would suggest distance, as much distance as you can get and no contact. I’m amazed you speak with her at all. I wouldn’t. </p>
<p>I think what happens in these situations when dealing with the caseworkers, police and counselors is that they have dealt with so many situations before they switch onto autopilot and go through the motions. Did you ever feel like they were actually listening to you or give you the benefit of the doubt?</p>
<p>When I was 11, my friend told me her dad hit her “with a switch” I didn’t even know what that was (I could only visualize a light switch, which seemed odd) so I asked my mom. My mom gently probed my friend for information, and when it sounded real, my mom shared details with the school, which then brought in the correct authorities. In my friends case, it was true. Her father was indeed hitting her (and her sister) with a switch.</p>
<p>I think the OP needs to follow up. Any child who shares information like this is calling out for help. We, as adults, need to step up and protect all children.</p>
<p>yes, there are cases of abuse of the system- people sayng things just to get others in trouble, principals not doing their job, teachers ignoring things that are obvious, HOWEVER, I do believe that the vast majority of people in those fields are good, caring, smart, capable people who will do the right thing and judge the situation in the correct way</p>
<p>If we don’t have faith in the system- with its flaws, and sometimes flawed people- then some child will get really hurt because of bad situations for some</p>
<p>I remember a time when everyone was going bonkers thinking there was ritual child abuse going on at some day care centers, the pendulum swung way far to the side- and yes there are people who report others out of maliciousness, and I feel for EK horrible history with her mother, but that doesn’t mean that the vast majority of cases are like EKs</p>
<p>I stay in moderate contact with my mom, just because we have very little outside family and I think she “means well”.
She really doesn’t have a continous thought from one day to the next sometimes.
For instance- when she was trying to think of something that would keep me busy ( since I have so many empty hours 
), she suggested that I become a court advocate for kids in the justice system.
I reminded her, that since I had been arrested for child endangerment, that perhaps the justice system wouldn’t be favorable.</p>
<p>( Although after reading the article about the foster woman in Tacoma & how she referenced herself with aliases in order to get the position- its possible that they would think that I would be a great advocate- I do think that everything eventually was erased- but I did think it was typical that my mother has such a short memory- of course she only made a phone call- I was the one put in jail- but I don’t really laugh about it- & I am depressed that my kids had to go through that ( they were 9 & 17) but it actually was kind of interesting in a surreal sort of way. It definitely was a whole nother section of society that I don’t see & I can see how people find it difficult to see out of the hole that they are in)</p>
<p>WashDad, your Q is a good one, what evidence or data do I have to suggest that it could be better to go through the school than call CSS directly as a concerned citizen. I have no data (maybe a social worker reading this thread does?) but here’s the basis upon which I said that:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Last year we found ourselves trying to help a sweet h.s. girl from an upscale suburb here whose Mom occasionally hit her quite hard in the face (bruises under the eyes covered by makeup at school, and her good friends picked up on it). Since the friends had already tipped off the school GC, a case had been opened by the school already. My H, who contacted the school social worker and was then given the name of the girl’s case manager at CSS, was told that if it happened “again” that his personal call would be taken more seriously “since a case is already open about her” and to call him. We never had to, but that advice stuck in my head.</p></li>
<li><p>Same incident: As a neighboring family who barely knew the other parents, we didn’t want any identification or liability from their direction. It got complicated because sometimes she came here to hang out for some peaceful atmosphere. So we got advice from a policeman (there was a particular night when it was of issue whether she’d come to our home or hers immediately after school when it was all “hot” at home…). THe suburban policeman – who also impressed us with his skills and common sense attitude – told us that if we continued to work through the school channels, we as a family could feel better for staying confidential. Specifically, I did not want a ranting mother or angry dad appearing at our doorstep demanding the girl go home; but nor did we want to be accused of harboring her or turning her against her parents. We just wanted her to have a safe haven if she needed it. We also were l00 percent dutiful that when the parents called our house to find her, we always said if she was or wasn’t there, handed over the phone, etc. This is important, if you’re ever trying to do this for a child. Don’t try to put yourself between the child and their parent. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I must tell you that, after a lot of unpleasant commotion in her household and a CSS visit to the Mom, the situation did settle down. It was bad for several weeks, but several months later she was faring much better. While she’s not being raised in a way I admire for its confusing messages to her all the time, at least she’s not being hit any more. It was very, very scary for her to have her situation opened up by the school, and it all started when her excellent student friends alerted her h.s. GC, who brought her in and there she finally told what all those sunglasses had been about.</p>
<p>Her situation was handled without any individual student or us as a family having to deal directly with CSS, so she could honestly tell her family, “I don’t know WHO called CSS, I don’t know WHO told the school…” since that was very important to them. Middle class families in suburbs care a lot about how they “look” to others. What troubled me most about this, in fact, was that their concern seemed to be there rather than with their daughter’s well-being. </p>
<p>So those two anecdotal stories were why I said to go through the school.</p>
<p>However, the school isn’t the only avenue to CSS and if someone feels strongly something’s being overlooked by a school, realize that it’s just one avenue to report suspected child abuse, but not the only way. We have phones, too.</p>
<p>emeraldkity4 - I admire your courage to post your experience in this thread. I think because so many of CC’s posters tend to be very caring, loving and involved parents, not only with their own children, but often with the children of others, our tendency is to categorize people here as unflawed - you know… they have the perfect children, perfect spouse, perfect house, perfect job, perfect reputation, etc. It takes a courageous person to admit that their children were taken from them at one point, no matter whether or not it was their fault. Even though it was eventually resolved, I’m sure the trauma of it was long-lasting. How can it not be? However, all of us who have endured some sort of trauma and crisis I’m sure would say that, on the other side, we learned something that we would not have known had we not gone through whatever we did. You obviously have an insight to systems that many of us don’t, and compassion for children who are mistakenly taken from their parents, as well as parents whose children are mistakenly taken from them. </p>
<p>I think sometimes we are so focused on providing the best opportunities for our kids, who for the most part here, are higher achieving and engaged in their communities that we forget that there’s a whole segment of the population that lives a very complicated and ‘fighting for survival’ kind of existence. </p>
<p>A couple of years ago, one of the brightest girls at our high school kind of went berserk. She was pulling all kinds of dumb acts to try to get her ex boyfriends attention which included a lot of lying. One night when my D was over at the ex boyfriends house, she called over there (always suspicious that D was the reason of their breakup) and said she was walking about town… that she couldn’t go home because her parents had beat her. She was 17 at the time I believe. She begged him to come pick her up and let her stay with him because she was so scared. They told her in no uncertain terms that they would not pick her up unless they then directly drove her to the police station and she filed a report. We were so proud of the kids and how they handled it - not totally dismissing the idea that something bad had happened at home, but also setting boundaries. This girl was even agreeing staying at our house (D and she were no longer friends), so D called me and asked me. I told her that if she stayed here, someone had to call her parents (either the girl, the police, or me) to let them know she was at least safe. As it ended up, she found another ‘friend’ to stay with, someone who she had not burned all her bridges with yet, so we were off the hook. But in that one night, it made me more aware that people file false charges all the time, and those to whom they are telling their abuse stories to, are put in a precarious situation. I still believe the OP here should share her interaction with her daughter with someone from the school, but do so knowing it may not be all it seems to be. Even so, if the child is lying, she still needs help.</p>
<p>Regarding the poor children in our previous economically depressed rural community, where I taught public school, I learned that in fact they do not separate children from mothers unless it’s a terrible, scathing (literally) situation.</p>
<p>They might send kids away for some nights in foster families if they find an immediate threat to their safety, but if you’re wondering about custody being permanently removed? No, it had to be awful for that to happen.</p>
<p>The philosophy was that the family is still the best unit for the child. One thing that I noticed was how, for example with crack cocaine moms who did lose custody for a year and 3 kids put into 3 separate foster homes…as soon as she made some progress on her drug rehab, the first thing she wanted to do when starting to feel better, just as soon as she was permitted, was round up her kids to live with her again. While this seems admirable, it also was premature because nothing stresses a young mother more than 3 young kids at home! So she regressed. To me, I thought the state must be in too much of a hurry to reuinite families, although I couldn’t see inside her head and heart. I just saw that the kid that I taught that year had the life of a yo-yo on a string. It even involved a move from one town to the next, hence mid-year school system switches, new teachers and classmates, TWICE…
So you wonder why he didn’t learn his math and phonetics that year? Yeesh!</p>
<p>I think sometimes good hearted middle class folks think if they make one phone call they’re going to send a parent to jail or end up causing the child to be given to strangers to raise…really, not so. It takes a LOT for those kinds of outcomes. I’m thinking re: Emkitty that the earlier self-reported stuff on file must have made her mom’s call appear unusually credible, and that’s scary in a whole different way…the bureaucracy grinds on and on. Still it’s important to remember, when deciding whether to speak up as a citizen, that in modern social work circles (unless it’s changed within the past 3 years…) Reunification Of Families is the goal most of the times UNLESS we’re talking those extreme and chronic cases (parents throwing scalding water on kids, keeping them in locked closets every evening, etc…). </p>
<p>For something like slapping, if that’s the worst of it, it surely won’t end up putting a kid out to foster care or a mom in jail. USUALLY not (emkitty’s story is a new one for me to hear and I’m going to remember it.)</p>
<p>I did meet a lot of grandparents who stepped in to take over raising kids while their young adult children (the parents) were in drug rehab. If I had the resources, I’d write a book about these incredible grandparents. Some were doing a yeoman’s task. They did get rightfully tired and angry at their own kids for making them do all this again, but they didn’t want their grandkids sent to foster care. Some teachers thought they might be “enabling” but I really was thankful for these grandparents in the lives of those kids. </p>
<p>Many thoughts tonight…an important topic, since we ALL care about the lives of kids on this site!</p>
<p>Update…I was waiting to talk to H about it and have him read your most helpful posts, but things got away from us, timewise. D just came home today and said the girl had a “sunburn” and when D asked her about it she said her mother slapped her across the face. I’m PO’d at myself for stalling and calling the GC at school tomorrow a.m. Who knows what else is going on over there. They have two other kids, and the girl told D that the father’s entreaties to his wife usually only work for a little while, and then it starts up again.</p>
<p>For a slap to last that long it had to be very hard, and will most likely cause bruising…how sad indeed</p>
<p>Don’t be to mad at yourself, you aren’t the only adult in this childs life…</p>
<p>And if the teachers aren’t paying enough attention, they better start</p>
<p>THanks, CGM. D said it really was red. I’m reading up on this on the internet and it says that in our state the GC will be mandated to report to CPS. My head is swimming.</p>