<p>When do you stop parenting and let them fail? Teens made poor choices, but when those choices can change the future in a big way- do you continue to step in? This is not a new behavior- been that way since kindgergarten. And yes, we probably should have had a school that was a better fit for him, but in our rural area, wasn’t a viable option. Now a Jr in HS, and tests very well, but grades stink. Trying a college visit to try & get him excited & willing to do the work the last year anyway. Any other ideas or suggestions?</p>
<p>Hate to say it, but let him grow up in his own time. I guarantee you most parents of teenagers (dare I say particularly boys?) have been through at least a little of this. I think some 17-ish male brains just cannot comprehend that their actions (or inactions) have consequences. Maybe get the diploma and take a year off to work, take a PG year if that’s financially possible, Americorps, . . . Is it possible to transfer schools and repeat a year of hs? I really <em>don’t</em> think showing him a college will spur him to maturity unless he approaches you about it. You might just at a calm moment engage him in a discussion about where he sees himself after high school.</p>
<p>I’m going to suggest a different approach. You say he’s been like this since kindergarten. I would try a therapist to see if they can help your son come up with plans he can follow. </p>
<p>Often times disorganized people have stress triggers to the way most people organize and so they avoid it. I wish I’d learned that about myself much earlier than I did. </p>
<p>I’d also do a weekly backback check. Your kid should be old enough to be doing this but he is not. I’d work to find out why before he launches out into the real world.</p>
<p>We won’t repeat a year at another school. He has passing grades, just that his grades are just not what he is capable of. He is interested in computers/technology, so the college is a community college with a strong program. He has already taken some college on-line classes from them thru HS. And he is interested in a personal visit- he went to a camp there a couple summers ago, so knows the campus, we are getting a more personal visit, sitting in on a couple classes, talking with student and/otr instructors in the area of his interest. My opinion is like yours- he is still a teenage boy, and my job to parent thru the bad choices.</p>
<p>Actually, we have been to a therepist, and came up with nothing. His main “reason” is, it doesn’t apply to what he plans to do, so why spend time on it. When something interests him, he can do even more than required, but if it doesn’t and requires much effort at all, forget it. We have done every organizational tool we can think of, and they only work if he chooses to use them. Not at all the ways of the rest of the family, so we find it VERY frustrating. I would let him use any method he chose to keep on track, but he chooses none. Bad thing is, most of the way thru school, he is smart enough to get by without much effort. Now, it is finally catching up with him. I had a friend suggest his behavior as something like an eating disorder. He is taking control of part of his life, even if it hurts him in the end. I even think it may be a “you can’t make me” attitude that he hasn’t grown out of. Can somebody give me hope that he will :)</p>
<p>There is a lot of value in having your S go to CC, where classes will have direct application to jobs and let him find out about what he may wish to pursue further. He can always transfer after CC & some instructors care more about homework while others really don’t care.</p>
<p>At this point, it’s tough to get your S to start caring if he hasn’t seen any bad consequences so far. There are many paths and not all are what we might “wish,” but it is what our kids choose. There are many like your S who do find their path, on their own terms and at their own time.</p>
<p>Having him see a counselor to see if that helps sounds like a good suggestion, if HE is willing.</p>
<p>lori_mom, I thought you were talking about my S but then you said you live in a rural area…we live in a big suburb w/great schools…</p>
<p>I agree w/pugmad, while we didn’t see a therapist, but we consulted with his GC who got him into a school program that teaches organization and accountability. </p>
<ol>
<li> Weekly notebook checks to make sure he’s taking notes </li>
<li> Weekly grade checks for each class (this is doable for your S)</li>
<li> Required tutoring for low grades (on progress reports, tests, etc.)<br></li>
</ol>
<p>Your school may not have this program but there are things you can implement with your S. You may find a contact on the site for more info [SDCOE:</a> AVID](<a href=“http://www.sdcoe.k12.ca.us/lret/avid]SDCOE:”>http://www.sdcoe.k12.ca.us/lret/avid)</p>
<p>While my S wasn’t “excited” about this, it took the load off of us weary parents. Now, my S tells me even though he never liked this program, he feels obligated to stay in - afterall, they’re going to pay for his college app fees to the state schools 
every little bit helps.</p>
<p>My S is bright like yours. But he needed to be taught how to be organized and he also had to learn new habits. So, when he gets home I ask him, “What’s your homework?” I’d make him take out his assignment book and also estimate the time it would take to do his work. I wouldn’t take “no homework” for an answer. That just meant nothing was due the next day. I made him figure out what he should study - even for 15 min. I did this everyday. Then, one day, he came home, looked at me and automatically reported his assignments, how he did on his test, etc…breakthrough!! Now, I do it maybe once a week…</p>
<p>I also concur w/pugmad’s advice to do backpack searches. I do it regularly. Also, email his teachers (if you haven’t already) and open the doors of communication. </p>
<p>Believe me, I was at my wit’s end when my S finished jr. high. Stay positive - you may be pleasantly surprised!</p>
<p>Make sure he looks for college courses where tests are counted and not weekly homework. If he does well in college, he may want to go to graduate school.</p>
<p>Frankly, having had a non-homework-doing child (I did find him a different highschool), getting them into a situation where tests matter and homework doesn’t is wonderful. In your case, that’s going to be college. </p>
<p>You might also want to talk to parents who have kids in the senior year courses and look for the teachers who assign less homework and take tests more seriously.</p>
<p>I know several young people like this. It’s so frustrating, because parents can see where this is all leading (as in nowhere), and they know that what they’re offering–a stable environment in which a child can learn and grow–is not something that they can or should continue forever. And yet some kids just treat their high school years as if they can hide out in their bedrooms playing air guitar for the rest of their lives, or until they’re good and ready. I have nothing useful to say that will help, except that I know it’s hard!</p>
<p>I would tie his privileges to performance. Whatever makes sense from turning in homework to getting the grades you know he can get.</p>
<p>An extensive evaluation from an educational neuropsychologist would be an extremely smart investment before college and life. Read the book The Myth of the Lazy Child by Mel Levine for reasons why. Then read another one of his books, Ready Or Not, Here Life Comes, which outlines getting someone who is ill prepared to launch on to the right path. </p>
<p>Gathering good information now about what might really be going on, and making adjustments and corrections while there is still time, can prevent someone from being a twenty-five year old who is stuck in adolescence later on.</p>
<p>Just to narrowly focus on the college admission process (not sure if that’s what you asked about) but sometimes less-than-stellar grades can be overcome by a combo of 1) very high test scores 2) really strong essays and 3) applying as early as humanly possible in the admissions process (including getting teacher recs in by earliest allowable date for college app submission – in some schools, this is July 1st).</p>
<p>Good luck to you and your son! You are not alone.</p>
<p>Try a summer program for kids that will be smarter than him. Might come back with all the new motivation.
OTOH I have heard that you can only influence them through 9th grade, after that it is apparently a lost case, they have to make a decision on their own.
Good Luck :)</p>
<p>I guess I’m on the right track, which does help to know. I have done most of the ideas suggested. He has spent several weeks at summer programs for TAG kids at the Belin-Blank Center at the University of Iowa. LOVED it! He has seen a child psychologist. Has lost privileges (makes a concious choice that it is worth the punishment, have increased the punishments, same results- makes the decision anyway) Have tried assignment book, tried PDA (hoping eletronic gadget would make it more appealing) have access to his grades on-line, have alot of communication with all his teachers, both on-line and in person. Have asked all of them for any suggestions. Have talked about tutor, but he doesn’t really need the “teaching” just a babysitter, which seems wrong, but I have mentioned to teachers, and they say not necessary. Basically, he is a great kid. Active in cross country, wrestling, band, choir, accapella guys group, youth group at church. And no, cutting back does not improve his grades. It is not a time issue.
So, is choosing classes/ college based on tests versus daily work scores babying him or doing what is best for him? Again, the question, how long do you “parent” and when do you let it go? I still think he is a teenage boy, not an adult, and my job is to prepare him to live in the real world. Am I helping or hurting at this point?</p>
<p>Since I am getting such good response here, does anyone have experoence with the written portion of the ACT? He has taken the test a couple times (not in the last year, he wanted to wait) and will take again in the fall. Hasn’t done the written. According to the school GC, no school in Iowa currently require it. So, does he take it? If he does well, does that help, if he does poorly does it hurt?</p>
<p>I’d give it a try, esp if he tests well. Many schools require the written portion; it could expand his options. As a side-note: I’ve learned not to necessarily take what the HS GC says as the final, definitive word (no offense to GCs).</p>
<p>Lori_mom: I realize I am going against the grain here–lots of people coming down on the side of “make him do homework”–but frankly, no job I know of requires homework. Oh, lots require bringing work home, but when that’s the case, it is real work with direct rewards. For a bright kid, the vast majority of homework as assigned is meaningless. It doesn’t increase understanding, and if he’s getting good test scores, it really doesn’t have much point–it’s just grunt work. I’d look for the teachers who don’t assign meaningless work.</p>
<p>(I used to teach high school chemistry. I long ago noticed that students only do homework that they could see had a point. My son, who graduated from MIT in '07, never did homework for math (for example), until his calculus teacher started assigning him special and much HARDER problems. Those he did, because he could see a point to them.)</p>
<p>identical son…</p>
<p>One big help to my son: he took a UC summer school class in an area of great interest to him. It had no busy work, it was small/discussion based, and he was engaged. He did very well in the class and the prof wrote one of his college recs. I think it helped a lot because the college he was admitted to is very strong in the area of his interest and an open curriculum style school. I guess they figured this is his performance level when he cares, and is engaged, and it’s his cup of tea…</p>
<p>My son could have been your son’s twin back in HS. He is now working as an entrepeneur, having finished college last year. There wasn’t much that motivated him in HS, except finally realizing that he better graduate because everyone else was. So, he squeaked through. We went through it all, tutors, learning specialists, evaluation for learning disability, therapy. The problem was not that he didn’t know how to organize himself or didn’t understand the material, he just couldn’t be bothered. His psychologist told us that boys just take a long time to mature and that many don’t grow into a work ethic until they are much older. They may be willing to work hard at something they love, but are just not mature enough to apply the same effort to something they’re less keen on. They aren’t long sighted enough at that age.</p>
<p>I suggest that you focus on finding the positives in your son. It sounds like he does have interests, so help him find opportunities in those areas. It doesn’t have to be college prep. It’s no help to him to constantly be reminded of his failings, especially since it hasn’t worked so far.</p>
<p>That’s what helped my son. He is very successful now that he is out of school because he gets to just focus on his passions and he is very self directed. As a matter of fact, I’ve noticed that he is actually doing better than many friends who were good students – the very quality that hindered him in school, of not wanting to do the work on things he considered exterraneous to his own interests, actually helps him to succeed now, because he knows himself so well. He works hard because he is working for himself. </p>
<p>So don’t lose hope and don’t give up on what you’re doing. It may not really make much difference in his HS experience, but you’re sending an important message, that you CARE. Ultimately, that’s the most important thing. You hear about successful people who were bad in school, and often they say that their parents believed in them. That’s what mattered most to them.</p>
<p>So, in households with the similar child, did both parents agree on how to handle it? If not, how do you work it out? So far, not a big problem. but he is ready to throw in the towel, where as I am not yet.</p>