The Guardian began tracking killings by US police in 2015. They are now on their second year and the DOJ is following suit.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/series/counted-us-police-killings
I heard from a friend of mine (saw it on CBS) that 2 mortars were just detonated in a line of police in New Orleans. 21 injured.
Okay actually not mortars, that must have been about the fireworks in St. Paul. 5 injured there, and 21 injured in new Orleans from smaller riots. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/10/485434615/more-than-200-people-arrested-at-protests-in-louisiana-and-minnesota
Each case is different and each case deserves unbiased scrutiny.
Each of us has his or her own expectations for cop and (alleged) perp behavior.
Two sane and fair-minded people can come to two different interpretations of the same event, given the same info and given the same amount if time to decide.?One might say that the cop acted according to what he or she knew about the perp heading into the situation, acted based on legal culpability, and acted according to things the “perp” did leading up to and during the confrontation. Others will say that, despite what the perp had done in the past, was doing that day, or did during the confrontation, that the cop is culpable for the result. We see that all the time: people looking at the same event and assigning blame differently.
But the law isn’t supposed to care about our predispositions. Verdicts are supposed to be based on the law and on the facts/evidence.
Nobody has a right to act illegally. I start from that standpoint. All excuses aside, if you are doing wrong, then you can’t really complain if you are arrested. The law is there to tell us how to act, and if you (I, we) can’t avoid commiting crime, then you need to not freak out when the cops come calling.
I don’t see anything the guy who was shot in Minnesota did wrong. He was just sitting there. He had notified the cop that he had a gun on him, but was going to give the cop his ID/wallet, as far as we know.
Sterling was a felon with numerous crimes in his past. The call that brought the cops to the scene let the cops know that Sterling was armed and had brandished that weapon. If dispatch told the cops he was also an ex-con, I can see why they would have been even more fearful of Sterling. It is illegal for a felon to possess a firearm, which made him culpable based solely on that. So I can understand the intensity they displayed. To me it comes down to whether Sterling was reaching for his gun, which is difficult to tell. This one is pretty grey for me right now, but I see how the cops might have been amped up heading in. It does not appear Sterling followed the cops’ orders, though even that is hard to tell.
Mike Brown – still not 100% clear, but he had committed a felony about an hour prior to being shot. His actions during the fateful moment make me think he did chafe the cop, attached the cop and/or tried to take the weapon, and later charged the cop again after beginning to walk away. He clearly was not obeying the cop’s orders.
Eric Garner - That was pretty bad. Cuff him and take him to jail, or talk to him about it and let him go. He wasn’t armed – two cops should be able, with all their self-defense training, to put an unarmed guy in cuffs without seriously injuring or killing him. Anyone with jujitsu training knows how a choke affects people. The cop put the choke on him and seemed to forget about it – when you knock someone out with a choke, you have to let go then. The cop didn’t.
These cases all have different circumstances and things that happened.
To cops generally I would say, try to remain calm, use your non-lethal training as well as possible to put the person in cuffs. We know you are scared sometimes; just try hard to remain calm and use non-lethal force as often as possible.
To the perps (those who clearly played a part in their own demise, and others following in those footsteps): First, obey the law – stop committing crime. Second, if a cop gives you an order, follow it. Being loud and resisting during a stop is just asking for trouble.
Learning to obey laws and respect authority starts in the home. That in itself is whole other topic, but I see it at work in some of these cases in which the perp actually clearly did not do either of those things, and it led to a suboptimal result.
@albert69 Mortars did seem a bit over the top even for a rumor told by “a friend who saw it on tv”.
But you still don’t have this right.
There are no injuries to anyone reported in New Orleans in that article or any I can find, in fact.
But whatever.
^ Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for the garbled information.
IMO, the BLM movement is stupid if they use Michael Brown as an example. He’s exactly what’s gone wrong in the black community and why people/cops look askance at black people. He was a punk who knocked over a convenience store with no regard for the owner who was trying to earn an honest living.
I think it is a great loss to society for the arbitrary death of Castile - a good guy who appears to have done nothing wrong. The loss to society of Michael Brown? Eh. No great loss except to his family and friends. No one made him be a felon. If, when he knocked down the c-store, the owner had shot him - even though I’m anti-gun, I wouldn’t have shed too many tears. Here’s a concept. Obey the law and don’t take things that aren’t yours. Not that hard.
Btw, I have 2 relatives who were drug dealers (hard drugs, not little things like pot) and spent significant time in prison. They were no great loss to society either.
He was a kid who behaved badly. I don’t believe his actions were at the level of felon, but even if they were, you see it as eh, that he was killed? Really? You have just lost all credibility with me. Not that I expect it to keep you up nights.
I don’t see it as sad-face-making as Castile, no.
Tee-peeing a house or smoking a little pot or climbing a fence someplace is a kid behaving badly.
Just as I am saddened by the Castile video, I was disgusted by the Brown c-store video.
“He was a kid who behaved badly” michael brown? strong arm robbery followed by punching a cop and trying to take the cop’s gun in a fight trying to kill the officer? is behaving badly? oh my that gives behaving badly a new meaning.
p.s. even the attorney general (eric holder)who very badly wanted to persecute the officer had to admit what happened and even that hands up don’t shoot was a farce!
behaving badly? wow
Was just going to say, but someone beat me to it, the newspaper reporting was based in New Orleans, but the incidents were in Baton Rouge. As I type, protesters are gathering again in downtown Atlanta. Hope it stays peaceful.
The owner of that store publicly stated the man on the video wasn’t Michael Brown. Unfortunately, that was ignored as the video better fits the prevailing narrative about Black people and crime.
As someone who grew up in a city during the tail end of the high crime era of NYC…criminals come in all shapes and sizes…but the centuries old narrative and mass media coverage tends to emphasize Black criminals over all others…especially White criminals. Quite ironic considering some of the most dangerous crime-ridden neighborhoods I and my K-12 friends experienced weren’t majority Black.
In fact, some were majority White as the ones who grew up in neighborhoods like Howard Beach, Ozone Park, and Bensonhurst before the late '90s experienced firsthand.
That’s very nice in theory…but that’s not what happens in practice despite attempts at introducing safeguards. There’s a lot of room for biases…whether outright or implicit in the various actors involved in the criminal justice process from the LEOs who determine who to stop/question/arrest, the DA’s decision to bring forth the case and what punishments to pursue, and the decisions of juries/judge(s).
The last factor is one reason why criminal defense attorneys…especially experienced savvy ones do their best to switch venues of trials depending on their perceptions of whether a given judge/jury would be “fair”(really favorable to their client) or not.
If this wasn’t the case, why did the attorneys for the LAPD cops shown on video violently assaulting Rodney King pushed for and got their trial moved to Simi Valley…an upper/upper-middle class White majority suburban community 30 miles from LA and one well-known as a bastion of conservative politics and pro-cop sentiments.
And then those who are part of or predisposed favorably to the establishment wonder why so many living within urban LA…especially racial minorities and discerning journalists/scholars regard the acquittal of those LAPD officers as a rigged process for those very reasons.
And more surprised by the riots which resulted…especially considering tensions over police brutality, disparate racism, and other factors preceding the Rodney King brutalization by LAPD and trial were already at an explosive point.
One of the things a few attorneys I’ve known…including a few judges is that the law isn’t nearly as objective and cut and dried in actual practice as it may seem from the glance of written laws. Especially considering decisions by juries and judges are heavily influenced by personal biases/experiences even if unintended, legal philosophy subscribed to by the presiding judge(s), and more. Not to mention LEO’s own biases/experiences as to determine who to stop, question, arrest, or let go without any issues or with a mere warning.
One attorney friend went so far as to advise me when I was considering pursuing a legal career that those who tend to excel as lawyers are those with flexible and nimble minds to contemplate multiple possible interpretations of the applicable laws and legal outcomes and to account for them in their preparations on behalf of their client(s) and the ones who tend to do poorly as law students or attorneys are ones with an inflexible “cut and dried” view of the law as if it was immutably set in stone.
“the owner of that store publicly stated the man on the video wasn’t Michael Brown. Unfortunately, that was ignored as the video better fits the prevailing narrative about Black people and crime.”…so using the far fetched conspiracy it was not michael brown and it fits the “narrative of black people and crime” …are you saying not only is that not michael brown assaulting the store owner but a fake black person…just used to fit a narrative? or is it a fake video …and the store owner gave a fake video with a fake black person who is also not michael brown to the police?? the video was seized from the store with a warrant. (confusing narrative to say the least)
it was 100% michael brown, that is not even a question. that is over the top. to even say that.
the owner said he did not call 911 a customer must have and he dd not want to be wrapped up in the situation. yeah he was scared… but it is of zero question minus the scared shop keeper praying not to be targeted who was in the video. that is dishonest to use a terrified shopkeeper’s statement to somehow claim michael brown was not the person who robbed the store and tried to kill an officer. you know who else is in the surveillance video his " friend" who made up the hands up don’t shot story.
It’s interesting how people who decry others who don’t want to belive the official narrative on some issues quickly jump on the bandwagon to do the same thing for others. Anti-vaxxers and gun rights advocates, for instance, are called menaces to society and conspiracy theorists for not believing everything the government or other official sources tell them. But law enforcement’s official narrative is suspect. Got it. Now, my point is that maybe we should all try harder (myself included, I know I’m no saint) to at least hear each other out. People usually have their reasons for believing as they do, some bad yes, but also ome good.
It did Phillipe Castile no good considering what happened to him.
It did Lavar Jones no good considering what happened to him.
And there’s likely many more that are unknown due to lack of video evidence and the longstanding tendencies of many in the establishment and their sympathizers to automatically take the LEO’s word as golden without feeling the need to check and verify.
It also ignores the disparate treatment LEOs have been found to have meted out to Black and other racial minorities vs White suspects.
For instance, the photo of an incident last summer when a belligerent White Confederate Sympathizer going for his holstered gun in a while the cop in front of him is visibly trying to calm him down rather than pulling out his service weapon and shooting him outright which a reasonable person would have found far more justifiable than what happened to Castile, Jones, and othes who happened to be Black.
And yet, that belligerent Confederate Sympathizer who happened to be White wasn’t shot and is still alive.
US law enforcement needs to rethink their whole procedure for dealing w simple traffic violations.
Why is it even necessary to pull over motorists & engage w the driver on straightforward issues like speeding, expired registration sticker on plate, blown out tail light?
Just take a photo and mail the ticket to the car owner’s address.
Because sometimes even computer systems which are integral to such devices could make mistakes due to faulty sensors, calibration thereof, mechanical failure, etc.
“For instance, the photo of an incident last summer when a belligerent White Confederate Sympathizer going for his holstered gun in a while the cop in front of him is visibly trying to calm him down rather than pulling out his service weapon and shooting him outright which a reasonable person would have found far more justifiable than what happened to Castile, Jones, and others who happened to be Black.”… every cop and situation is different you surely you understand that but instead you draw a personal bias to explain what does or does not happen.
how about the 6 year old white child with autism who was shot and killed last year by not one but two black cops. do you the know the story or even care. got zero coverage minus a couple articles and the white victim’s race as well as the black cops who killed him are never mentioned in the few articles on the story. http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/Lawyer-Father-had-hands-up-as-police-killed-son-343816502.html
that kid did not matter because the narrative was wrong for the media and people who agree with the narrative.
or
no value to the agenda, no charges for the black cop (his white victim was naked and unarmed. And still got shot) but hey not a story. no comments from the president. these examples go on and on and get zero attention.
Didn’t you hear, zobroward? It’s BLACK Lives Matter. Not making a big deal does fit the agenda. The black cops’ lived, and that’s what is important.
I would be interested to know if they got convicted of anything, though. I don’t know if enough information was released to find that out?