<p>Well said, wisteria. Things could have been worse: they could have ended up in Wisconsin.</p>
<p>Having done both, the 2 most similar cities for academics are Boston and Seattle, with SF and DC close behind.</p>
<p>2 words: Jet Blue.</p>
<p>And UriA, in the immortal words of Mel Brooks - you makea me laugh -chwa,chwa, chwa (10 points if you can name that reference). 90% of the computers around the table at the NIH study sections I participate in are Macs. No arty/hippies there.</p>
<p>Sorry to hijack this thread, but a gal’s gotta do what a gal’s gotta do.</p>
<p>I am a hippie. Always was (before there were hippies), always will be.</p>
<p>Proud of it. Don’t use drugs. Am 56, consistently taken for 40, pass my hippie ideas on to my college students. I may be the only bonna fide hippie they will ever meet.</p>
<p>Live in a wealthy LI North Shore community. Do use a Macbook. You probably couldn’t tell me by my appearance, but my guiding principle has always been “Make love, not war.”</p>
<p>Pictures…</p>
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<p>hmmm are you some sort of market analyst for the tech industry? That’s just who apple products are built to appeal to. Remember the term “for the rest of us?” Apple products were heavily designed to appeal to artists, graphic designers, etc. Until recently Apple has drawn it’s market share from an unusually artistic, creative crowd, which explains the platform’s visibility within certain youthful, avant-garde subcultures. This also explains why Apple has far less sales anywhere overseas as they do in the US. It has always been more of a cultural statement of rebellion. Until very recently upon the large scale development of OS-X, specifically Tiger and now Leopard, the Apple products did not appeal much to the general public, just the “hipsters”</p>
<p>Macs are popular in Liberal circles, and have long been characterized as a “liberal’s computer” popular among members of the entertainment industry, graphic arts communities. professional writers, and other creative, artistic types, who more often than not tend to be liberal in their political views, and well as the stereotypical granola-crunching, Birkenstock-wearing, Volvo-driving, Ikea-furnished, urban lefty crowd. After all, Apple CEO Steve Jobs is a self-styled liberal Democrat and former Clinton VP and Democratic presidential candidate Al Gore is a member of Apple’s board of directors.</p>
<p>And like I said, until recently those are the crowds Apple marketing have been trying to appeal to.</p>
<p>mythmom:</p>
<p>To ride the hijack - a hippie who doesn’t do drugs? I thought doing drugs was always part of the definition of a ‘hippie’ (Leary and his “Turn on, tune in, drop out” mentality). If you never did drugs were you really ever a hippie? </p>
<p>Note - I’m no expert - I never was a hippie and I never did drugs.</p>
<p>I would worry more about the potential of interferring in-laws than the distance involved. That said, I think it is more important for the woman to be near her family when/if children come along. </p>
<p>I’ve moved (a number of times) away from my close-knit, extended, and yes, ethnic family to follow H’s career. Though I am glad to have gotten to know different parts of the country and some of my family members have visited us in places that they never would have seen, I am tired of the rootlessness and sad that our kids will never be “from” anywhere and will never have close relationships with their extended family. (OTOH, I’m glad to have missed out on some of the bickering that goes on in the family). Another issue is always using your vacation to visit your family–H doesn’t always want to do that.</p>
<p>Another factor is if your son is not a member of the same ethnic group as his girlfriend/wife–how will her family accept that? (My H is “different” and doesn’t fit in with my family that well, although they get along. H’s family is pretty disconnected and dysfunctional–so he doesn’t really understand my feelings of wanting to be close to extended family).</p>
<p>Back to the original topic–I always find it surprising that parents would even think of putting pressure on children as to where to live. I am a boomer–and I had older, very authoritarian, unapologetically opinionated parents who pretty much tried to control every aspect of my life as a teenager–EXCEPT when I applied to college, my dad was very proud that they had saved enough college money for my sister and me that they could afford to send us anywhere we wanted to go. It was always assumed that that we would go away to college-which we both did–and end up living somewhere other than our hometown–which we both did. Of course, only as a parent of one teen and one post teen do I realize how emotionally wrenching that is–but even though our parents tied us down pretty well when we were young, they definitely gave us wings when it was time! </p>
<p>I know this isn’t easy, especially since our own recent college grad has not chosen to return to our hometown–but we hope that eventually he will! And if he doesn’t–we’ll still see him as much as we possibly can. We are learning that every stage of having children has its own unique challenges; this is just the latest one.</p>
<p>I don’t think parents should put pressure on their kids, but neither is it healthy to keep your true feelings bottled up! I agree with Vicariousparent’s post (#34).</p>
<p>“The greatest legacy we can give our children is roots and wings.”</p>
<p>I led that and will remember.</p>
<p>I know a couple who has been living this between countries. That is really tough. The H is from another country and his parents live in that country. The W is from the US and her mother lives here. They have children. They have lived in both countries. They lived here for about the first 12 years of marriage. Then they moved to the other country for about 6years. Now they are living back in the US. They call family regularly (big phone bills). They have faxed copies of grandkid’s artwork to grandparents. They have invited “the other set of grandparents” for extended stays. It has been tough, but also a rich happy life, and it has worked out. The reason for living in both places was primarily one of them was missing their culture, family, and home environment (in other words, homesick).</p>
<p>BTW, one of my relatives is a female and she lives where her inlaws live. She did not stick around near her parents. She is now hesitant to let her own children go to college far away because it was at college that she met her DH, who was from that area. Her DH was not going to move away from his family and she made the move away willingly.</p>
<p>To the OP,
It sounds like this is your only child, and you have all of your “hopes” invested in him. It is sad, I guess, when children move far away, and are likely to start their families in the new location, and there is much that will be missed, as far as far as grandchildren go.</p>
<p>Thank goodness, that in this age of amazing technology, every moment can be shared through digital photography, video conferencing, etc. Special moments can be recorded and shared and viewed over and over.</p>
<p>My H and I moved many thousands of miles away from both sets of parents. None of them were happy about it, but never said/did anything to make us feel guilty about our choices. Both sets of parents have visited us many times, and stayed for months on end. We made sure that our home had a special bedroom + bathroom for their exclusive use, and welcomed their visits.</p>
<p>Of course they missed out on many little things, but then more than made up for it when they came and stayed, and stayed, and stayed.</p>
<p>That is life. Roots and wings.</p>
<p>I recommend that you go straight to the Apple store and pick up a Macbook Pro. You can videochat with your son every day- nothing to hook up or install! Macs are so cool!</p>
<p>I’ve written this before on CC, but will say it again here–
At 46 I live in the same town I grew up in. The only time I ever lived elsewhere was during college. I love our home, our town, our schools, and our family is very happy here. That said, the fact that I never lived elsewhere is my biggest regret. In fact, H. and I had many fights about this during the early years of our marriage. He is from the same area, but never wanted to leave. Now we are settled but… I definitely wish I had experienced life elsewhere, at least for a while, when I was younger.</p>
<p>Also, FWIW I’ve never been to the west coast, but Oregon and Washington are two of my travel dream destinations. Seattle sounds like a very appealing city - I think he could do a ton worse. That said, though, New England is wonderful, and I’m sure it is heartbreaking to think of him so far away. Is there also the feeling that maybe he is choosing another family over his own? That would be tough too. It’s certainly easier to give advice than experience it firsthand. I would let him know your feelings, but keep it gracious and accepting. Who knows, maybe in a few years time New England will beckon again-</p>
<p>Try to put yourself in the shoes of the girlfriend’s parents. THEY have probably missed their daughter too for all of the years she has been at school, and would like to have her in their area for a while. I have to agree with other posters…most areas of New England are quite expensive especially for young couples starting out. The Pacific Northwest is lovely, and the prices there are much more reasonable than in the metro areas of the Northeast. The world IS a smaller place. With email, and cell phones, contact isn’t very hard to maintain. And as pointed out, flying to the west coast isn’t a huge ordeal or expense (in fact it’s actually less expensive sometimes than those shorter hops). I would consider this a “vacation opportunity” and a chance for you all to enjoy a part of the country that you haven’t seen much of. Gee…I’d be saving my money and trying for an Alaskan cruise from there…or a trip to the provinces of Canada just north. </p>
<p>It IS hard to see your family moving in different directions. But this happens a lot these days.</p>
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<p>you don’t need a macbook pro. you can purchase a relatively inexpensive web cam that will work just as well. you can use AOL instant messenger to video chat which is free of charge.</p>
<p>Hey, some of us did end up in Wisconsin, and it ain’t so bad!</p>
<p>Being from California and Arizona, I though most people lived far from extended family, found friends and made a life whereever they went. In my early life we never had any family closer than 1000 miles away. Living now in this more traditional part of the country, I’ve learned about family ties, and the comfort, as well as consternation that comes from having relatives close by. All the talk about which relative to visit on Thanksgiving…I never knew people who had such problems in Arizona. </p>
<p>I see people who never leave the area they grew up in, regret it as they have kids and realize the chance to explore is gone. Others move far away, explore, and in doing so find value in their original home area and return far more contented. Midwest to Arizona, and sometimes home again seems to be a common path. </p>
<p>Working with families, I see education being the key. If your kids have advanced degrees, families tend to spread around the country and sometime the world. Heart strings are torn, but the visits are a great opportunity. Staying in the same house for a week or so is a very different sort of sharing than getting together on occasion with family for dinner and holidays. I’ve no clue which is preferable. </p>
<p>Your son is fortunate to be falling in with a Korean family. I have Korean family by marriage, and have loved getting to know that culture. Will be very instructive for him to spend time with them, and learn about his GFs possibly differently valued upbringing.</p>
<p>You only have one life and you are completely entitled to your feelings. I didn’t read anything in the OP about mom threatening mass murder if the son didn’t stay nearby. It’s absolutely ok to feel sad, even really sad. There are threads about how hard it is when the college grads make their own lives and move away and this is another manifestation of that. Those feelings are all valid, just like the commonality of the sadness when kids go to college. The “competition” between inlaws is also pretty normal, heck, even Erma Bombeck wrote about that. In reading the OP, I was picturing the girl’s family being involved on a daily basis in a way that the boy’s family won’t be, involved with the grandchildren on a daily basis and being part of their life (should there be grandchildren). That’s all a good reason to feel sad and concerned. Major changes in any relationship are cause for anxiety and it won’t be ok until the boy’s family sees that they still matter, are still loved and valued and still have a place in their son’s life. I say sit that boy down, tell him how much you love and support him, how much you will miss him, and that you’re afraid of losing him. Then he will know and be able to reassure you and help make the details of the move (should it happen) comfortable to you. If you don’t tell him, then he can’t know. Trust that he loves you and your feelings matter. If he was concerned about something in your relationship, you’d want to know about it from him, give him that respect and communication.</p>
<p>I prefer parts of the west coast to the east coast, and vice versa. The provincial part of me prefers Wisconsin, and the upper Midwest, just as you prefer your known area. Why would you even consider leaving your home to follow your son? That close knit family has learned to let go- or she never would be in your city. </p>
<p>I can easily understand wanting to be in the Seattle area- for the climate, culture, natural beauty… Want to go back for another visit (achy joints in winter and earthquakes are the only turnoffs that come to mind at the moment). It is easier to fly across the country from major airport to major airport than needing those bunny hop flights, you will have excuses to see another part of the country. We have been to both regions, I prefer the Pacific Northwest to New England. </p>
<p>Nothing wrong with you liking your area or your son exploring his own. You will have to some day realize your son needs to transfer his primary loyalties to a wife, regardless of who she is, where she comes from, or where they live. You will be more appreciated if you recognize he is an independent person and don’t try to manage his life. Trying to hold on to him will give him more reasons to escape- your son probably sees the same qualities in your family as you see in hers. You are not losing a son, you are potentially gaining an enriched family circle. Your little boy has grown up and needs to leave the nest. The day may come when both you and the other family can commiserate about their like-minded independent children and discover how much you have in common to have raised two individuals who suit each other so well. I suspect there is more than just an across country move that is bothering you- don’t worry about cultural differences (my father liked my Indian boyfriend and proposed marriage, he just didn’t like my not keeping his religion- it had been years since I practiced it, he happily came to the wedding…we do/don’t get along as well as we did those eons ago).</p>
<p>I can imagine her family’s reactions- happy she’s returning, but, what, who is this young man??? You will survive your son’s departure and I’ll bet there will come a day you are glad he had the chance to experience another part of the country, regardless if the relationship becomes a marriage or a lesson in what he really wants in his life. </p>
<p>Everyone on either coast- there is life in the middle, and a good one, much better in some ways than yours… Wisconsin- home of that wonderful, liberal Madison, the birthplace of the Republican Party, the first kindergarten, natural glacier formed terrain, take your pick… All places have something special- “beauty is in the eyes of the beholder”.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, you understand completely the inevitable feelings of sadness. My husband and I have just become empty nesters as youngest son recently left to attend college in Canada, and we are not quite adjusted to that yet, so two sons soon to be missed, it’s a shock to our hearts. We are doing our best to move on to the next stage in our lives and develop new interests; we just will darn miss having these children around. So we will get with the program – we, after all, are the role models – and likely we’ll consider ourselves fortunate to have new destinations to travel to and new experiences in store. But we’ll never get past wanting our children nearby; life is short and we are only granted so many moments with our loved ones. </p>
<p>As far as my potential daughter-in-law, her doctorate is in science, not academia, and the logical (prestigious) employer is right at her own doorstep, so hence the surprise at her wish to relocate back to parents so quickly and possibly sacrifice career-wise. She obviously has missed them a lot the last six years and it’s important to her to be the dutiful daughter – maybe it’s enough she’s not with a Korean young man! I guess I’m just a little worried that so far I’ve only heard what she wants, but perhaps I’m jumping the gun and in reality the situation will become more reciprocal.</p>
<p>BOYSOFWINTER: If your son and his girlfriend were simply moving for better professional opportunities to a distant city, I would be more inclined to tell you “let them go and be happy for them”. But from what I can tell from your posts and from my observation of Asian-Caucasian couples in general, I sense that there is undue pressure being applied on the young couple by the girl’s mother. I know I am making a sweeping generalization but I do think that Asian cultures tend to have a “strong roots and clipped wings” philosophy regarding the role of parents in the children’s life. I bet there is nobody advising the girl’s mother to stop interfering with her child’s life, interference that will likely only grow when the couple moves closer.</p>
<p>Now I am not suggesting that you start a ‘cold war’ of counter-interference but I do think you could let the young couple and especially your son be aware that they should <em>TRULY</em> live their own lives, and resist undue parental interference from BOTH sides.</p>