To me one of the interesting “new” things is they seem to be suggesting that something like AP Calc BC scores might be a viable substitute (edit: oh, or IB HLs). Which makes perfect sense, I just wasn’t sure that would be true based on prior statements.
1 Like
This isn’t surprising. I’ve heard that professors are rioting behind the scenes because the quality of admitted classes has sharply dropped since the implementation of test-optional admissions.
3 Likes
That is not something either Yale or Dartmouth has suggested, and indeed they have specifically contradicted that narrative by explaining their test optional admits have been doing well.
The problem is to get there, they are de facto holding test optional applicants to a higher standard on things like advanced classes, teacher recommendations, and other non-test academic markers, and that is working against relatively disadvantaged applicants.
8 Likes
How does one get tapped in to ‘behind the scenes’ professor riots?
5 Likes
I mean, of course they aren’t going to openly say this and stigmatize the test-optional admits. It’s something that I’ve heard from professors themselves behind closed doors.
4 Likes
Absent actual data or at least people going on the record, I would hesitate to credit such anecdotes as indicative of the actual reasons for the policy in contradiction to their extremely detailed and well-evidenced reasoning.
But obviously that is up to every individual here to decide.
2 Likes
No free speech in the college climate that exists today and no one is going to go on record and say this.
2 Likes
Seeing as there is no way a professor would know who was admitted TO, I find this a stretch. I do believe many students have entered college recently less prepared, though, due to covid-related learning loss. And I wouldn’t be surprised to find that those learning losses were most acute at under performing schools in poorer communities.
12 Likes
I don’t want to get into DEI debates, and I don’t want to attribute motivations to colleges for admitting certain test optional candidates, as preppywannabe does. However, via personal connections I do know that Yale has studied the performance of its test optional students and found it to be lacking relative to applicants that submitted tests. Importantly, we are talking about the performance of the entire test optional pool though, not just test optional underprivileged applicants.
I know this is just hearsay but I thought I’d share it.
6 Likes
And now if you can confirm the “professors are revolting” story, we’ll have a REAL nice thread to follow!
3 Likes
Noting the Yale article did say this, which doesn’t seem to suggest anything that would be worthy of professors ‘rioting’:
Mr. Quinlan said that Yale had recently admitted 1,000 students who did not submit test scores and that they had done relatively well in their Yale courses.
1 Like
If this were the case, then colleges that have been test-optional for decades (like Bates and Bowdoin) would have ended those policies long ago. Rather, I think that test-optional policies have probably discouraged students with scores below the 25th percentile from applying, and many of those students (from underserved or underrepresented communities) are the ones whose applications Yale and Dartmouth would like to be able to consider.
Also – I’m a professor, and I haven’t heard a word about behind-the-scenes rioting.
4 Likes
I think this too, schools would never publicly state that they are disappointed with kids who are current students. It would undermine relationships between school and students and potentially impact employment/grad school placements if they did so. They want to go back to testing but they want to retain diversity improvements made under the test optional model. So they are announcing that they will review test scores holistically for disadvantaged students, a policy that has worked well for MIT.
2 Likes
That’s not it at all. They want to identify really strong kids in underserved HS or figure out who has straight As but only 3s in their APs. Despite otherwise impressive applications. This has strictly to do with giving context to transcripts IMO.
I wonder if that means the rest of the Ivies will go even higher.
I can’t claim to have any first-hand information about revolting professors. 
I suspect that any decline in performance would not rise to a level that would trigger a professor revolt. I do know that professors at many schools are seeing the impact of COVID learning loss and mental health challenges, which has nothing to do with test optional policies.
3 Likes
True, however fewer students are placing out of intro level STEM classes and colleges have had to increase the number of sections for those classes. The general idea is not completely unfounded.
2 Likes
I’d like to see a movie or TV special about professors rioting at Yale.
Do they throw eggs at the windows of the Beineke library, or just chant obscene lyrics set to Cole Porter tunes? Or maybe dunk old statues of John Calhoun in Long Island Sound?
What a terrific fundraiser for the next campaign- sell tickets to watch the Yale faculty riot over test-optional policies!!!
2 Likes
Delete
Yes and no. The test would serve to identify those who have fundamental gaps in their knowledge.
1 Like