I am very surprised parents tolerate that-you really have no idea what if anything the kids learned in the course, just taking the teacher’ word for it. Parents here prefer evidence of demonstrated results.
I also think this is odd. Regardless, for us AP classes don’t have end of year finals. Our teachers stretch the curriculum as much as they can and usually write their own tests, though they grade it per AP guidelines. End of term exams (trimesters) are the only time they see actual AP tests and its usually a relief bc those tend to be easier than the ones written by the teachers. A- is an excellent grade for our AP classes. The school has a 95% pass rate.
At our school the HS AP class curriculum seems to include a lot more than the college board AP curriculum, so yes, the exams are different. Some kids don’t like this because it’s a lot of work and they’d prefer to optimize for acing the AP tests. But in retrospect, my kid says he’s happy because he feels very well prepared for his college classes that build on the material.
Yes, similar.
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Yes, I believe most parents in our district trust the teachers and, if anything is greatly amiss, the students will let us know (there have been some problems in the math and PE departments, but otherwise, things seem decent). I can’t say I know much about the curriculum being taught except what my daughter tells me about from time to time, and I am fine with that, actually. I don’t have the time or skills or inclination to try to oversee what teachers are teaching. I trust them to be competent professional educators, and honestly don’t care if they are adhering to College Board curriculum as I trust their judgment as educators - and, in fact, that is one of the reason our school offers very limited AP classes - because teachers prefer to use their own curriculum rather than the College Board’s and feel they can create something equally if not more rigorous than what the College Board prescribes. As a parent, I am fine with that.
For us they do, usually just a few weeks after the AP exam.
Well, and ours don’t. So there is variation. And the result of that variation is that some students may choose to take the AP exam and some students may choose not to. Things are not the same at every school.
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I wouldn’t describe ours as different. They follow the format.
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One topic I never see discussed (or studied) is the extent to which test optional policies can help students with learning disabilities. Anecdotally, at S24’s school, the ability to apply test optional was a big help for strong students with excellent grades who got subpar test scores despite accommodations and significant test preparation. SAT and ACT accommodations are imperfect tools. For example, imagine having to answer some of the detail-oriented reading and writing passages on the SAT when you are relying on a reader to read the passages out loud to you, as some dyslexic students do.
The share of students with some type of learning disability is not small. And colleges do claim that they want to enroll and support such students. Wouldn’t it make sense to analyze whether their success is impacted by testing policies?
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I think most who oppose to standardized testing are not against it per se.
Suppose there are four applicants A, B, C, and D. A and B are privileged with identical profiles except A has a higher SAT than B. In contrast, C and D are disadvantaged with identical profiles except C has a higher SAT than D, although still below B. Most who are against the SAT will have no problem with AOs ranking A ahead of B, and C ahead of D.
What they have a problem with is when only two of the four can be admitted. Should the AOs admit A and B, A and C, or C and D? This is a complex issue that calls into question, among other things, what should be the mission of a selective university, how should our society be shaped, etc. In short, an issue that has to do with academic and political ideologies.
Standardized testing is just something that stands in the way of their ideologies (nothing wrong with that, everyone has a preference), with the SAT being in the crosshair.
Some are more different than others. The AP math and science classes simply go beyond the AP curriculum. But our “AP Econ” is notorious for being very different (supposedly it’s based on some UC Berkeley class). My kid almost didn’t take the AP test for that reason, but he ended up doing fine on the test anyway, so he’s glad he took it…
I am not the parent with a student that faces such challenges. Having said that, this is something I struggle with wrapping my head around. I understand tests in general being a challenge. I don’t understand what is so inherently different about the SAT that kids who get proper accommodations manage to excel at school but bomb the SAT. School has tests, colleges have tests, APs are tests.
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This is my daughter. She wasn’t ever going to go the Ivy league, but she was able to go to a highly regarded LAC despite her terrible SAT scores. And she’s doing well!
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That works if your school is Exeter or Andover, and everyone knows the rigor and quality of students there. For the vast majority of schools, just the assurances of the school alone would not be sufficient. I am sure every school in the US is happy to say they are doing a great job offering a rigorous curriculum.
People will believe what they want.
Well said, and I totally agree.
In this and any other case, the admissions team would decide based on their own priorities. So the results for applicants A, B, C, and D would most likely be different from colleges W, X, Y and Z.
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AP CS A is like that at our school. The class is not called AP CS A, however, bc they do not follow the AP approved curriculum. Kids take the test and do well.
I’m sure different students have different experiences. But I know that the detail-oriented, fast-paced, multiple-choice nature of standardized tests can be challenging for students who otherwise excel at complex essay or analysis based exams.
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Our school is just a small California public high school, yet I feel pretty confident in the quality of the teaching and the rigor of the classes ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Glad you do, but others might not. Frankly, why would they? Data based evidence is used by most people in evaluating things.
In our district, most actually do! We are fiercely loyal to our teachers here, evidenced by the amount of public support - and praise - they continuously receive at school board meetings, in FB groups, etc. (Again, there have been a few very specific problems with certain teachers in certain departments and these are well-noted, well-known, and discussed as well. But a good 85% of the teaching staff are considered excellent and receive praise and trust from district families.)
Our students get into good even great colleges and seem to do quite well at them in general. This has been consistent over many years. Seems like pretty good proof to me.
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Great! And as long as the families stay in that area, all is well!
I get that, and I am being genuine in my questioning. But how is it fast paced when there is extended time? And what happens with APs or any other class that has multiple choice questions? I believe the format doesn’t favor everyone but that is not exclusive to the SAT. You see lots of parents saying they have a stellar student but they are bad at the SAT. I don’t see how so many people can completely avoid the challenges of the SAT to the level they are “stellar”
ETA - I have a friend with very bright kids for whom the SAT is absolute death. They do amazing in certain classes, but others are a struggle.
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Some schools allow repeated takes of an exam, or extra credit to improve gpa. Parents then think the student is “stellar” from the high reported gpa, not understanding the context.
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