APs aren’t readily offered in the rest of the world.
I’d want to know wrt SAT/ACT because until now most highly selective universities held the ACT/SAT as non significant even if they required it (in part because it favors systems where standardized testing is the norm over long-form essay exam systems and selective universities actually like rigorous essay exams, in addition to wanting applicants to come from the entire world without affecting pools from all the British&French patterned systems all over, and in part because it includes math, which only STEM-streamed students study -you could be a stellar 
4 ALevels:sparkles: type with Ancient Greek, Classical Civ, Philosophy, and Literature - a mind-bogglingly hard combination-and score 400 on the Math SAT.)
I suppose they could take into account real exam results from GCSEs, Brevet, Junior Certificate, National5/Highers… but predicted results for ALevels, Bacc, Leaving Cert, Advanced Highers…would be more significant. (It’d be like thinking a random 10th grade AP score would matter more than solid evidence you will get 4 5s in APs that matter for your college major.) So, this is really puzzling.
I’ll wait for more details, I’m sure they’re forthcoming. Indeed, for instance, US schools may not be good at providing solid “predicted” scores since those weren’t used/calculated/needed, when international schools have decades of experience and rarely get ir wrong (if they did they’d be in trouble with the national system or the IB body for their world region.)
I agree with you that a class labeled “AP X” should be sufficient to prepare students well for the AP X exam, no matter how they teach the class. Students who do well in the class should have a good pass rate on the associated exam, if they take it, and a good chance to do well, too. Otherwise, it is not really an AP class.
Yale isn’t allowing any predicted scores:
- Only completed or final test scores — not predicted scores — will fulfill Yale’s standardized testing requirement.
Scroll down to the Specific Testing Policies section: https://admissions.yale.edu/standardized-testing
I wonder if Yale is trying to cut down on international apps and/or get more of them to take the SAT/ACTs? Clearly no one is going to have many IB test scores to submit by app time.
I think almost all the international students already take the SAT; in practice little will change
Data? I am not sure that is true, at least anecdotally, not sure I have seen actual data.
Kids at our school must take the test - if they don’t, the class weighting is downgraded to “honors”. Financial support is available for kids who can’t afford the tests. Also, neither of my kids studied for the exams - the class itself was the preparation (and often went further).
More than 100K SAT/ACT tests are taken internationally in 120 countries. I would assume that likely is mostly composed of those applying to selective US colleges
Thanks, I’ll look for some data, I’d rather not assume.
I believe the program has just enrolled its second cohort of students so probably too early to tell. I am curious whether the participants continue at Oxford or choose to transfer to another university (and, if the latter, why).
Not true at our school which again demonstrates the variation despite it supposedly being “standardized.”
Why else would one take the SAT/ ACT? Are there any foreign universities which require it for non-Americans?
Oh, the AP exam is standardized, @worriedmomucb. Those who took the actual course and took the exam followed the same curriculum, and demonstrated mastery of it .
For the rest, who knows? Others can name their courses as they wish, subject to trademark infractions.
I expect that every school treats things differently.
Responding to this questioning and bringing up something I haven’t seen talked about much on this thread or others about standardized testing.
Stellar students may not test well on the SAT if they are stellar in some subjects but not others. A lower (and lopsided) SAT score doesn’t mean they are not stellar students who can thrive at any university. After all, students aren’t going to major in every subject - just the subjects they enjoy and do well at.
My S22 is an example and I bet there are tons of kids like her. She always disliked math and knew she would not go into any field remotely STEMish. She got As in math throughout high school (highest class - precalculus) by working very hard and constantly meeting with her teachers. But she did not excel on the SAT. She got 800 on the verbal part and couldn’t crack 600 on the math.
She applied test optional and now attends a T10 school and has straight As. Her low SAT math score does not keep her from writing amazing papers, working with professors on research, and thriving in her chosen major. Right now she is interested in getting a PhD in a social science subject and I’m sure she’ll do great in grad school. She knows enough math to pay her bills and save money and she is fine with that.
I am sure there are tons of other kids with “low” SAT scores because they thrive in one subject and not the other. And they will be very successful at any university.
This is the approach Oxford takes. Send all the required scores, but they only care about the ones in your major.
That’s why the admissions team makes the big bucks. I think we should (must) assume that they know what they are doing for the slots they are filling. No need to hide anything.
Could it be that this program just isn’t long enough? It seems like it would be hard to remedy 4 years of inadequate schooling in 10 or so weeks but a full year of intensive work with a bunch of really bright and motivated but underprepared kids could have a large impact.
Our Physics classes are like that. Not AP classes but they tell you which AP Physics exams you can consider taking with a little self-study.
Then our (very few) AP classes are that “AP + more” format. Like, the Calc BC class is mostly just to the design of the Math Department as the class that sets the kids up the advanced math electives. But, they also spend a little time making sure the kids know everything for the test as well.
The only real difference is therefore with Physics, some self-study is expected, and with Calc, it is not.
I do feel like maybe the baseball analogy was directed in part at saying Yale understands this and they will want to admit some students like that (they seem to be calling them “knuckleballers” like the pitchers).
In practice, though, what else will they need to be satisfied you are a Yale-level knuckleballer? And will that make it harder overall to be admitted, or make it more limited in terms of access? Lots of questions.
Speaking of questions, I agree it probably is going to take some direct addressing of A-Level cases to really sort out what Yale is going to require. My reading between the lines is maybe Yale does have concerns about A-Level cases where they are concentrated in just STEM, just HASS, or so on, and then they have to do a variety of Yale courses outside that interest. So maybe they do in fact want to see an EBRW score for a STEM A-Level applicant, and a Math score for a HASS A-Level applicant, and so on.
But me reading between the lines is not them actually saying it, and I hope they do make this all clear for potential A-Level applicants.
The exam may be standardized, but the context and the teaching and evaluating leading up to it are clearly not.
Yeah, but how many unique internationals at least are looking at applying to US colleges these days? What percentage is that, in other words?
I know at least anecdotally, some of the international I encountered online this cycle had test scores, but some just had A-Levels or some other high-level college prep credential from their country.
I don’t think she thought of it as hiding anything. Just as presenting all the positive things she offers a school.