Stuck in awful marriage

Parent Cafe
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<p>One of the things I have the most difficulty with in my current relationship (35yrs), is that I don’t say anything I don’t mean even if I am angry and provoked. Now I might say something that I wish I didn’t, but nothing that I felt wasn’t true.</p>

<p>H on the other hand will say things he doesn’t mean or that aren’t true , whether to hurt me as much as possible or/& to push me away as far as he can.
It has taken me this long to accept that his mouth is only connected to his reptilian brain at times and that he truly doesn’t believe it.</p>

<p>Even though we can now go for over a year without a big fight ( & that the big fights are much smaller now) it still can be painful when he lashes out.</p>

<p>However I have been using skills that I learned from Don’t Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor & I have gotten pretty good at disengaging when he was looking to attack. ( I also have gotten a lot better at not setting myself up for one in the first place)</p>

<p>When there is something I need to discuss that is going to be tough I let H know and try to pick a “good” time to do so.
I also write out what I want to say beforehand & give him an opportunity to read it in private before I try and resolve the issue.
I also don’t just write my complaints out for him to read over again, I also write down when something has gone well or when I am particularly happy. I notice he hangs on to all these things and even though he doesn’t always respond much at the time , I feel like it helps to keep us on the same wave length.</p>

<p>I sense with op that there is so much pain and anger on both sides that nothing is going to change until she is able to find help to get the support she isn’t getting from her H.</p>

<p>He may not change but at least she will feel like she has more control over her life.</p>

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<p>Right – if he asks “how’s work?” and I respond “it’s pretty stressful – business is slow but the bills keep coming in” then I mention that I spoke to my sister while I was at work and she filled me in on family news, later I’ll get from H: “Maybe your business would be doing better if you didn’t waste so much time on the phone with your family.”</p>

<p>So yes, I have stopped giving him any ammo at all.</p>

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<p>*One of the problems with H is that he would use ANYTHING I had ever told him at ANY past time as ammunition during one of his rants. This is a surefire way to kill the kind of intimacy in a marriage that allows a couple to tell each other confidences about their past, their dreams, hurts, etc. that they aren’t comfortable telling others. I learned not to tell him anything I didn’t want thrown back. Sometimes you don’t see in advance how something could be used as a weapon, so I learned not to tell him anything at all. </p>

<p>*</p>

<p>And this becomes a problem after divorce…things that were private are suddenly fodder for ammunition and “pay back”. We see this in the news…exes posting “private pics” or disclosing other intimate secrets…ugh.</p>

<p>However, the issue of “using info as a weapon” occurs often in relationships… The fine line is when it’s warranted and when it’s not. Obviously, it’s not fair to equate an occasional family phone call with interfering with business success. Certainly, no one would argue that a 45 minute phone call once a week will make or break a business. It would be fair if the communications were daily and for long periods of time and truly interfered. </p>

<p>I wonder if it would help to say something like, “YES, if I did spend 10 hours a week talking to family during business hours then it would interfere with my success. But I limit myself to the equivalent of a lunch break once or twice a week - when no other demands are on my time - so that’s not the problem with my bottom line.”</p>

<p>On the other hand, my FIL was never as successful as he could be in business because he often let himself be distracted by either personal interests or (worse) creating/fulfilling laborious procedures that just met his OCD needs. He’d spend hours fulfilling some mindless task (that he OCD created) instead of drumming up new business…but in his mind, he had worked hard all day. lol </p>

<p>If FIL later said that he worked 15 hours on (silly) ____ task, but didn’t make his quota for the month, my MIL would have been right to say, “Well, if you didn’t spend 15 hours on _____ (task that should take 2 minutes) you might have sold more insurance policies”…she would have been right to “use” the info that she knew about as long as she didn’t say it meanly. Sometimes we need people (who know us) to “call use out.” However, to wrongly use info or to exaggerate info is just ugly and mean.</p>

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<p><<“Doing the “wa-wa-wa I don’t hear you” really doesn’t work with someone who is determined to get in your face.”</p>

<p>It works better than trying to reason with him/her. I’m not saying it’s easy. I’m not saying most people can achieve true detachment where the words have zero impact. But it’s a good goal to work towards and can become a good survival technique if you can’t escape a bully’s rant.>></p>

<p>With a boss, you can get by on survival techniques. It’s quite a bit harder to be a zen master day in and out with someone you and your children live with and are legally bound to. Oh I tried to be a zen master, yes. Yoga helped me a lot. But if you have to employ emotional (or physical) survival techniques on a regular basis, that’s a good sign it’s time to get out of the relationship.</p>

<p>As to having things thrown back at me, I can’t tell you how freeing it is no longer to have to parse or choose words carefully or justify my time or loyalties to a man. I doubt I will ever have a serious relationship again, I simply have so little interest in going through any of that ever again.</p>

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<p>Wow. What percent of women live with men they hate? Could there possibly be a good reason? Life is short. This is so, so sad.</p>

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<p>Ok - I have not ready this entire thread … but I do have one suggestion if you stay - separate bedrooms. Move to another room. At least you get some sleep and some peace.</p>

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<p>This thread just makes me so happy to head off to bed looking forward to snuggling with DH.</p>

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<p>*What percent of women live with men they hate? Could there possibly be a good reason? *</p>

<p>Sad!</p>

<p>Who knows what the percent is. And, I don’t know if “hate” is always the right word. </p>

<p>I know someone who has little/no respect for her second husband (first H died). She stays for the kids and fears experiencing another loss. Her second H has many bullying/demeaning tendencies (and she’s a MD!).</p>

<p>So…fear is probably the number one reason.</p>

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<p>I’m with you, Waverly. There’s a lot of armchair quarterbacking going on in this thread.</p>

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<p>^ there are a lot of people for whom the OP’s situation reminded them of their own pain. And I’m finding it very sad as well.</p>

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<p>Yes, lots of sad situations. But there is a lot of projection going on here as well.</p>

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<p>What’s good about this thread is that the op knows she’s not nuts, no matter what her husband says or does. Knowing you are not alone in this kind of relationship, such as it is, is freeing. Knowing there are coping strategies is freeing. Knowing it’s okay to start thinking about leaving is freeing. Those saying this thread is arm chair quarter backing, at it makes them said, well look around you and I guarantee at least one of your friends is in almost this same place. If they aren’t telling you, maybe there is a reason for that. It’s good people are sharing, giving ideas, options, tools. Ii sense the op is smart enough to take what she needs, and as we know, others read these threads and maybe some advice or support isnhelping them as well.</p>

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<p>^^^Seahorsesrule!</p>

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<p>Thank you, Seahorsesrock. You are exactly right. This thread, the PMs, and the resources that I have learned about here have already made a world of difference. I am sure that it is helping others in similar situations, too.</p>

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<p>I am the one who said there is a lot of armchiar quarterbacking . The reason I said that is not because support isnt helpful, it is!! But IMO, as a professional in the field, there is some good and definitely some not so good advice being offered here. I have full faith that the OP can separate the wheat from the chaff. But to a person feeling vulnerable, as a person in a challenging marriage is, bad advice, even given with the best of intentions, can be very damaging.</p>

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<p>I can see where some of the posts come off as armchair qb’ing, but most people seemed to share and also almost everyone encouraged the OP to get help to work through things, very few people I read offered bromides. </p>

<p>The reason people stay in bad relationships from what I learned in my time working on things are varied, in many cases it is fear, could be financial fears, could also be the fear of being alone. If people like Harville Hendrix are right and we subconciously choose mates who have issues that recreate the environment we grew up in, then it could be that the attraction to stay is very strong. One thing I learned was that relationships are complex, not surprising, because people are not simple in the least bit which is why people need to find their own solutions to bad relationships.</p>

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<p>Well said, musicprnt. Your point is spot on, that what may work for one person may be unsuccessful for another. Situations differ. And sometimes people suggest that others do what they felt unable to do. They were fearful of the step, but hope others wont be. May be helpful advice , may not be. </p>

<p>Some of the banter about sexual activity was a bit much for cc, IMO. Flame if you must, I just think it doesnt belong here, and discussions of rape were a bit over the top. Again, JMO.</p>

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<p>The idea of a type of rape was brought up because seems the h is irked wife left the marital bed and still wanted to have sex while the op didn’t. And some said, well, in some cases sex can be a reconnecting experience. Some said leaving the bed may have made the husband angrier and some men just don’t get that when you are mean, your partner may not want to have physical contact. To expect sex after treating your partner sonpoorly is a kind of rape, if not of the body, then of the soul. </p>

<p>Of course not all advice is for everyone, and everyone knows their partners best. But it can be helpful to hear how others coped. What methods they used to hold onto their sanity and their dignity. For some men the slant treatment does wonders. For others it may be standing ones ground. For another, it may be rational discussions.</p>

<p>I see this thread as a kind of girl friends getting together and sharing their own experiences. The op has been with her husband for a long time, and seems he isn’t mellowing but getting more difficult to deal with. After awhile, one gets used to the dynamic, and then there can be the perverbial straw, an aha moment, an i deserve better, I’m a good person, it’s not me, it’s him moment.</p>

<p>Hearing from others who had similar dynamics and moments is very healthy and helpful. And if those people say, this is what I did, awesome. The op came her, as a kind of spring board to figuring out how to take care of herself, legally, mentally, financially.</p>

<p>Yes relationships are complex, and no one solution works, no one style, no one here said that. However, I give the op credit for bravely saying to others, even in a chat room, what is in her heart and in her mind. That takes guts to admits how unhappy you are, to take of the mask even a little bit. Every journey starts with a step, and this was the ops step. She as much wanted advice as she needed to vent, put it out there in a safe way to get the wisdom from others. you can have a therapist give advice, but that in no way diminishes the advice from people who have been through it. </p>

<p>I give the op the benefit of the doubt to figure out her path, she has more strength in her than she even knows. She is stepping into the light and seeing things for what they are, and she ain’t thrilled. No one is saying leave, no one is saying stay, only the mop can make that decision. But at this moment in time, she needs tools to get through the days, and not go bonkers and be on tenterhooks all the time. </p>

<p>It’s saddens me when people don’t realize that women are wise, that we have insight, that we have experiences and that we want to hear from other women. And that we are smart enough to figure out what tools we have been shown will work for us.</p>

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<p>I totally agree. Having been through a separation and reconciliation and years of counseling, the one thing I’ve learned is relationships are complicated and it’s easy to say ‘just leave’ but that’s not always the right answer. The reasons people stay in ‘bad’ marriages are very varied and complex. Sometimes people feel they have way more to lose by leaving than staying. </p>

<p>Keep in mind, there’s a reason why 2nd marriages end in a much higher divorce rate than 1st marriages. It’s not because someone got unlucky or choose unwisely the second (or third) time around. It’s because they had issues to begin with that weren’t addressed and now they are in a marriage where there is even more complications (ex-spouses, children from previous marriages, financial issues, etc). For that reason alone, some people feel it’s worth staying and trying to work through the issues in the first marriage. I use to be one who ‘felt sorry’ for women who stayed in unhappy marriages - thinking they were somehow weak or too afraid to leave. Now I realize that was simply my uninformed interpretation of the situation. It’s always way more complicated than that.</p>

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<p>One last point, with regard to the rape line of discussion, if a women feels obligated to have sex with her husband to keep the peace, how sad is that. It’s a spiritual assault. </p>

<p>It’s brave to stay and it’s brave to leave. If one stays in a bad relationship, and if you are with a bully, one must find ways to get through the day. We give our kids tools, strategies, advice on dealing with bullies. </p>

<p>Just because things are complex doesn’t mean we still can’t share a collective knowledge through experience. </p>

<p>Sadly, if he hit her, we’d be all over it, but as his cruelty is verbal and the wounds are hidden, it’s easier to say it’s complicate, stay out of it.</p>