Stuck in awful marriage

Parent Cafe
61

<p>I’m not a lawyer, but the story I told before of the woman who ended up in jail was not a situation where a divorce or separation was in progress. She left and tried to disappear for safety reasons. He found her and he pressed charges</p>

<p>What “charges”? She broke no law or court order. You’re missing some pertinent info. </p>

<p>It is not illegal to leave any state with your own minor child as long as there isn’t a court order or similar preventing you from doing so. </p>

<p>Regular married folks (with no legal actions pending) are not prohibited from leaving the state with their own kids w/o the other spouse’s permission.</p>

62

<p>I know this sounds counter-intuitive and humiliating, but it really is a small thing that can have a big effect with men: Do you compliment him? Believe it or not, some men with huge egos can be put at bay with simple compliments, especially if you make them in front of the kids, like: “Girls, your dad has a really important job,…he has to get up so much earlier than we do to give us the life we have, and we appreciate it everyday…blah, blah, blah…” and “Thank you so much for loading the dishwasher!!! I am so lucky to have a husband who does this!”</p>

<p>I await the attacks from those who disagree with me, but making marriage work is all about compromise and fulfilling each others’ needs. Acknowledging small things in an exaggerated way is not a big sacrifice if it means saving the family unit.</p>

63

<p>OP, I could have written your post 5 years ago. Even the part about the getting up early/making noise so you can’t sleep any later (my ex-H considered sleeping past 6 am to be lazy, and he didn’t want anyone in the house to do in on ANY day of the year). Sometimes he was just flat out aggressive, and sometimes just passive aggressive… but the constant “black cloud” of his anger and poor treatment was horrible.</p>

<p>Like you, I stuck it out because I was afraid of losing my kids (and afraid of what he would do to the kids if I wasn’t there to act as a buffer). Finally I caught him cheating, and that was the last straw. I told the kids we were getting divorced because their dad had a girlfriend, and it wasn’t me. I think they were relieved, and looking back, they are pretty much happy we split up.</p>

<p>Like your H, he fought mightily for 50% custody. But I had a good lawyer, and put a lot of pressure on him to look at the kids preferences. They made their opinions clear, and in the end he relented and ended up with every other weekend and half time during school holidays. Maybe even your angry H would see that he can’t very well take care of a middle-schooler if he is working 12 hours days all the time. And if it goes to court (we settled), the judge may ask the kid’s opinion. You should talk to a lawyer, though, as many states have calculations used to split time (and money) that need to be followed unless mitigating circumstances can be proven. That is state specific.</p>

<p>My older D (college senior) spends minimal time with her dad. Goes once or twice for dinner to his place while in town, but NEVER stays there. She was a senior in HS when we split up. She is cordial (even affectionate) with him, but she knows the score. D2 still has visitation. She hates it (ex-H recently married the woman he was cheating with). But she has only a year until she is 18, then I think she will take the same path as her sister (minimal time with him). He also has not helped much financially (minimum child support required by law, and a few small additional items). But I cover all the private school tuition and college tuition by myself. Believe me, my kids know which parent has their back, both financially and investing time & energy with them. I still can’t believe he made such poor choices and has essentially lost his kids. I cannot imagine doing the same. But he did.</p>

<p>I didn’t have to move to another location for my job, which was good. But I will tell you that all in all, getting divorced was the best thing I ever did for ME, and it has been no harder on my kids than living in the same house with us in a miserable marriage. There are occasional lonely days (especially if he has the kids on a holiday), but I know that I have their hearts and love for life, and they choose to spend time with me when the choice is their own. He can’t say the same. Sad for them, but it was the best choice for them and for me.</p>

<p>Get a good divorce lawyer… I waited a few months for mine to be available, and that was a good decision. Good luck, PM me if you need to chat any time.</p>

64

<p>Bay…what you’re suggesting can be very powerful with men who aren’t suffering from depression like this man seems to be. Your suggestion is very beneficial when a person is just feeling under appreciated/taken for granted. That’s not really what’s going on here.</p>

<p>Moodiness, outbursts, unreasonable anger, etc, are all signs of depression. The man needs to be diagnosed and treated. Sometime back, I posted about a similar male that we know in our social circle. Similar stories…eerily similar. Clinically depressed.</p>

65

<p>Your story makes me sad, Sadmom, because your H is just like my dad. I noticed that he was a bear of a human being right around age 10 or 11… it affected me long before that, but it took me til then to realize that he was not normal and that I was missing out on what a father was supposed to be. That’s really sad, too. I was so bitter about it that suicide was a concern from age 10 to, I don’t know, maybe 19-- and even now that that’s no longer a concern, having to live at home post-college because I am underemployed is making me hate life because I know I still haven’t escaped what I so desperately wanted to run away from as a child. I’m still here, and it hurts just the same as it did when I was 10. And my mom had no idea any of this was even affecting me until I told her as an adult, and still doesn’t know just how bad it was. I was angry with my mom for a long time for not leaving, probably angrier at her than at him-- she was an easier target, being mad at dad meant having to admit, REALLY admit, just what a loser he was and that hurt too much-- it’s hard not to take it personally as a child when the world blesses you with a sh***y dad. It FEELS personal, it’s never just a between-mom-and-dad thing-- kids feel it when their parents are mean to each other, it hurts us, too. </p>

<p>Mom actually told me in high school that the only reason she was still with him was because she couldnt afford to support herself. In a twist of irony, this is why I insisted upon going to college even though I couldn’t afford it-- I didn’t want to ever end up in that position and thought that going to college would prevent it. I’m 22 now, and they’re still married. The youngest is 18. They’ll never divorce, and they act like they’re happy now but they’re not. I’ve ALWAYS known that. The only youthful naivete I got to “benefit” from was not knowing that my family’s pain was unusual-- which is scary, because if I’d never realized that I probably wouldn’t have left the abusive relationship I ended up in myself as a young adult. I left because I saw my father in him and I knew what would happen if I didn’t leave. I was lucky to have come out that way. My younger sister is not so lucky. </p>

<p>I’m not mad at my mom anymore. I get it, and I’m very sorry that you are where you are. I don’t know the right answer. I think there probably isn’t one. There’s just what you can do, and what you can’t. You can go to counseling and get someone to help you figure that out so that you know what to do. That’s all we can say to you. Good luck, and you have my sympathy.</p>

66

<p>I am sooo sorry to read of your sad and painful story. I haven’t read the other comments, but maybe in this case its a good thing because my thoughts are totally independent and not influenced by the others:</p>

<p>I completely understand, and in some ways greatly admire, your willingness to stay in the marriage for your children. Given the choice, I might do the exactly same thing. But now you write this:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Here I disagree with you and it is starting to sound like a cop out. if your kids are in college, they will cope. Sure it won’t be easy but they will deal. And I’ll bet a million bucks that if they had any idea how unhappy you have been, they would also be supporting your decision. You sacrificed and gave all of yourself to create the stability they needed, but now it is your turn to have a happy life. </p>

<p>I’m sure others have suggested it but I’ll say it again: get into therapy! Talking privately to a psychologist will help in so so so many ways that we strangers with only a box to write can not. You have a lot to sort out but please, seek professional help to do so and find <em>the best path for you</em>.</p>

<p>I wish you loads of luck. It will be harder before it gets easier but as someone who had to go through a painful divorce (if that ends up as your best path), I assure you life is MUCH better on the other side. I lost a marriage I would have tried to stick with, and at the time I thought my marriage was great (until the tragedy of a particularly horrible affair). But I managed to remarry and good lord, I had NO IDEA how great a marriage could be! HOLY COW! Funny how I did not want to leave my first marriage (despite the affair I wanted it to work if only for our child), but in hindsight? THANK GOD my ex husband left us or I would never have known real love. I’m SO THANKFUL it happened. I found real love, what a fantastic marriage is like, and you know what? I realized i deserved to be loved like I am now! YOU DO TOO! Life is way way way too short to stay in a miserable marriage that you’ve been unable to fix over the decades.</p>

67

<p>

</p>

<p>My ex and I did this, and I highly recommend it! It was fast, easy, and relatively inexpensive AND it saved our relationship. </p>

<p>But I do not believe it works in cases where there one dominates and is a bully, and the other tends to acquiesce to keep the peace (which sounds like the case here).</p>

68

<p>In our state, once a child is 13, his/her preferences as to which parent he/she chooses to live with are given heavy weighting by the courts. An attorney (or a search online) may be able to give you some idea of how custody issues are handled with children old enough to have input.</p>

<p>Therapy for yourself is REALLY helpful. BTDT. I could have written a lot of what you posted, though there was never the favoritism re: the kids. Lots of bad family history on his side; he never saw a functioning family, and for him, control was how he kept his universe from falling apart. (He had to assume many adult responsibilities as a young kid. CPS was often involved.) </p>

<p>When I started seeing in therapy the patterns in my behavior that were holding me back just as much as my DH’s words were (and believe me, my psyche bought into all the things he said), it was a good wake-up call to take care of myself and stand up for myself more. I have found that if I take a stand (and I do not have to yell or be confrontational, either), DH is much more likely to listen. Sometimes it’s later rather than sooner…but it is progress.</p>

<p>I have learned to embrace DH’s long hours as a time to focus on my interests and to figure out the next steps in my life, and I am able to give him more of my attention when he <em>is</em> home. He’s a lot more appreciative of me these days. Some of that’s guilt on his part for being gone so much, some of it is that I have not backed down when he gets outrageous.</p>

<p>Continue to be the emotionally available parent to your kids. They need you. Acknowledge the craziness. Tell them you know it’s not a good way to live and that you are doing things to make your life and theirs better. They KNOW what’s going on. You don’t want your older child to be so afraid for you that he/she doesn’t want to go off to college. You don’t want your younger child to feel like he/she’s the only the link that holds the family together.</p>

<p>We can’t tell you to stay or go. Just want to let you know others have been in your shoes.</p>

69

<p>I have ordered the book VeryHappy recommends. I read a few reviews and they were eyeopening. I had not realized that what I have experienced is abuse. And I will try the hotline, romani. </p>

<p>mom2collegekids, my concern is not that my husband can read my emails, but that they might at some point be made publicly available in a form that anyone could search for names. I would never use my work email for this kind of material. I’ll have to figure something out. I wish I knew more about how to do things privately on the internet.<br>
Thank you, intparent, and others who have shared stories of escaping unhappy marriages. It is great to read that sometimes things can work out well.</p>

<p>Emaheevul07, your story brought tears to my eyes. I am so sorry that you experienced such profound sadness. And your story scares me because I would feel awful if my kids were so affected. I hope that you find the peace and happiness you deserve, and find your way out of the sadness of your early life. Thank you for your words of encouragement. </p>

<p>starbright, my kids are not yet in college. It will be 5 years before the younger one is. I’ve thought that this would be a good time to leave. I don’t think my husband would even care if I did, once the kids were gone. It is great to hear that you found your way out of a bad marriage and into a great one. To be honest, another relationship is the last thing on my mind. I just want to be free of the one I am in, and to be with my kids.</p>

70

<p>

</p>

<p>Felony kidnapping. Depending on the state,it can be a felony to take a child to another state without the other parent’s permission which was the case. This is a complicated issue and I was only suggesting that the OP get legal advice before doing something like that. Since she has said she plans to talk to an attorney, it’s not really relevant anymore. In the intro in the link below is a story of a woman who was prosecuted for taking her kids to another state without husband’s consent.</p>

<p>[The</a> Impact of Parental Kidnapping Laws and Practice on Domestic Violence Survivors - Violence Against Women Online Resources](<a href=“http://www.vaw.umn.edu/documents/pkreport/pkreport.html]The”>http://www.vaw.umn.edu/documents/pkreport/pkreport.html)</p>

71

<p>Remember the song, “Is that all there is…?” Your post reminded me of that song. Seems like the marriage started one way, and eventually your DH’s job and his pain took all of his energy and left you the one to shout at. Sadly, that leaves you feeling sad, berated, and alone.</p>

<p>I think you should try to hang in there, for a variety of reasons. First, the kids. I feel it’s really helpful to be an intact family, even if the dad isn’t always there (emotionally or physically). I’m a teacher and many of my students come from dysfunctional families. Those kids really struggle much moreso than the intact families.</p>

<p>The other positive is that you not only have your kids, but also your job. That’s a good outlet for you. (BTW, since it doesn’t sound as if $$$ is an issue, why does it matter that you don’t make as much as your DH? If your husband resents the fact that he makes more than you, ask him why that matters. In fact, if he throws out the zinger that he makes more money than you, explain that at least you’re happy.)</p>

<p>I like many of the suggestions here: get a therapist is a good one. The “Leave” post is just awful. You do not want to disrupt your children like that, and make them feel like pawns. Wouldn’t it totally destroy your aim if you landed in jail? Why risk it, especially when your safety is not the issue. Not only that, but their day is bundled up with school and friends. You take away that, and that’ll be real disruption. However, you should manage your mental health. Do something fun for yourself: take classes, join a gym, a book club, meet friends for dinner. etc., etc.</p>

<p>Meanwhile your husband is really the one who needs to see a therapist. He sounds stressed out and in pain. Jeez, just waking up at 4:30 in the morning would do that to me! I kinda liked Bay’s suggestion to throw a compliment every now and again. Even if you don’t do that, at least don’t listen to your husband’s angry rants. Clearly they’re not directed at you.</p>

72

<p>Thank you, CountingDown. I hope that I can learn some effective techniques to deal with DH. I certainly don’t have any now. He won’t even listen to me.</p>

73

<p>Sadmomof3</p>

<p>Why did his first marriage end? Do you know the truth or do you only know what he’s told you? I wonder if his first wife would have a similar story to tell…</p>

74

<p>Op–sounds like you are putting much thought and consideration into a very difficult choice, good for you. Noone can guide you because there really are so many variables and as you state, your decision impacts you and your kids. I agree that leaving a bad marriage may be freeing, but the aftermath of change is difficult, albeit, life does go on. </p>

<p>Limabeans, you mentioned, “I think you should try to hang in there, for a variety of reasons. First, the kids. I feel it’s really helpful to be an intact family, even if the dad isn’t always there (emotionally or physically). I’m a teacher and many of my students come from dysfunctional families. Those kids really struggle much moreso than the intact families.”</p>

<p>Just want to point out that you are making a leap stating that your students that are struggling are the ones that come from dysfunctional families, then you state those are the ones that are not “intact”. I have seen many dysfunctional intact families, and the dysfunction is the issue, not necessarily whether parents live under the same roof. It is possible to maintain a stable and secure household following a divorce as others have noted.</p>

75

<p>*mom2collegekids, my concern is not that my husband can read my emails, but that they might at some point be made publicly available in a form that anyone could search for names. *</p>

<p>Then don’t use your full names in your writings. Can’t you just write something like Husband Bob, Wife Sue, Son16, Daughter12 as a code in your writings?</p>

76

<p>Sadmom, I don’t think you can change him. We don’t have the power to change other people. </p>

<p>I could have written a lot of your story myself. What happened in my case was that I got tired of living in fear of his criticism and his moods. I started traveling with my kids anywhere I wanted instead of fearing his jealousy, which would be there no matter what I did. I started to take one of them who was unhappy to counseling, and most importantly I started refusing to sweep our situation under the carpet. I realized he could not nor would he take care of these kids if his life depended on it, and no judge would permit it for many reasons. </p>

<p>We are now legally separated and I will say classicrocker dad is right - it has been wrenching for our kids. Our daily lives are MUCH happier and sanity now rules. But there is a deep hole, especially in my daughter’s heart, where her flawed but only father should be. </p>

<p>Good luck to you and I agree with the suggestion to seek an lcsw and at least a consult with an attorney - many divorce lawyers will do an initial consult at no charge.</p>

77

<p>My mother was in a bad marriage, it was awful, and in would have rather we livednin a shack than lived with my stepfather</p>

<p>As for complimenting a mean sob as suggested by hunt, please, it doesn’t matter with bullies, as the ops husband is</p>

<p>I too was the favorite child and it was not good. I head seeing everyone else treated lke dirt. Intact in a toxic household is not better then a divorced one. I wish my mother was brave enough to leave much earlier than she did.</p>

78

<p>*As for complimenting a mean sob as suggested by hunt, please, it doesn’t matter with bullies, as the ops husband is</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>I think it was Bay who made that suggestion, but maybe Hunt made a similar one?</p>

<p>Anyway…the word “bully” is the operative word here. That’s what this guy is in a nutshell. And, bullies have deep-seated issues. stemming from their own childhoods…which is why the only hope for him to get better is to have intensive psycho-dynamic counseling. If this guy was divorced from a previous wife, I’d bet 10 bucks he behaved in a similar fashion with her. This guy is the “common denominator” - he’d be awful in nearly any situation. </p>

<p>there is nothing his victims can do…if they’re happy, he’s going to be annoyed that they’re happy while he’s not. If they’re mad, he’s going to be mad that they’re mad. As the OP has stated, if she’s sleeping while he’s up in the morning, he’s going to make noise because he annoyed that she’s sleeping. However, I’ll bet that if she made noise at say - 2am - and woke him up, he’d be furious. He allows himself the freedom to complain about them, but interupts and “out-yells” to prevent her from voicing her own complaints. </p>

<p>The victms can’t win for losing. If the house is clean, he’s going to find some minor thing to complain about…maybe the smell from whatever cleanser she used to clean up…he’d find something.</p>

79

<p>

</p>

<p>I can see a happy man right there. I feel sad for him, and for you.</p>

<p>Talking to a professional is the best first step, you first and then he.</p>

80

<p>Sadmom, I wasn’t going to get into this thread, but reading through it and reading your op again, your story has a lot of similarities to mine. I won’t go into all the gory details, but hopefully there are ways you can at least improve this situation. </p>

<p>While you are working through everyone’s suggestions, maybe you can answer some questions. When your H is verbally abusive, how do you respond to him? How did you respond to his complaints about the wet towels? When he screamed at you about the groceries what did you do, how did you feel, and what did you say? If you can, give really concrete examples.</p>