Stuck in awful marriage

sewnsew · December 8, 2011, 2:51am

Sad Mom, I am sending you waves of support since your story was mine six years ago. Reading this thread so late in the evening, it seems pointless to jump into the fray–all I can say is that those who have never lived with a self-centered bully cannot possibly understand the effect of being worn down day after day, year after year.

His parents’ having divorced presents difficulties for my son. But my attempts to keep the marriage together against all odds until my ex finally committed a breach of trust (not sexual) so serious that it could not be allowed to pass harmed my son much more.

When I told him that I had decided to separate from his Dad, my then-15-year-old son said, “It has been horrible for you for as long as I can remember. I don’t know why you’ve put up with him for so long.”

My one regret is waiting so long to address an impossible situation for what it was, thinking I was benefiting my child.

bookworm · December 8, 2011, 7:02am

Ending my long term relationship with a verbally and finanially abusive man 4 years ago was the best thing I ever did for myself and my son. There are many books on this topic, and I reading one and saying “This is him” and “this is why I, a natural peace-maker and nurturer, tolerated so much.” When criticized, I’d agree. “Too bad I’m not as good a cook as your mother or ex-wife”, “Too bad I left out the paper towels, I’m such a slob”, “Too bad I’m not as pretty as I was when in my 20’s” “I understand why you had an affair, but given this woman’s other affairs, don’t expect me to sleep with you again and get a STD” . “Putting down my son is off limits, even if you continue to criticize your own” . Agreeing with him, adding on to his list of put-downs, helped me regain my core and sense of humor. His words stopped hurting.

You get the idea. Change in attitude doesn’t come at once. It began with just not trying to please him, creating my own world. Finally sharing some things with friends, more personal issues with a therapist. I had no need to use my lawyer as a sounding board, in fact, did almost everything by e-mails.

wishing you and the kids the best.

Classof2015 · December 8, 2011, 7:22am

sadmomof3 – I’m glad my post helped – here are my “shields” (mostly learned from 2+ years in therapy, with a wonderful social worker).

Detach. Mentally. Whenever he starts to abuse you. Don’t engage. Go to another place in your mind mentally, and repeat these words as you breathe slowly, peacefully: I am a good person. I do not deserve this. I am a good mother, and my house is well maintained and welcoming. He is wrong. I do not have to listen to him. He does not know what’s right. He’s just saying this to hurt me. It’s not about me – it’s about him.

Let me point out – when you don’t respond to his attack, he will get more angry, because that’s why he’s doing it – to keep you unsettled, to make you second guess yourself (in a nutshell, to make you think you’re insane). If he yells some more, seem uninterested. My favorite calm, slightly amused response – if you’re going to scream and rant, can you do it somewhere else? Or pretend you didn’t hear him. Sorry – I’m losing track – what are you yelling about this time? The bag on the counter. Oh. Whatever. I guess you can move it if it bothers you so much. Then walk away. Or read the paper.

Get out of the house/out of his target range as much as possible. Volunteer. Go back to school. If your children still need you around, volunteer at their school. As you said, you’re able to get along with a wide variety of people. Yes, it would be nice to have a normal social life with other couples, but he is deliberately isolating you so you’re under his control. I know you’re thinking “but he’ll yell at me if I go out and meet other people.” He’s going to yell if a breeze ruffles his morning paper. You’re trying to keep the peace by twisting yourself into a preztle. Untwist. Reach up to the sky. Develop yourself.

Read up on narcissists. This is him. It is my husband. Google it, and it’s like a big “a ha!” moment. There are techniques (read Sam Vaknin) about how to deal with them.

Faith – the God thing (God loves me; he’ll give me strength to get through this – it’s a test) did not work for me -another failed relationship - but some Buddhist mindsets do – like simply finding one thing each day that brings you joy. The sun shining on an old building. A squirrel, darting back and forth. The breeze gently lifting a tree branch, up and down, like a sigh. Forgive me Buddhists on this thread if I am misquoting, but what I’m trying to say is that your safety is inside yourself. By focusing your thoughts on you, and your own peace, and feeding your own peaceful place that you retreat to when he attacks, you might be able to survive a few more years of abuse.

You’re not alone.

Mom2M · December 8, 2011, 8:16am

Keeping a journal is an excellent idea. Keep in mind it doesn’t have to be email. Rent a post office box, write yourself a letter and mail it once a week. When you go visit your family take the letters and stash them there. Rent a bank deposit box and put them there.

Many have given you excellent advice. Detaching (as mentioned by Classof2015) can really help. Seek counseling, legal advice. Take advantage of the time is gone to prepare for the next stage in your life, whatever that may be.

Snowdog · December 8, 2011, 8:23am

So much wisdom here. My heart really aches for all the pain people put each other through. I woke up thinking about your situation Sadmom and thinking back on my own relationships.

What bookworm said - change doesn’t come all at once. It took me 20 years to slowly come to the realization that no matter what I did, how hard I worked, how much I tried to placate him (the post about complimenting him made me laugh hollowly) – it would not ever be enough. I can think of almost any holiday or event in life that should have been joyful and immediately associate it with some passive-aggressive or outright hurtful thing he did. I can still feel the twist in my stomach when his moods switched on and off. I realize his behavior is the result of a lot of childhood pain, but that does not give him the right to make other people miserable, for literally no reason.

Slowly, slowly, I started to resist, first in my mind and then in actions. And that’s when I began to get my life back. This may sound off the wall but may I suggest if you have not been taking care of yourself physically (so easy to let this happen), consider starting a regular yoga class. You may be surprised at the strength and calm and inner reserves that come to the surface. Again good luck to you, I have so much sympathy for your situation.

sadmomof3 · December 8, 2011, 8:28am

I have just a minute to post that I’ve quickly read all new posts (will read them more carefully later) and will be back tonight to respond to them and to PMs. Things in my mind are shifting. I had no idea 24 hours ago that I was being abused - well, I was starting to get an inkling. This is all so helpful, thank you very much.

Back tonight.

Nrdsb4 · December 8, 2011, 9:19am

Reminds me of a quote I heard recently: “Children would rather come from a broken home than live in one.” True in many situations, but each family is unique and it’s hard to make blanket statements about this kind of thing.

Child of divorce here. I cannot believe so many people here are telling the OP to stay because leaving would harm the children. Each situation is different; from the OP’s posts, none of us here are in any position to tell her what the best course here is, whether it is staying , divorcing, or even or taking the kids off to another state. The best advice given has been to get counseling, document the abuse, and consult a lawyer to understand all of the ramifications of whatever action she decides to take.

In my parents’ case, divorce was the answer. It allowed everyone to go on to better things. My parents each happily remarried and my brothers and I were spared the daily misery. I cannot imagine how much my Dad and Mom would have missed out on had they stayed miserably together in some misguided attempt to spare us a divorce. We adjusted.

My experience is just one and has no bearing on the OP’s, just as a few who suffered as the result of their parents’ divorce is irrelevant to the OP’s situation.

Good luck, OP. I think you are at least now considering things you might not have, and that is a good thing. I wish you healing, whatever course of action is necessary to obtain that.

mom2collegekids · December 8, 2011, 9:32am

*I can think of almost any holiday or event in life that should have been joyful and immediately associate it with some passive-aggressive or outright hurtful thing he did. *

Ruin holidays, vacations, plans, etc.

they have THEIR things that make them feel good…for some, it’s exercise/working out/jogging or their careers, but when faced with things that don’t make them feel good (vacations, holidays, kid noise, etc), they will lash out or engage in passive-aggressive behaviors to foil everyone’s good time or plans.

Many of these types will have a “shelter” of some sort. It might be their home-office, den, bedroom, or basement. It can also be their job if they can hole themselves up in a closed-door office. I know many guys have “man caves” and girls have “hobby rooms”, and this is kind of like that but it is so extreme that the person spends so much time there and away from the family.

They’ll exaggerate aches, pains, headaches, illnesses in order to manipulate situations. After all, who is going to demand that a person who doesn’t “feel well” go somewhere or stay somewhere? No. As soon as this type of person announces that he’s not feeling welll or in some kind of discomfort, everyone has to change their plans. This can be the most powerful thing…and they know it. All they have to do is announce, “I have a headache” or whatever, and they get to go home (return to “shelter”). The family is out for a day of fun, the manipulator announces that s/he’s not feeling well and everyone has to leave.

And, it annoys them to see others enjoying themselves. These are people who have very low self-esteem…stemming from their childhoods. (Which is why they need a therapist who is psychodynamically trained).

My H’s father was like this. I remember when my in-laws visited us and we were supposed to leave for a nice day trip. My FIL purposely took over 90 minutes in the bathroom (not his regular routine) to delay our leaving. I guess he was hoping that we’d cancel our plans (which were really my MILs plans). When we finally got to our destination, he stayed in car and listened to the radio (sports). When they came out for our older son’s Baptism, he stayed in our bedroom watching TV during the “after party”. When we traveled to spend Christmas with my H’s family, we all met at the SIL’s for Christmas Eve. My FIL and MIL arrived just at dinnertime, and then left right after. No time for my MIL to spend with the grandkids and everyone else. FIL didn’t like “kid noise”.

In their family room were two TVs…a big one for him, and a small one that sat next to the couch for her to watch - since he dominated the big one, she had to get a small one with earphones so she could occasionally watch what she wanted.

My FIL never yelled at my MIL, but he was nasty to everyone else, and pretty much influenced/controlled nearly every aspect of her life. At his gravesite, her words were quite memorable: “Well, now I can say what I want, and I now have more closet space.” 
Oh my!

With these kinds of people, it’s all about them…their wants, demands, requirements, rules, etc.

mom2collegekids · December 8, 2011, 9:39am

*In my parents’ case, divorce was the answer. It allowed everyone to go on to better things. My parents each happily remarried and my brothers and I were spared the daily misery. *

That can and does happen, when the people are “normal” and just need to be with other mates.

However, when you’re dealing with someone like the OP’s H, he’s never going to be happy, no matter who he’s with. So, unless the OP can divorce him and have little to do with him (not likely since they have minor children), this guy is going to make her/them miserable…even if they’re living in another home. It’s not like each person is going to go on their merry way.

If the OP can get herself financially sound (which it doesn’t sound like she can if she stays in the same location), then leaving would be good. I’ve noticed that those who’ve had similar experiences, but had the financial means to be independent from their exes, are the happiest. Those who still need financial support from their very difficult/mean exes, seem to still have to deal with a lot of crap.

zoosermom · December 8, 2011, 9:43am

Here’s another point of view. What if the husband is a miserable man who happens to be in chronic pain and, like a wounded bear, lashes out. I can tell you that I had some health problems last year that left me in unrelenting pain for almost 9 months. I couldn’t sleep, I couldn’t eat properly and there came a point at which I couldn’t think clearly. I know that I was lashing out and became impossible, but I couldn’t help myself. THankfully, I did receive the proper medical attention. OP, could you talk to his doctor and possibly enlist his help?

My parents had one of the worse marriages I’ve ever witnessed, my father could go years without speaking a word to anyone, but I know beyond question that it would have been much, much worse for me to not have my mother in my life every day. She was the one who made sure I was taken care of and would protect me from his temper. Being alone in the house with him, even alternate weekends and part of the holidays would have killed me.

zoosermom · December 8, 2011, 9:46am

I think this is key. Visitation from a distance, even in the best of circumstances, will involve fewer, longer visits. Think about that for a minute. The mom and siblings are far away, and the youngest child is alone at his mercy.

suzy100 · December 8, 2011, 10:01am

Just a quick note about “documenting” the abusive behavior: if you live in a no-fault state, that won’t matter. If you spend any energy in documenting the behavior, I would channel the focus on his behavior around the children, particularly the older one. That may help if there is a custody battle.

Nrdsb4 · December 8, 2011, 10:28am

Which is why I specifically stated that my experience was my own and had no bearing on the OP’s.

My parents were both “normal.” My Dad loved us and made sure we always knew it. He never talked bad about my Mom to us, nor did my Mom make us listen to complaints about my Dad. I do remember that they had a bad marriage, and when the tension ended, it was a huge relief. We had very tough financial times after the divorce, even though, according to my Mom, Dad never missed a child support payment. The legal requirements rarely match up to half of the expenses.

Even though our family was broken and we were on very shaky financial grounds, I remember my life after the divorce very fondly. The OP’s kids will not have the love and support I got from my Dad, which is why I would never advise her to leave. But nor do I advise her to stay, as I have no way of knowing if that would be good advice either. It might be terrible advice. Hopefully with counseling, she will find what the best course of action will be, both for her emotional healing and that of the kids.

In response to someone’s comment that the Dad could emotionally torture the children during custody visits after a divorce, it’s good to note at a certain age, a child cannot be forced to see the non custodial parent if they don’t want to. Very young children, yes, but depending on the state, children who are still minors but are in their teens, can refuse and can even challenge established custody decisions made by the court. My husband and his brother both refused to spend any time with their Dad after they were old enough to legally have a say.

mom2collegekids · December 8, 2011, 10:31am

*Just a quick note about “documenting” the abusive behavior: if you live in a no-fault state, that won’t matter. If you spend any energy in documenting the behavior, I would channel the focus on his behavior around the children, particularly the older one. That may help if there is a custody battle. *

Not true.

Calif is a no-fault state and when I helped a friend document her H’s behavior, that helped decide custody arrangements. It may not help with division of property, but it can sure help with custody arrangements…and that often means more child support for the custodial parent…which is a biggie!

If this lady documents his rants and such (especially towards a child), a judge is going to realize that this is a depressed and abusive person who shouldn’t have much time with his kids. Heck, maybe the judge will order supervised visits unless the H goes thru therapy.

Frankly, I’ve often wondered if a victim in these cases could document all of this, and then after the divorce sue the ex for abuse and get some kind of damages?

Let me point out – when you don’t respond to his attack, he will get more angry, because that’s why he’s doing it – to keep you unsettled

My neighbor said a similar thing. She would grab her keys and leave when her H would go “on and on” about something…often repeating himself over and over again. So, she’d get in her car and leave. Then her H would call her cell phone to continue his rants. If she hung up or didn’t answer her phone, he’d later say that he was “frustrating him” and go on about that.

I guess that’s what’s going on…they rant to take their frustrations out and if the person doesn’t participate or leaves, then they get more angry. She told me that often if she began crying, he’d stop…because in his sick mind, he “won” by making her as “unsettled” as he was.

I guess that’s a goal.???..he’s feeling unsettled and he won’t quit until he’s certain that she’s unsettled too???

I do agree with going ahead and doing what you like (vacation elsewhere or whatever) because people like that are going to be mad no matter what you do. If you visit your family (which is supposedly acceptable), then the complaint might be something like “you spent too much money,” “I got stuck feeding the dog for two weeks,” “While you were gone there was a storm and I got stuck cleaning the yard,” or whatever.

MaineLonghorn · December 8, 2011, 10:34am

I may have missed this if someone mentioned it already, but OP, do you think your husband could be bipolar? Our 16-year-son has been very hard to live with, but after going on medication for bipolar disorder, Type 1, he is doing SO much better. I have thought how fortunate he is to have been diagnosed at this age, before developing any serious relationships. In the past, I remember thinking, “Wow, his wife is going to wonder why we didn’t bring him up better!”

Nrdsb4 · December 8, 2011, 10:38am

This thread is making me thank my lucky stars for my husband. He’s quirky, pretty sure his way of thinking and doing is the best, and drives me insane with his snoring, but he sure is kind, loving, argues like he took a class in it (“so what I hear you saying is…” and "I promise to think about what you’ve said and reconsider my position, " etc.) and is such a loving father to our kids.

I hope that the OP can some day, whether it be sooner or after the kids are grown, find someone like that. If not, at least perhaps someday she can at least be happily on her own and not subject to the moods of an angry, depressed, and selfish individual.

Another quote I heard:“I’d rather be alone living under a bridge and being my own best friend than live with someone who makes me feel like crap ever single day of my life.”

suzy100 · December 8, 2011, 10:44am

I don’t think we are doing the OP any good debating legal issues here - everything is dependent on the OP’s state laws. I’m sorry for contributing to that.

OP, I’m glad you are going to see an attorney - you will get many of your questions answered and hopefully you can develop a strategy no matter what you decide to do.

Classof2015 · December 8, 2011, 10:48am

Nrdsb4 – your H sounds so nice. That’s a wonderful thing.

My only other comment is for the OP to look at what I call the “emotional pie chart of my day”. Look at how many waking hours you spend trying not to “set him off”, or worrying about what he’ll say or do, or trying to dance around his moods. And then think about if you spent that time on you instead – developing your interests, your set of friends.

I used to read all the articles in women’s magazines about how to fix what’s wrong in your marriage, and how to compliment him, etc., then I realized – it doesn’t work with this type of person. And why I am the one doing all the heavy lifting to make a bad relationship work?

So many stories here. I think zoosermom and I had the same dad. And mom.

Skyhook · December 8, 2011, 10:52am

It sounds like the OP is married to a selfish bully. But there are several bright spots here. From what I can discern:

It sounds like he does not physically abuse her or the kids. 
He’s gone most of the waking hours.
He doesn’t abuse alcohol or drugs, or gamble.
He financially supports the family.
He likes the younger kid.

The older one will be in college soon, and so that leaves–what–five or six years until the young one graduates?

I suggest the OP stay in the marriage until the younger child graduates high school. During this period, do two things. One is to make quiet financial plans for the kids’ college, and the OP’s future life as a single woman. The other is to get counseling for herself and learn how to better deflect her husband’s hurtful comments and actions.

Then, the minute the younger one leaves for college, the OP can pack her bags and leave. Assuming she has a plan for college payment for the kids, she won’t have much to fear from her husband. Custody issues will be moot, and she can live independently, albeit with a reduced income. I wouldn’t underestimate the havoc a nasty divorce could cause while the kids are still home.

romanigypsyeyes · December 8, 2011, 12:00pm

Verbal and psychological abuse is as bad, if not worse, than physical abuse. Psychological scars take MUCH longer to heal than physical ones. The OP should NOT stand another 6ish years of this- and neither should her children.

Stuck in awful marriage

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