The parallel is that neither could function effectively in a group meeting or a business-related social situation.
He may not be * able * to look at you and talk to you at the same time. In Asperger’s Syndrome and autism spectrum, many individuals are able to do one or the other but not both simultaneously. Reframe it in your mind - you are the one assigning his intent (he would not bother to look at you) and that intent you assigned may be incorrect.
Individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome and individuals on the autism spectrum sometimes prefer to deal with words and text rather than words and talk and facial expressions and body language and gestures and other nonverbal communication. That would explain why he prefers email.
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Individuals with Asperger’s Syndrome and individuals on the autism spectrum sometimes prefer to deal with words and text rather than words and talk and facial expressions and body language and gestures and other nonverbal communication. That would explain why he prefers email."
Well, I prefer email for dealing with a lot of my colleagues, too. I also prefer to be left alone and do my work quietly by myself as opposed to the kind of people who thrive on doing work in large groups. But that’s not the point - the work world doesn’t revolve around my preferences. For me to be a valuable employee, I need to have the ability to flex – to work by myself, in small groups and in large groups as needed – to be able to look at small details, and to be able to address big-picture issues – to know when to take a follower role and when to take a leadership role – and importantly, to be able to handle and interact with clients who have all different types of personalities, from the no-nonsense-no-small-talk to the let’s-become-BFF’s-before-we-get-down-to-business, from those who want to oversee every detail of my deliverable to those who trust me to bring it to them fully baked. Not having those skills is a major disadvantage, and it can be a deal-breaker.
Both hearing loss and autism spectrum disorders (or anxiety disorders, of course we are guessing at what this employee has) are a kind of disability. Possibly the hearing loss is easier to imagine for those without it, so somehow it seems like more of a “real” disability that others can help the person overcome with minor adaptions to their behaviors? I have to agree that I see no reason that this employee SHOULD be required to look the OP in the eye. It is a social nicety, but it is also a real difficulty for some people with certain disabilities.
The employee should, however, be able to interact appropriately, answer questions, etc.
The OP raised this thread as an eye contact discussion. Although I think some training for neuro-typical employees in how to successfully interact with an employee on the spectrum does not seem out of line to me. Both parties can adapt, IMHO.
A hard-of-hearing employee would have the ability to say (or communicate in some other way) - because of my hearing loss, it would be most appreciated if you (… signal you were are coming into my office in some way other than knocking, recognize that I can’t hear in large gatherings of people, turn off background noise / music, sit on my left side instead of my right, sit so I can read your lips, help me obtain some kind of adaptive devices such as a phone that flashed instead of rang, etc.). IOW, such a person is aware he is “different” and asks the rest of the world to help accommodate him.
Is someone who is on the spectrum like this even aware that they are different and able to articulate “hey, here are my differences, in working with me can you …” or are they not even able to perceive their differences, much less communicate them? It seems to me that if you don’t have the self-awareness to even know that you’re “different,” much less not have the ability to communicate effectively, you’re at a severe disadvantage in most work settings.
"He may not be able to look at you and talk to you at the same time. In Asperger’s Syndrome and autism spectrum, many individuals are able to do one or the other but not both simultaneously. "
“Able” to? The deaf person can’t physically hear, no matter what. The blind person can’t see. The person in the wheelchair can’t jump out and walk. What prevents this person from learning how to look someone in the eye, to mimic some aspects of neurotypical behavior (even if it feels forced or fake) - the same way those of us who are introverts learn that it’s nice to ask co-workers how their weekend was or make a comment about those Cubs, even though we may not really care.
Honestly… they CANNOT physically make eye contact while talking to you at the same time. It is pretty much physically impossible for my family members who have this problem, no matter how many times they are “ordered” to do so by parents or anyone else. It is like their brain insists that they have to look away while they are trying to communicate verbally or listen to someone. If they do manage to make eye contact, they then have no idea how long it is appropriate to hold it, and the other person often gets uncomfortable because they feel stared at.
Now… things like the Cubs question can be a learned behavior. But what you and I take for granted in this area is gained painful inch by inch by someone on the spectrum. They can’t take a general rule and apply it in social situations, at least my kid can’t. EVERY scenario seems new to them. Eventually some build a repertoire, but it is far harder for them than it is for us. Just because you can’t “see” their disability (it isn’t a sense you can image like hearing or vision) doesn’t mean that it isn’t a very real disability.
My kid was frustrated by her ability to follow social cues in middle school, so she embarked on a secret project to study YouTube videos of how other people made conversation, and to try to recognize their facial expressions and mimic them. I didn’t hear about it until years later. She has gained some basic skills… but I would still say she is several “grade levels” behind in this area compared to a neuro-typical person, in spite of years of work on her part. It is interesting to watch a movie with her at home where we can talk about it – she really can’t read the emotions of the actors from their facial expressions at all. I remember one movie where a guy met a woman and was clearly gobsmacked/smitten by her. D said, “He looks bored…”. He was anything but bored.
But I am pretty sure in the workplace my kid will be too engrossed to say hi sometimes, will leave when a conversation is too boring (although she would just quietly slip away, would not tell them it was boring), and will not engage in small talk about weddings, baseball, shopping, or whatever. Honestly, after years of failed attempts to engage with other people, I think she has decided it is better just to avoid people and conversations altogether – she is too afraid she is going to blow it somehow. And based on her early attempts, I know why she thinks that.
I am an introvert, but my struggles with that are minuscule compared to those of my kid on the spectrum.
This paragraph might highlight the “personal expectation” or " interaction style" issue very well. For example, I think I am more a person who prefers the interaction style of let’s-become-BFF’s-before-we-get-down-business (likely due to my upbringing.) Not necessarily need to be BFF’s before any business interaction can be started; but in the process of the interactions, I expect both parties in the interactions become friendlier as we go. Maybe some other people do not prefer this way.
BTW, I have known that person referred to in my original post for almost 2-3 years. His cubical is within the shouting distance from mine. Actually, when he just transferred to our group (our manager really did not hire him directly; he transferred to our group due to some organization change back then and he changed from a contractor worker to a permanent one shortly after that.), my manager once asked me to supervise + mentor him (It was then when I helped him with his “homework” when he was advised by then-manager to take some evening or online courses.) At one time, we even had a mutual agreement that I would teach him on a certain topic about 20 minutes every afternoon. Maybe among the coworkers in our group, I am likely the person who happens to know more about his family situation etc. due to that period (about 3-4 months.) Maybe because of this, when I heard from the manager that one reason why he had to work at home (but he cited another reason as well: He needs to take care of family business) in order to be “productive”, I feel hurt. It is not that we have never been “friendly” to each other in the past 2-3 years.
Well…just a moment ago, I passed some file to him (by email) and told him that he could enter what he needs to enter to that file for the next 3-4 hours. He originally asked me why he could not see the data that I had entered. I checked and the data had been there and told him that I had confirmed it is there. He rechecked it and agreed with me. But when I was curious about what happened earlier when he could not see the data, he gave me a silence treatment, not uttering a single word back to me when I asked. It is this kind of “small thing”
I think I know he is likely unhappy about one thing recently. He decided to take a long vacation (maybe more than 3 weeks.) The manager asked another coworker (not me) to take over that project when he was not around. When he was back from the long vacation, that person, with the blessing from the manager, decided not to give the project (that he likes I think) back to him. He almost totally stopped talking to that person also, as far as I can notice. That person also tried not to interact with him also (as far as he could.)
Where is there any evidence to support this statement? Could you kindly provide it? I have never read any evidence in the literature to support this statement.
When I read the first post here, I immediately thought, “Sounds like my son. . .”
S would never insult anyone, or make inappropriate comments–he has good manners, but he would never chat or make casual conversation, either. His response to a hello or goodbye might sound like a “Huh” or a grunt. He is highly intelligent and a very successful student, but he is on the spectrum and has some serious verbal communication deficits. (He is an excellent writer, though.) He’s a senior in college and I’m just praying he can find a job in CS (i.e. make it through an interview). It is very hard to teach someone to make eye contact. Makes me sad knowing he will be misunderstood due to poor communication skills. He has never been able to carry on conversation despite practice/therapy. He has never been able to make friends. It is something he/we will always have to deal with. I hope people will be understanding and not as quick to judge.
OP, regarding the situation with your co-worker not seeing the data you entered at first, and then seeing it, but not explaining to you why/what happened the first time when he didn’t see it–this sounds like something my son would do. Not speak unless necessary, or if it is too much trouble to explain something, just keep silent. He may be thinking that no explanation is necessary since the problem has been solved (he can now see data). Also, he may be embarrassed to explain how he at first made a simple mistake in trying to view the data, which he can now view, so no point in making an effort to tell you in detail about that mistake, even though you asked. (S uses this strategy sometimes–just don’t answer if you don’t know what to say/too complicated/pointless to explain. The other person will give up and quit asking/go away. Not a smart strategy, but I suspect that your co-worker’s “silent treatment” isn’t an attempt to be rude to you.)
Both WebMD and the Mayo Clinic websites list poor eye contact or problems with eye contact as Aspergers symptoms. I know I have seen something about a study where they determined that for Aspie patients it seems to be related to trying to speak or listen to others speak, and they can’t keep eye contact while doing that processing – but am on my phone, can’t find it right now.
Yes, poor eye contact is a well known symptom of Aspergers. But the report that they can’t engage in the 2 activities of eye contact and verbalization simultaneously is not a familiar concept. Perhaps the anxiety gets in the way, but not aware of 2 competing tasks not being able to engage in simultaneously.
Hmm, Googling on my phone, not finding it. But I did find a study from UW-Madison where they used MRI images while autistic kids looked at faces, and they found a high response rate in the amygdala when looking at faces. Essentially their brains perceive faces, even really familiar ones like family members, as a threat. I can see how that reaction might shut down or make other activities (like formulating a sentence or listening to one) quite difficult. Hence better to not look at faces.
But activation of the amygdala, which is an emotional center for positive and negative affect, does not really preclude the ability to speak.
@atomom, Thanks for the explanation.
It helps me to understand him better.
It must be heartbreaking to have a loved one be like this. I worry enough about my neurotypical kids making friends and being social at work. Of course it wouldn’t be right to be mean or rude to people who can’t help it.
It may not preclude their ability to speak, but you try formulating coherent sentences or following instructions when your “fight or flight” mechanism is kicking in. It is a defense mechanism in itself to NOT look at faces so they can pay better attention. I learned pretty early that as long as I could get my D to say that she was listening, that she probably would do so. But making her look at me as a way of ensuring that she was paying attention backfired. She was less likely to actually engage. By the way, car rides are good communication venues with many teens – with my kid, they were really the best. Side by side conversation is far more comfortable for her.
Right- if something makes someone uncomfortable, anxious, etc they will avoid it. But it sounded like that other poster said thre was some physiologial reason that aspies couldt make eye contact and speak simultaneoulsy and that is not anything I’ve seen said in my reading of the literature.