@garland, yes, thank you. I noticed. 
Having recently seen what suicide does to the survivors left behind, suggesting to “go ahead with it” is one of the cruelest, most senseless things I have ever heard in my whole life.
I know someone who took his own life just a few months ago. Did not know him well enough to understand what he was going through. I had no idea that he harbored those thoughts. But, I, like so many others were impacted by this decision. My job is on the line because he was a business owner and owned the business where I work. His family was impacted, his employees and those receiving his services. His family and friends are baffled and heartbroken.
I think rationally, if he can see what this impact has had on countless others, he might have made a different decision.
But what if I knew he needed help and told him to keep on his plans to end it? I suspect I would be culpable for manslaughter.
Heartbreaking.
@Consolation I did not lie. I clarified my statement immediately, in post #67.
@emeraldkity4 I am in no way saying that everyone has encouraged a loved one to take their life.
@sevmom found it interesting “that nobody seems to be coming forward to support this young woman.” As someone who in no way supports what this woman is alleged to have done, but who only suggests that there may be more to this story than has thus far been revealed and is pretty much being vilified for it, I can understand why people are keeping quiet.
The amount of vitriol coming out on this thread is pretty striking.
To be very clear on where I stand: My biological father committed suicide. So I am sadly familiar with the impact of suicide on a family, and do not take it lightly at all.
Having said that, I actually know of a case in which a dear friend of mine was going through some troubles and was at the point of considering suicide (this was before I knew him), and was under the care of a therapist I respect very, very much. My friend expressed those sentiments and the therapist said something along the lines of - if that’s really how you feel, then go! Go ahead and do it. My friend reconsidered, and now he’s here with us today. I say this in full knowledge that this was a therapist my friend had seen for many years, who knew him intimately and deeply, and knew what he could and could not say, and I am by no means saying that “oh, go ahead and do it!” is the appropriate thing to say, especially for a layperson.
I don’t think these alleged texts from her prove her guilt or exonerate her, but she certainly spent a lot of time trying to convince his mother and sister that she had tried very hard to save him.
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150302/NEWS/150309869
PG, do you think your friend’s therapist said that your friend should kill himself in the belief that he would or should kill himself? Or do you think the therapist was trying to shock your friend and did not think the statement would result in his death?
This is allegedly a text Michelle Carter sent to a friend:
Story is on page six and nineteen. Quote above is from page 19.
http://fairhavenneighborhoodnews.com/ARCHIVES/2015%20ISSUES/02-26-15%20Surrender.pdf
Any lawyers reading this?
Could she prosecuted on this law?
http://www.thelaw.com/guide/injury/the-legal-duty-to-rescue-or-help-another-person/
This is a Massachusetts law.
@MidwestDad3, I don’t think that amounts to withdrawing the accusation.
Nevertheless, I continue to agree with you that we have seen far too many cases of people being pilloried on the internet when it is not deserved.
There is the example of the young woman who tweeted something about getting AIDS and being white while en route to South Africa. Knowing more about her background and the context, it is clear that she meant it as an ironic comment on the comparative health risks of whites and blacks in South Africa. But she was excoriated as a racist while she was still in the air and could never recover.
If I’m not mistaken, there were close to 1,000 texts between the two which have been analyzed. This is not the case of one text being taken out of context. Since I haven’t read all of them, I haven’t taken a position, but the case above is ONE tweet. That’s really not the case here.
The idea of this girl writing those missives to the boy’s parents when they were so vulnerable makes my blood boil. Grief has its own irrational rationality, and reactions can be very unpredictable. She may not have realized it, but she could also have been putting herself in danger. She seems to be completely immersed in her own fantasy world and fairly oblivious to the fact that her actions could have real repercussions, not just in terms of his life and safety but her own as well. Did her friends realize what she was doing? Did she have a history of mental illness or sociopathy before this?
I do not think it would be wrong for B to discuss the pros and cons of suicide with A. I think “discussing” it might be exactly what a person contemplating suicide might want or need to do.
For me personally, offering an opinion to a terminally ill friend would depend on a lot of things. How old is my friend? Could advances in medicine provide a cure within A’s lifetime? How severe is A’s suffering and is there some medication available that might relieve or reduce A’s discomfort? (Morphine is quite effective for most pain.) Has A consulted his family and what is their position? Is A mentally competent? If A’s situation was hopeless, he was advanced in age and his suffering was intolerable, the only suggestion I would be comfortable making would be for A to discuss the matter with family members and consider establishing residency in one of the 3 states where assisted suicide is legal. In those 3 states the law has provided for safeguards whereby it is first established that ending their life is indeed what the individual wants. It would matter to me that suicide is illegal in the state in question more for my own protection and for that of A’s family members. The illegality of the act would presumably be irrelevant to A if he was successful in his wishes.
Of course the above scenario is very different from the case in question where it is alleged that Carter encouraged and guided an Roy to commit suicide even though he exhibited a reluctance to do so.
*My friend expressed those sentiments and the therapist said something along the lines of - if that’s really how you feel, then go! *
I’m sorry for your loss Pizzagirl, but why do you identify him as your " biological" father"?
Since therapists are generally obligated to press depressed patients on their feelings about suicide, and will have a verbal if not a written pact where the patient is obligated to tell them if they have formed a plan or are otherwise thinkng about suicide, I am shocked, that a therapist would ever use " tough love" on a suicidal patient, long time or not.
Since therapists have been sued when patients attempt or complete suicide, I’m also surprised that someone who has an unorthodox manner, could afford malpractice insurance premiums.
http://www.kspope.com/suicide/
A well meaning therapist for example might say that " your children need you", to a depressed mother, who believed her. She then killed her children, so they would not have to grow up without a mother, before she killed herself.
Because, IIRC, he was not the father who raised her?
Exactly. My parents divorced when I was young and my bio father was not a major part of my life. I last saw him when I was 5 yo. Another man married my mother when I was 6, adopted me a year later, that’s whose name I bore (as a maiden name) and HE is my real father. My bio father committed suicide when I was 9, though my mother and I didn’t know that he had died til many years later.
CF - I think the therapist knew my friend well enough (he’d seen him for years) that he knew just what to say to make my friend rethink. Again, I think it’s very unorthodox but this is an unorthodox therapist. I’m not advocating it, just relaying an anecdote.
99% of the time, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Where a person ends his/her life in advance of a painful, terminal disease, or to avoid a more horrible death, like the people who jumped off the Twin Towers on 9/11, I don’t consider that suicide. That’s simply choosing the manner of your imminent and unavoidable death.
PG, I see, thanks for the explanation.
My father also died from depression when I was 17 & he was 45. I barely had gotten to know him even though he had been the more attentive parent , and I lived with him for all of my life to that point.
@EllieMom My deepest condolences to you for your recent loss. This thread must be particularly painful for you.
{{ hugs }}
As for the therapist who supposedly gave the “go ahead”, that is extremely unorthodox. More typically, a therapist will request that his/her patient call them immediately if they’re having suicidal thoughts.
I wouldn’t say therapists “press” patients , but they do do a suicide checklist or inventory of risk factors and many have contracts with their patients, though I believe research has shown they aren’t extremely effective. Back in the day there was a therapist I think named Farley who taught a paradoxical approach like PG described. Instead of challenging the thoughts he believed in allowing the patient permission to consider them, but he went overboard with his encouragement and it was supposed t have a noxious response in the patient. Don’t think that approach caught on.