Yes, my husband and sons are in complete agreement with me re spending Thanksgiving without my parents. My younger son, who is turning 23, was witness to the entire scene last year and was apologizing to the restaurant staff as they tried to placate my father. Older son arrived a few minutes later and did not witness the scene, but he told me later that as soon as he sat down, he knew something had happened based on the tension at the table.
I have always encouraged my sons to have a relationship with their grandparents - even when my father has periodically not spoken to me for several months - I told the boys what was happening - but that they should continue to call/email/bvisit as they normally would.
Thanksgiving is important to me. It’s one of the one or two times in a year that I have both sons home at the same time. I just want to relax with my husband and sons. Spending time with my parents is generally exhausting and I am increasingly comfortable with my plan. If my parents are upset by it, so be it.
Whether you are with them or not, Dad will find some reason to be upset, might as well not ruin your Thanksgiving, too. Perhaps put your phone on DND for the afternoon, too.
We did a family Christmas on a different day to coordinate with travelers, I told FIL I would not be available that day, he literally called me 27 times that day. I thereby blocked him and from then on only got VM. After he died, I changed my ringtone because of the Pavlovian adrenaline rush every time my phone rang
I think the approach of just offering Friday or Saturday for delivering food and perhaps eating with them would be ideal. If asked about Thursday/Thanksgiving, it’s not available but choices are F or Sat. Good luck. Difficult parents are very tiring.
Why does it have to be a whole meal? What time would you do your Thanksgiving meal with your dh and two sons? If THE day is imperative for them, can you do dessert with them? Take your pies over there or something? Or is that just insufficient? I kind of feel like no matter what you do it will be “wrong,” in his eyes. So, I agree with others to do what you want. If he gets all bent out of joint, just tell him he ruined the holiday for you last year, and you aren’t going to subject yourself to that again this year. There is nothing disrespectful about being honest.
@rockvillemom - agree with those who say to give your family the gift of a joyous and peaceful holiday. Going one step further, it is very easy to focus on the elders’ wishes, trying to be the one who makes it right and role-models this kind of care taking for our kids. Over time, I’ve come to realize that demonstrating self-care, responsibility for the well-being of the family we created and the ability to set personal boundaries and limits is an important part of the message I want to send. DH and I were both the elder care givers in our family. Elders weren’t difficult people, siblings never pitched in. When our DD asked how come her uncle wasn’t helping me set up for a grandparent’s funeral, she brought home another perspective.
Someone told me to remember the 3 “C’s”: you didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it and you can’t change it.
My father called tonight and asked me if I would handle donating his car to charity, as he admits he is no longer safe to drive and his familiar neighborhood is no longer familiar. A good decision, but it is kind of hitting me hard. That 25 year old Mercedes was his pride and joy. To him, owning a Mercedes meant you had made it. I know this was a hard call for him.
And it struck me that this could very easily be his last Thanksgiving.
So, I’m back to the drawing board on this one. Maybe we bring food to them and have Thanksgiving with them at their condo. I no longer have the heart to leave them home alone on the holiday. Pain in the ass though he is, I think I would regret it later.
Be sure and set definite times you will arrive and leave. Plan something wonderful for your family the next night.
If your dad behaves better with a stranger present( my mother did) invite a friend to join you.
Whatever you decide will work as long as you know where your boundaries are and realize you are a great person.
Preserve the Friday and Saturday with your boys and H, then, for sure.
My dad had a meltdown the week after D1’s wedding. He is angry that I have a relationship with my niece (his granddaughter, my deceased brother’s daughter, now in her mid 20s). She traveled halfway around the world to the wedding. It was so fun to see her after several years, and I love the young woman she has turned into. He still remembers some rude behavior when she was 14 (something my kids could easily have done, too, but he did not witness - and my kids are the first to admit this). He was distant with her at the wedding, and now tells me I should not be in touch with her at all. He got so mad he hung up the phone on me when I explained that I love her and have every intention of staying in contact with her.
My brother called later that day (not having heard about this) and suggested I invite dad to travel to my city for Christmas. Ah. Nope.
We are speaking again. I called him the next weekend and acted as if nothing had happened, and so did he. It just goes on the (long) list of things the whole family now knows not to bring up with him.
Hope you find some peace in your decision, whatever it is, @rockvillemom .
Thanks. I have to discuss with DH and sons, but bringing food in and sharing a meal with them is how I am leaning now. No chance of an embarassing restaurant scene - we can control our arrival and departure. And then we can just relax the rest of the wknd.
If yo do eat with your parents perhaps you can have a meal with them early and then go home and spend the late afternoon and evening with your H and sons. Think of something fun to do as a nuclear family when you are back home (game night, movie night, make a dessert etc.) so you can start to make some new traditions.
It is a lot to sort out and there is no one right or wrong answer.
Do what will allow you to sleep at night. Set boundaries as others have said, and make enough time for you, your H and sons to relax and enjoy each other’s company. When it comes to elderly parents, there is no playbook that works for everyone under every circumstance. We all just do our best to negotiate that minefield.
I am not a tough love kind of person and I’m the first to say I’d have a hard time drawing a line. I don’t know that just because he gave up his car means his personality has softened. If the guilt will eat you alive I suggest you bring lunch there and stay for an hour and have second supper at home with your family later.
RVM, I can relate to your dilemma. My mother was extremely difficult, although she mellowed a little in her later years. I was lucky to have sisters to help handle her. We always included her in holidays and family events even though she could be unpleasant and often asked to leave in the middle of things like weddings. She passed away 3 years ago and it feels good to know that I did the right thing even though it would have been easier to cut her off.
I think you are right to set boundaries but still spend some time with them. I like the suggestion to have lunch with them on Thanksgiving and then spend the rest of the day with your own family. That will get the hard part out of the way and allow you some family time without guilt.
I think bringing a Thanksgiving meal over to them and then having the rest of the weekend to yourselves is an excellent solution. (I certainly would never want to go to a restaurant with him ever again!)
I really don’t think you need to make a declaration about how long you will stay. Have a departure time in mind, but see how things go. Maybe discuss it with your H and kids in advance so that you are all on the same page.
There’s nothing sacred about the dates. Your family can bring a meal to your parents on Thursday (turkey or not…it’s up to you), and on Friday or Saturday you can enjoy a traditional Thanksgiving meal in your home without your parents. There were many years where we celebrated Thanksgiving on different days to accommodate people’s schedules, and more than once we had two Thanksgiving meals - one at a friends’ house on Thursday and then a family Thanksgiving on Saturday.
One thing mentioned though was football on Thursday.
I need to say, the issue about “traditions” with elderly, ornery, willfully difficult parents is often phrased as that- it’s what they did, what they want. When my mother threw a bad wrench into things, we eventually had to do a 180, I had to look at our traditions for our kids, their todays and tomorrows. I couldn’t build their memories around an unpleasant grandmother and a false (to me) sense of “duty.”
On the Parents Caring for Parents thread, I’ve said I believe we try to do what’s right. That’s important to me. And maybe seeing them briefly is right for RVM. But this holiday, the sense of family, the enjoyment together, etc, is NOT just about our elderly parents’ expectations, not when we fret weeks in advance, walk on eggshells, and have to plan our escape. I think someone needs to say that. The trial is to balance. It’s not our fault we’re in the middle.
At the same time, I wanted my kids to see DH’s and my loyalty to my mother. We also did that the other 364 days. I didn’t gripe about her in front of the kids.
I needed to get that off my chest. Part of being the sandwich generation is trying to figure what’s best for all, not just what your parents want, when they make it emotionally challenging. I’d take a deep breath and remind myself my first duty was to my own kids.
That’s not as harsh as it sounds. DH and I still did the best we could.
@lookingforward Such a critical perspective and very well put! DH and I got to the point of very coldly prioritizing our self-respect vs. being able to take pleasure in holidays, events, etc. Once we decided what we wanted to see from our behavior when we looked back on it, things got a lot better. Detaching our emotional dependence from our parents (both sets were pretty engulfing) and taking control of our availability to them actually allowed us to enjoy them more.
I’m deferring any final decision for now, have to get through this weekend first. I am heading over to get the car keys and clean out the car, bringing dinner with me. And, bonus plan, I am taking them out to dinner tomorrow at one of the 2 restaurants he behaves at. I would not normally do both nights, but his agreeing to give up the car is a big deal and I want to show them they will still get to go out.
Of course, he has to supervise cleaning out the car, but I would expect nothing less. So much like a toddler, “I can do it, let me do it my way”
My sister said it best today, “the logic ship has sailed”
I do think that unless the Thursday is sacred to you and your family (which it may be, for whatever reason, including football … or your kids’ schedules), that it sounds simpler to do something Thanksgivingy with your parents on Thursday, and then have the REST of your weekend to celebrate as you see fit.
First, it will have more meaning for them (right or wrong, it just will), and second, it won’t be hanging over your subsequent celebrations. You’ll have done your bit (whatever it is) and can relax and make your own traditions once you’ve checked that box.
