<p>“Same with some Asians. You may not have encountered any racial discrimination but others who have,may see it with a different perspective.And I do find your title offensive.”</p>
<p>I can see why you would and I respect your opinion. I also respect that you chose to say so in a way that didn’t involve lying or attacking. As I’ve said twice, I should have chosen a different title for the thread. Based on your thoughtful comments, perhaps I should have left out the Asian part as well, because that wasn’t central to the humor in any way. HOwever, I stand by my statements that (a) no ill intent was held and (b) it only caught my attention because of things I’ve read on CC. I’m happy with the disagreement, but not with some of the behavior here and I think that some of the posters who were offended (not all) should consider some introspection of their own with regard to why this struck a nerve and why they chose to respond in such inappropriate ways.</p>
<p>It is nice to see your view has evolved today (minus your last sentence) because prior to the above your response to people’s mild expressions of distaste with your op was instructing them that they were “overly sensitive,” “hyper-sensitive,” no sense of humor, sanctimonious, etc. etc. etc. </p>
<p>Many of these people were Asian themselves (I am not). Is there a wonder-bread expression for chutzpah?</p>
<p>From post 177: “I am Asian, my d is half Japanese/Franch. I do not find the original post funny, in fact I feel insulted.”</p>
<p>Your reply was: “Then your comprehension is limited…If you’re insulted by that, you have a problem.”</p>
<p>Btw, I did not say people had “pretzel brains” or “pretzels for brains” or whatever. I said “you really have to twist your brain into a pretzel shape to defend this.” That was my opinion, and to me it’s what you have been going here for 361 posts so it’s still my opinion.</p>
<p>Maybe this will help: one can offend without intending to. In that case, the classy thing to do is apologize. No biggy.</p>
<p>“Btw, I did not say people had “pretzel brains” or “pretzels for brains” or whatever. I said “you really have to twist your brain into a pretzel shape to defend this.” That was my opinion, and to me it’s what you have been going here for 361 posts so it’s still my opinion”</p>
<p>And it is my opinion that you were insulting with that since it was directed at me, I don’t buy your current explanation. Another poster took it the same way. Funny how your word is the one that counts on your posts and on mine, while my word is a lie on both, despite the fact that we’ve had no contact before. You were particularly insulting with the “I don’t get” post. That was out there since you don’t know me and it’s a lot to call someone you don’t know a liar. If you read the evolution of the thread, you will see that there was a lot of understanding with disagreement until lies were told and my child was attacked. I notice that you ignored that. But that’s convenient for you, right?</p>
<p>I just went back through the thread and still think there was a genuine exchange of information and opinion up until a few posters got out of hand and I responded in kind. I still think that was a good thing, and since there are a lot of people who agreed with me and chose to share experiences, as well as Asian people who weren’t offended, I still think this was simply a complicated topic. Would I change the wording if I could? Yes. But I think there are some posters here who should be ashamed of themselves. They are entitled to be offended, but I am entitled to think some are overly sensitive.</p>
<p>Well I hope the worst anyone ever says about me is that I’m twisting my brain into a pretzel shape. Rough stuff.</p>
<p>The I don’t get it post was directed at everyone. I don’t get it and I explained why. </p>
<p>I don’t even know what you’re talking about your child and lying which is why I “ignored that.” I don’t read many threads here to begin with, sorry I don’t know your personal history.</p>
<p>Guess you didn’t get my above post either. Oh well I tried!</p>
<p>re your edit: I’m glad to hear you think there was a “genuine exchange of information” but as I tried to explain above, you attempted to minimize/ridicule people’s feelings of discomfort over your post right from the start. Then you went off on a tangent about your hurt feelings. </p>
<p>Why should people be ashamed of themselves when they are simply disagreeing with your view, your sense of humor, or expressing sincere feelings?</p>
<p>"The I don’t get it post was directed at everyone. I don’t get it and I explained why. "</p>
<p>It was directed at me since I’m the one who said repeatedly that I haven’t seen the type of behavior referenced in the stereotype. I believe I’m the only one who said that.</p>
<p>What I got from your last post was the comment about the last sentence. You repeatedly ignore my references to the attack on my kid and lies told in this thread. Which means you approve of that behavior and, that being the case, I’m not so interested in your opinion in a way that I would take you seriously or respectfully. I posted several times that someone took a problem of my daughter’s from a couple of months ago in another thread, brought it back to life here and told me it was because he was teaching me a lesson. Do you find that acceptable?</p>
<p>"re your edit: I’m glad to hear you think there was a “genuine exchange of information” but as I tried to explain above, you attempted to minimize/ridicule people’s feelings of discomfort over your post right from the start. "
That is just not true. As someone is entitled to be offended, I am entitled to think they are overly sensitive. My opinion is equally valid. Re-read the thread without the chip on your shoulder and you might learn something. There was a whole bunch of other stuff in this thread than what you chose to pounce on.</p>
<p>“Right back atcha. See ya around the forum”</p>
<p>No chip. You implied several times that I’m a liar in our very first exchange. Not a great way to get started, although you did step in after the thread had already degenerated. A little introspection on your part, also, would be a good thing. You may have been offended and, had you handled it differently, I would have been sorry and said so.</p>
<p>I’ve already said what I would have liked to do differently and what I’ve learned. How about you?</p>
<p>I don’t want to cause an argument to flare up, but I’d like to return to this from a slightly different angle. As mentioned earlier, I find it genuinely heartening that anyone would rush to sign up for calculus; and across the sciences, there is a very serious need for people with excellent capabilities in mathematics.</p>
<p>This thread reminded me of two circumstances that I encountered with Chinese graduate students, one from the PRC and one from the ROC. I had an older student who joined my research group many years after he had first started as a physics undergraduate in China. (He had started his physics undergraduate program just before the Great Leap Forward.) My student brought his family to the US with him. His son qualified for a special Saturday mathematics program as a middle schooler, and I heard the father comment to the son, “That is like more food for you.” This comment nearly made me cry–it was true, and very deeply felt. </p>
<p>In the second instance, I had a Ph.D. student, with an undergraduate degree in chemistry. She needed to take some additional electricity and magnetism, as background for research. Trying to figure out the level at which she should start, the two of us looked through a typical junior/senior level undergraduate textbook. She actually covered her mouth with her hand to hide a smile, and remarked, “I think that is very easy, because I learned that in high school.”</p>
<p>" didn’t realize it was your way of posting or the highway, but I’m learning"</p>
<p>Where did I say that? Quote please.</p>
<p>You hold me accountable for my posting but won’t be held accountable for yours? Is that what you’re saying? Seems to be on the last few threads. So it’s this: if you don’t like what I post you will insult me and call me a liar. But become outraged if I respond? Hmmmm.</p>
<p>“As mentioned earlier, I find it genuinely heartening that anyone would rush to sign up for calculus; and across the sciences, there is a very serious need for people with excellent capabilities in mathematics.”</p>
<p>It is. And in the early part of this thread, I made very clear that I thought it was great to see people with higher aspirations and a better plan than I had. I also made it clear that I didn’t see what happened as a bad thing. Those were my exact words. You are 100% right that signing kids of for college calculus is an excellent thing and the parents are to be commended. In fact, they were clearly more on the ball than I because my kid chose a different class.</p>
<p>QuantMech: I agree^^ too, and my husband, who is an engineer, agrees even more than I.</p>
<p>z-mom, I’m done with the arguing. I never called you a liar. I don’t know what you are talking about. The main point is getting lost in the scuffle. There is no point in continuing.</p>
<p>Zmom, I did read on. But this is important. Everyone has an ethnicity. I too am European American. As I have said ad nauseum, my great-great-(some number of greats) grandfather signed the Declaration of Independence. So I am American. But I have an ethnicity. There are Native Americans, European Americans, Hispanic Americans, African Americans, Italian Americans, Anglo Americans…etc. I have a race too, Caucasian, that’s different from my ethnicity. Asian as it tends to get used frequently means race more than it means ethnicity. And race, as we all know, is increasingly found to be a pretty fragile concept.</p>
<p>The thing that’s so amazing about America, is in fact that once you are an American you are just as American as anyone else here. At least that’s the way it should be. And each new wave of immigrants augments the meaning of exactly what an American is.</p>
<p>“. I never called you a liar. I don’t know what you are talking about.”</p>
<p>Someday you will go back and re-read your posts in the 290 range. “whatever you say.” That one. The “I don’t get it” post implied that I wasn’t telling the truth. Couple of other places. But you’re right. No point in arguing. You have no interest in anyone’s point of view save your own.</p>
<p>“How is it that intelligent people can think this way? I was always taught not to generalize. You really have to twist your brain into a pretzel shape to defend this.”</p>
<p>I think your above quote is a great example of your recent comment :</p>
<p>“Maybe this will help: one can offend without intending to. In that case, the classy thing to do is apologize. No biggy.”</p>
<p>You may not have intended to offend or insult with your earlier comment but I can assure you that it can and was interpreted as offensive….especially with the sentence --“How is it that intelligent people can think this way?” </p>
<p>There were lots of offensive comments and different opinions thrown around in this post and also many thoughtful opinions. Stereotypes and their usage is an interesting discussion topic and all, including the OP and certainly me, learned how different people interpret different comments. As I mentioned before I am quite offended by some Irish stereotypes….and some are just not offensive to me….are they both stereotypes – absolutely!</p>
<p>An earlier commenter wrote about the movie – “My Big Fat Greek Wedding” I loved this stereotype filled movie. Now I’ve learned that maybe all did not view it with the same fun that I did. I’m not of Greek heritage and now I wonder if people of Greek heritage liked it? I would assume they did but now I’m not so sure. I did not like how the Irish were portrayed in “The Gangs of New York” – which had many historical inaccuracies and exaggerations about the Irish. I will absolutely agree with you that stereotypes can be damaging and hurtful in our society and we all must be careful not to offend and if do offend we need to make it right. Stereotypes are part of our world and it is important to be able share our interpretations and impressions which was accomplished in this discussion. Otherwise we will not really learn much about each other and will continue to ignore the “elephant in the room.” </p>
<p>To QuantMech:</p>
<p>“As mentioned earlier, I find it genuinely heartening that anyone would rush to sign up for calculus; and across the sciences, there is a very serious need for people with excellent capabilities in mathematics.”</p>
<p>I thought the same…hurray for us that American kids are signing up for Calculus classes!!</p>
<p>“The thing that’s so amazing about America, is in fact that once you are an American you are just as American as anyone else here. At least that’s the way it should be. And each new wave of immigrants augments the meaning of exactly what an American is.”</p>
<p>I couldn’t agree more Alumother. Really. Believe it or not, I can think you were initially sensitive, but still respect your right to be and also your opinions and insight. Which I do, very much. I don’t, however, promise that you’ll never be offended. Ilsa is right in that this thread should have died. I acknowledge getting angry, but there was some real ugliness directed at me as well. I respect your disagreement all the more because you didn’t stoop to that level.</p>
<p>“The thing that’s so amazing about America, is in fact that once you are an American you are just as American as anyone else here. At least that’s the way it should be. And each new wave of immigrants augments the meaning of exactly what an American is.” </p>
<p>Alumother, I agree 100%! Now if only that was true! But so often what I see is people defining others in terms of stereotypes.</p>
<p>This thread is very interesting to me. My gf, who is mostly of Asian descent, has had family here for generations. She also happens to be pre-med. When I am with her, I hear comments all the time about how she is pre-med because she’s Asian, as opposed to a genuine love of medicine. These stereotypes range from “complimentary” (“it’s wonderful that your parents encourage learning, especially in science.” Uhh, actually they’re musicians who’d hoped she would be, too) to downright appalling (“you’re great at math because you’re Chinese.” which is insulting and of course she’s actually not even Chinese). </p>
<p>The effect of all this stereotyping is just exhaustion. On a larger level, I think it offends and bothers her. On a day to day level, she’s just tired and wary. As am I. Obviously many people don’t think she’s “American”. I’ve heard so many comments about how she’s shy because she’s Asian to how wonderfully accent-free her English is. Bottom line: Do some people behave according to stereotypes? Probably, though it’s more “apparent” if you’re looking for it. But does it inhibit seeing others as just people like you when stereotypes are reinforced? I heartily believe that it does.</p>
<p>z-mom:I really did not say or imply that you lied. I don’t want to leave on that note. The "I don’t get IT was referencing PEOPLE (not just you) who defend stereotypes. That’s what IT referred to. </p>
<p>We can’t meet minds on this because we have different views about it and have going way back on this thread.</p>
<p>I really don’t know what you want me to say. It’s as if you want me to apologize to you which I think is preposterous since you have potentially offended hundreds of people reading this and yet you do not feel the need to apologize.</p>
<p>Really I believe you did not intend to offend. I never said I thought you did.
I was discussing an IDEA - stereotypes - not YOU.</p>
<p>And for the record, I think you come on very strong, which is why when I finally opened this thread I was prompted to post here (after reading ten days worth of your posts) in the first place.</p>