I’m cracking up, here. CNN has an article about this, that claims the big news is that BJ came out…as a Republican. Apparently in the world of Hollywood, how very brave of him. I mean honestly, who cares? Why is that even news?
Thank you, Consolation! That’s very kind of you. And to answer an earlier question, yes, I’m very happy I did it. (In fact, even though it’s been only a decade, I have a great deal of trouble remembering what it actually felt like to live that other life, in that earlier bodily incarnation. When I think of places I went or things I did more than 10 years ago, I have to consciously remind myself that it wasn’t as Donna, since I instinctively tend to back-project myself as I am now, and certainly never think of myself as having become “a different person.”)
There’s no doubt, though, that the thing about my transition that makes me the happiest is that my son and I (he was 15 when I transitioned) got through it with our closeness intact, and our relationship as strong as it ever was, if not better. It wasn’t necessarily so easy for him to get used to at first, but he always completely accepted that this is who I am and what I needed to do, and I think we both always knew it would turn out like this. Any other outcome – well, it just couldn’t have happened. Inconceivable, given how much we both wanted, and needed, it to go well. And so far as I’m concerned, every bit as much credit for all of this goes to him, and to his love, and caring, and his good heart, as it does to me – for all the credit some people I know have seemed to want to give me for being a good parent. Although I admit that if there’s anything I’ve ever done in my life that I’m genuinely proud of, it’s being his parent; it’s letting him know from the outset that I’m still the same parent I always was, and always will be, every minute of my life. He still calls me “Dad” sometimes in private (mostly he calls me Donna), but that’s OK with me and always has been – it’s not a gendered term for us; it’s simply a name he calls me; a three-letter word that means to me that he loves me and I still belong to him.
And if in all the years I’ve spent as a commenter and moderator on a private trans-related forum I’ve helped even one other transitioning parent to understand that it is possible to get through this with your relationship with your kids intact, and that it is possible to do this even if your kids are teenagers (a famously difficult time to transition) – but that it doesn’t just happen; it takes work; it takes making sure your kids feel that there’s always continuity, and that in every important way they really do still come first – then that makes me happy, too.
We have a student who plans to transition, and it just makes sense for him. Just as I would not have suspected that BJ felt he is in the wrong body, I would not have picked this student out as being anything but the gender he was born with … but knowing him and knowing the struggles he feels within himself, it just seems right that he plans to transition. I hope BJ’s interview helps more people to be accepting of others.
I think, I could be wrong, but didn’t BJ say at the beginning of the interview with Diane Sawyer that he went into the bedroom one day, when he was alone, and thought about suicide? He had to transition. He had no other choice. I’m sure tens of thousands other people face that same choice. By BJ stepping forward, and being so honest and likeable, it will help many other people and the families around them. That is why people don’t step out of the shadows, they are afraid they will lose the support of their family and friends. Well, hopefully, BJ’s bravery will help F&F get it right.
“I think, I could be wrong, but didn’t BJ say at the beginning of the interview with Diane Sawyer that he went into the bedroom one day, when he was alone, and thought about suicide? He had to transition. He had no other choice. I’m sure tens of thousands other people face that same choice.”
I am most certain that people have choices beyond transitioning or killing themselves.
Not everyone has all the options, as far as the ability to spend a huge amount of money, and have the stomach to go through the physical and mental work and pain to transition. If they are unable to do that, I am sure there are other choices beyond killing oneself.
Many people are extremely unhappy about serious aspects of their lives, and manage to find a way to cope, and not commit suicide.
Of course “transition or death” is not always the choice for all trans people, but you have no basis or knowledge whatsoever for being “most certain” that everyone has (or perceives themselves to have) other options. The percentage of trans people who attempt suicide at least once – sometimes because fear and/or circumstances prevent them from transitioning, sometimes because of the societal prejudice they’re subjected to afterwards – is a large multiple (estimated at about 41% based on various surveys) of that for non-trans people. And even for those for whom the choice isn’t between transition or death, it’s often between “transition or be completely miserable and dysphoric for the rest of your life.”
And let’s not exaggerate the “huge expense”; of course surgery is expensive – mine was about $17,000, six years ago – and, historically, not covered by insurance (although that’s beginning to change), but plenty of trans people who aren’t at all wealthy (and some who are extremely poor) transition without ever having surgery, or do so years before being able to afford surgery. Hormones alone are extremely inexpensive, even when not covered by insurance. And despite what some would have people believe, not all trans women have to spend $40,000+ on “facial feminization surgery” in order to be able to blend in with other women (assuming that that even matters to them).
Apart from surgery, I don’t know what you mean by “physical and mental pain and work”; the mental pain and work usually come from not transitioning. Perhaps I was just lazy, but mentally, and for the most part physically, transition itself was the easiest thing in the world for me, and required no “work” at all. (I was lucky, though, that I didn’t have to do any “voice” work; for a lot of trans women, that can be the most difficult thing. In general, though, the people who portray transition as a project equivalent to preparing to climb K2 are, in my opinion, doing so, at least in part, to exploit and make money off the trans community.)
One also has to remember that as the years go by, and societal hostility to trans people decreases, the average age at transition gets lower and lower. I’m sure people who wait until they’re 65 to transition, like Jenner, will always exist, but much less so in the future than historically. I started transitioning. medically and socially, when I was 45, after first considering it (and rejecting it, out of abject fear) when I was 22, and first encountered other real-live trans women. There was no Internet back then, and, really, no resources at all. Had I been born 30 years later, I’m pretty sure that I would have transitioned at a far younger age. But then, of course, I wouldn’t have had my son, and he makes it all worth it.
I should have added that not all trans women even want or need to have genital surgery, regardless of cost. The intensity of both physical and social dysphoria can vary widely.
“Of course “transition or death” is not always the choice for all trans people, but you have no basis or knowledge whatsoever for being “most certain” that everyone has (or perceives themselves to have) other options.”
Actually, I do. Common sense tells me that unless someone is pointing a gun at your head telling you they will otherwise kill your children, or you are insane, you do have the choice not to commit suicide. Someone may decide that is the easiest choice for them, or that they are so depressed they can’t consider anything else, but it certainly is a choice.
“Apart from surgery, I don’t know what you mean by “physical and mental pain and work”; the mental pain and work usually come from not transitioning.”
The perception that I have that transitioning is a tremendous amount of work, both mentally and physically, has come from your posts. That it involved spending large amounts of time with psychotherapists and that it was physically difficult. That it was not easy by any measure whatsoever. Did I misread what you wrote?
Busdriver, it seems that your position that “unless someone is pointing a gun at your head telling you they will otherwise kill your children, or you are insane, you do have the choice not to commit suicide” goes to the nature of suicide in general, and has nothing specifically to do with trans people. Therefore, I would suggest that any further discussion of that issue belongs in another thread, not here.
You certainly didn’t ever read about “spending large amounts of time with psychotherapists” from me; I never even saw a therapist until several years after I transitioned, and only did so for the purpose of getting the “therapist’s letter” that many surgeons require from trans people before going forward, as per the “Standards of Care.” I haven’t been in therapy since 2009, and have not felt the need to do so.
And I specifically excepted surgery from my discussion of physical pain. Of course the aftermath of that was painful, although if you were around here back then (the summer of 2009), you may recall that I had serious complications that almost certainly resulted from my own pre-existing medical issues, not from anything specific to that kind of surgery. I’ve never known or heard of any other trans woman who went through that surgery who had remotely the same difficulties I did, although of course it takes time to recover from any major surgery, even without complications.
“Busdriver, it seems that your position that “unless someone is pointing a gun at your head telling you they will otherwise kill your children, or you are insane, you do have the choice not to commit suicide” goes to the nature of suicide in general, and has nothing specifically to do with trans people”
Agreed. I was disputing the premise that some trans people have as their only options to transition, or kill themselves.
As far as the therapy, I do recall that you said it was in order to get the surgery. But it was my impression that it wasn’t just a short meeting with the therapists, but a lot of work and a pain in the butt. Perhaps I remembered incorrectly, but it sounded like a lot of effort.
The major effort I remember was getting out of work in time to make it downtown for my appointment every week! I found the sessions themselves more boring than anything else, and we rarely discussed anything trans-related – because I had no doubts about what I had done or was planning to do. The point was largely to “prove” to her that I was sane! Mostly I discussed run-of-the-mill parenting issues, issues with my former spouse, and issues I was having with depression following the end of a relationship I’d been in for a few years after my divorce. Again, nothing at all specific to being trans, let alone to any “mental work” necessary, either for transition itself (which I had already accomplished four years earlier) or for having surgery, which was something I very much wanted and never had any second thoughts about either before or afterwards (despite the complications). I’m not saying that there aren’t trans people who do have to go through years of therapy in order to accept themselves, or to resolve one way or the other any doubts they may have about what to do, but I’m a poor example for that.
And, speaking of other trans people, most aren’t nearly as willing as I am to answer questions publicly about such personal things. My own fault for being so open here all those years ago, but true nonetheless.
I don’t think being so open as a negative, but as a positive. In my opinion, you can help educate far more people with zero knowledge of the issues on a site like this, than many other forums. I believe that people appreciate the honesty.
Speaking of trans suicides, see this story about a 23-year old trans woman who just couldn’t cope anymore, and jumped off the GW Bridge last Thursday: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/trans-woman-23-kills-herself-after-being-attacked-online270415
Perhaps she did have choices and options. The problem is that – like many other trans people – that isn’t how she perceived her situation. It breaks my heart. (Trigger warning: one needs a strong stomach to read some of the quoted Internet comments, presumably from other young people, that encouraged her to commit suicide, and then said awful things after she killed herself.)
I can’t read sad stories anymore. Seems to me that they should be able to prosecute people for such evil things, that encourage people to kill themselves. That might stop a few.
From the Washington Post:
Rest of article at link, including pointing out that she also struggled with fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis, and was in constant pain.
Trans issues aside, it’s also disturbing to read the following:
I live very near the GW Bridge and have walked across it several times; the fences as they currently stand are quite low.
The interview was aired the same day a good friend of 30+ years got remarried in “girl mode” as he calls it. I’ll tell ya, it helps deal with other ppl hearing about my friend. Meaning they hear about Jenner, then hear about my friend, and so they are more accepting, you know?
I’m still missing something. What is the important part about saying “I AM A WOMAN” or “I AM A MAN”?
I find it most important to say “I AM A HUMAN”. I just happen to be the variety that gets impregnated and has kids. A side note. Nothing to do with the real me.
So, what would you call me? Would you just say “another heterosexual female”? Or do I have to fit into some sort of category based on what I like to wear, whether I wear makeup, whether I wear dresses, whether I like pink?
It’s simpler for me to respond to “she” and “her” because that’s what society says. But it means nothing to me internally, again, I’m a human. I like French - they have “one” as a pronoun, he, she, and one.
And to me, the interview detracts from the real story - this is a reality TV show star who is a former star athlete. Joe or Jane Public is going to care diddly squat about his story because he is and always has been privileged. Other than in a Star or National Enquirer sort of way 
(oh, and as for “girl mode” - I think that is one of the most honest and best comments about this situation - wear whatever you want and act however you want when you feel like it - don’t get hung up on whether the government makes you check “F” or “M”)
“oh, and as for “girl mode” - I think that is one of the most honest and best comments about this situation - wear whatever you want and act however you want when you feel like it - don’t get hung up on whether the government makes you check “F” or “M”)”
In a perfect world that would be true, but it isn’t. There was a tsimmis the other day, where a woman objected to someone transgender being in the women’s locker room, made a big stink (and to their credit, the health club cancelled the woman’s membership). Not that long ago a transgender woman was arrested for using the women’s room at grand central by MTA cops, despite the fact that city law covers gender identity. NJ only recently allowed driver’s licenses to be changed from let’s say M to F with proof you are transitioning (usually therapist’s letter), before that you needed GRS (change surgery) to be able to do that, which a lot of trans folks either want but can’t afford it or may not want to. So imagine, you are driving, and some small town cop somewhere pulls you over for speeding, you are presenting as a man or woman, and your DL says differently…there are a lot of places that if you get caught presenting as let’s say a woman and you id says differently, and you happened to use a woman’s room, you can end up arrested and in some places end up with a criminal record as a sex offender.
And I get tired of hearing how that for M to F’s it must be about wearing dresses and makeup and heels and such, that it is about the presentation…besides the fact that there are a lot of M to F trans folks who don’t go in for that stuff, are they saying that if you go in for those kinds of things you aren’t a ‘real woman’ but rather must be wanting to play dress up? So does that mean the women I see in my office building, who wear short skirts and heels the height of the empire state building are faking it?
As far as either transitioning or committing suicide, that is a bit simplistic. For some, that literally is true, the number of people with gender dysphoria who commit suicide is not small, put it that way. There are other people who figure out what they are, but because of family obligations or because of their age or whatnot, are able somehow not to transition, for them one outweighed the other and it allowed them some sort of sense of being able to function, but that doesn’t mean that is true for others or that it is necessarily the best path for them, or that they suddenly become ‘cured’, it means they simply have the will to live in a way that inside themselves they know isn’t true. One transwoman wrote something interesting I read a while ago, she said she could have gotten by living her life as man, a somewhat miserable one, but chose the route she felt would give her peace, and that is true for some as well. A geek friend of mine who transitioned said it can be like a classic physics problem, a balance of forces, for some the force to transition is greater than anything else, for others it may not be. In some ways, it is not unlike the many gay people who end up marrying and have kids with an opposite sex partner, there are things that make it tolerable to live that life, but it also probably exacts a cost as well.
And it can be hard to tell, it is why a lot of people go through therapy, to wrestle with things and figure out who they are. Some people know from the time they are very young and move forward, only go through therapy to satisfy the gatekeeping requirements, others take years to work out who they are, get up the courage and strength to figure out what they are, some go that route, then choose not to transition. The key thing is everyone’s experience is different, and saying “well, that person over there is transgender, but stayed living as X” doesn’t mean anything, other than that is what they chose to do, felt they had to do, it doesn’t mean that everyone should do that or can do that or should.
As far as suicide goes, of course it is a choice, when looked at rationally and objectively…as an outsider. The problem with suicide is it is generated by emotions, and emotions are neither rational nor objective, emotions are emotions, and to someone in the thrall of thoughts of suicide it can appear to be the only choice, the rational mind doesn’t control emotions all that well a lot of the time, unless one is Vulcan and not in the 7 year itch. One of the dumbest things to tell someone suicidal is “you have so much to live for”, when to them they obviously don’t feel that way. I am not saying suicide is a good option or one people should be doing, what I am saying that for someone in that position, where the choice is between living in pain and ending it, to them the option to take is obvious.
rumrunner, is your friend a trans woman? Have they transitioned? Because “girl mode” implies a “boy mode,” and I’ve honestly never heard a single one of the hundreds of trans women I’ve known (in person and online) use that phrase. It’s a phrase usually used by crossdressers, many of whom don’t even identify as transgender. (Honestly, I don’t like the phrase anyway, because I prefer to refer to women over 21 as women, not “girls”). And if your friend is a trans woman, and does live as a woman 24/7, why in the world would you be referring to them as “he” in the first place?
rhandco, all I have to say is (1) you may not have an internal gender identity and may feel neutral in that respect, which is fine, but please don’t assume that everyone – trans or non-trans – feels that way; and (2) there’s nothing trivial about gender dysphoria (which often includes severe body dysphoria), and I can assure you that regardless of how privileged economically and otherwise Jenner may have been, there’s no privilege whatsoever in growing up knowing that you’re trans and suffering because of it. As far as misgendering is concerned, are you sure you’d be happy, living and presenting as a woman as you apparently have your entire adult life, if people called you “he” and thought you were a man every time they saw you? I can tell you that even though I transitioned ten years ago, and was living part-time as a woman for a couple of years before that, and I have had thousands of encounters with people since then without ever being perceived (so far as I know) or referred to as anything other than “she,” I still consciously notice it, and it still makes me feel good, when people properly gender me, after so much of my life living in the wrong gender.