Well, I’m glad the expectant mom is “not disappointed,” but that many kids in such close age is certainly a lot. Good luck to the mom and her H in figuring out how to make everything work.
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I think stunned is a perfectly acceptable feeling
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How about a Thesaurus kind of response “stunned, startled, aghast, taken aback, stupefied, confused, shocked, rattled, paralyzed, dazed, bewildered, mixed up, surprised, awed, dumbfounded, nonplussed, flabbergasted, astounded, amazed, confounded, astonished, overwhelmed, horrified, numbed, speechless, and perplexed.” A full range, but we grands are ‘settling down’.
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You should be very happy that you have CC to use all those adjectives. A place to express yourself.
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I spent the afternoon with GD today.
She said that she loved me. I said “I love you to the moon and back.” She said, “maybe you don’t love me to the moon and you love me when you come back.”
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My husband plays volleyball with a guy who has 6 kids I think age 7 and under, One set of twins. He told my husband they were likely not done. They outgrew the minivan and he just bought a larger passenger van. He and his wife both come from large Catholic families.
I think my kids all feel like one or two is enough for them. Costs of raising kids and with both parents working they feel they can’t spread themselves any more than they are.
I know every child is a blessing, but isn’t it expensive to send that many kids to a daycare? Do they get childcare subsidy from their employers? D1 has a nanny for GD1, and the hourly rate will go up once the second one arrives. I just can’t fathom how much it would cost to have 5 kids in daycare. I think even with older ones in school there is still after school care until they are older.
HI is very expensive. Most families I know have 1-2 kids. A few have 3 or 4. Very few have more—it certainly gets expensive with childcare and college, etc.
Another issue, at least here in the urban areas, is lack of housing for bigger families. All new more affordable housing developments seem to have townhomes or condos with 1-2 bedrooms, and close to none with 3. Small landlords with private homes sell their properties because upkeep and taxes become a burden; more skinny townhouses go up in the place of those older houses.
A mom at GD’s daycare just had her third child, and she quit working. She told D that it’s just too expensive to send three to daycare. She plans to start working again when they’re in school.
Many careers cannot stop and start like that - but definitely getting back in before 5 years pass. After that they look at you like you are ‘brain dead’. Maybe the gal’s DH will gain enough earnings and spending gets cut along the way - and some end up managing PT work (but tend to work a lot harder at home and essentially IMHO ‘work harder’ than spouse) - make sure home and kids are taken care of and PT job – AND supportive spouse to DH’s career.
A problem is losing traction in career and never being able to ‘jump back in’ to where they left off.
Due to keeping continuous RN licensing, I was able to do a sunset career using that license (I have two graduate business degrees) - able to work at a certain professional capacity/pay. The benefit I had was to be able to work PRN (so essentially I could plan all the time off I wanted - had to work at least one day in 29 days) - and in skilled care/rehab pretty much could work more than FT hours as well/double 8 hour shifts or 2nd shift and split 3rd shift (daytime person came in mid-shift so working 4 hours of night shift).
DD1 has to stay working FT and keeping her pay level. The benefit she has is generous leave time (4 weeks a year like the military working for the VA hospital).
Many younger couples do a better job co-parenting, but also may have retired parents or helpful other family members to also help with some of the management of raising the children/managing the household. Raising the children takes focusing on their needs and ‘paying attention’, along with ‘family time’.
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I’m not saying that it’s ideal for this mom to leave the work force. Or that everyone can (or should) do it. I’m saying that she felt that the cost of daycare for three was so high that it made more sense for her to stop working temporarily. She’s a lawyer and feels that she can weather a few years away. But the point is that the cost of daycare is one factor that parents consider when deciding how many kids to have. I am not making a blanket statement, though, because I know that there are parents (your D included) who want a big family & will figure out a way to make it work.
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The older two’s private school is a bit less than the daycare. Yes, they pay out that money for childcare, but it works in their budget. SIL has a housing allowance with the Army (so they are not taxed on some of their benefits).
They are fortunate to have a house they are renting which is much more affordable than in many markets - it was newly built 2 years ago and they became renters 1 year ago (because SIL was able to ‘see’ the home 2 hours before the ‘open house’ - he got the paperwork in along with their good credit to be able to rent it before the 10 others that wanted it). Their rent is only a few hundred a month more than what they paid for a generously sized 2 BR 2 1/2 bath townhouse they had in another city/state. 2 car garage, fenced back yard, 3 upstairs BR and 2 upstairs baths plus lower floor half bath and office which could be used as a smaller downstairs BR. Excellent floor plan and good indoor natural lighting in the rooms. Their energy/utility bill is moderate - so pretty well built. I wonder with time if they get another bunk bed - if another girl, bunk beds in the boys’ room and one in the girls’ room (current bunk bed is in the boys’ room). Once the 3-year-old got on the same sleeping schedule as older siblings, moved the two girls together and the two boys together. The BR closets are generous in size, and the upstairs family room/playroom area is generous size for kids toys and sitting. DH had made some screw in the wall upper bookcases that were from our home (for use for their kids’ books/things) that DD1 has used in the townhouse and now in their rent house.
If they are long-term in their city, would look to buy close to their chosen school/church (which is also not far from their daycare). But as with most of the young generation, the down payment and interest rates along with the home they would want to purchase is a current barrier to home purchase. In time, they will get into a home but most likely with down payment help from us (for both of our DDs).
DD1 has contemporary friends in Atlanta area that was using a nanny for their 3 (first child and then twins), but engineering wife (both H and W were engineers) gave up her engineering job within a short time after having the twins to home school and raise the children along with a close friend who was doing the same (W is a OT, Occupational Therapist with 3 children) – but both couples are homeowners already, and purchased their homes before the rise in interest rates and also the rise in home prices.
A number of engineering employers do allow 30 hours/week employment for engineers - but typically one needs to be working FT first and then be able to move to 30 hours/week. I know several women who have taken advantage of that - and they never go back to 40 hours/week after their kids are older either. Also know H and W engineers that both working for NASA 40 hours/week that raised their 3 sons while continuing their careers.
Most law firms are very demanding on work structure/hours and lack of flexibility, and I can totally see having to stop out of the work force in that situation. I know a very highly educated gal that had her first career in nursing (had a master’s), then got a law degree. After marriage and relocation for spouse’s work, had to retake the Bar for NY and did so. She worked for a law firm that was quite demanding even with later PT work arrangement. She then took a lower paying school nursing job which worked out great for her family and for her peace of mind. Her DH was a PhD engineer that left a lot of the child rearing and home responsibilities to her (and his social interaction skills were such that she was the one able to be handling being ‘the flexible one’).
DH and I are ‘more practical’ in some ways than DD1/SIL. They wanted a baby right away and have kept having children, even while SIL was struggling with good career start. Since they are settled in a very good rent situation, now they just need to keep their heads above water with their kids and careers. SIL has traction on his job; DD1 was fortunate she is keeping under the radar on working for a Master’s degree even though she has been in a Master’s preferred job for 5 years – but now with her lateral job move it seems the pressure will be off on that.
We had our two DDs later in life after we were in our 4th owned home which we built (owned homes in two states and 4 cities - were in our first purchased home two months after marriage at age 22 and DH just turned 23). The first two homes we purchased we did not foresee selling/moving. The third one we didn’t plan to stay in as long as we did and ‘broke even’ on sale of that home; first two had company moves and we made money on their sales even with only being in the first home 9 months – in part due to rising home prices and growing markets, and in part due to company paying home sale closing costs.
There are problems with generalities, all job situations are unique to the job itself.
I’m not even sure I understand.
My husband is an engineer, my son is an engineer, his wife my dil is an engineer. And my daughter is an engineer.
I haven’t seen much flexibility in the jobs that all have had.
My daughter for health reasons, petitioned to work 32 hours a week instead of 40. What that really means is that she has the same job tasks and the same responsibilities. Just that she has permission to work from home one day a week. This is a temporary arrangement, I’m not sure it would be approved permanently.
The good news for all of these engineers is that they make enough to pay for childcare. But at present there’s only one child between all of them. God willing there will be another.
Job flexibility is an issue for all professions. Maternity and paternity leave is an important issue.
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I didn’t hear about 30-hour work until working in our city which has a lot of engineering work – and only some companies say something about it being a work option. DH asked for and was approved for 30 hours/week as he approached retirement, but his boss was still shoving him into work which wouldn’t fit - I told DH to work the hours up to the 30 and send an email to his boss (plant manager) what was left to be done each week so he could task it elsewhere, but DH instead chose to retire earlier than we had planned. His boss had a MBA and worked in the industry quite a long time (not as long as DH) but was limited due to not having the engineering background. His boss was not handling the pressures of his job situation well and I am sure it went even worse w/o DH but you can’t treat someone badly and expect them to not find a way to leave. Many years ago when I worked for the same company, this guy was my boss, and he was OK back then, but he wasn’t under the pressure and a bit over his capability at that time.
One can expect some job limitations (salary and other advancement restrictions) but have greater benefits and considered more ‘FT’ than less hours from 30.
DD1 had a MD appointment today and the 1-year-old had a well visit appointment, so she took a day of leave time - and took the time to call me. So it seems that this pregnancy was not planned, it was a surprise. Since they moved July 2023, she has not seen or scheduled with an OB/GYN until now. So she has a new visit appointment (friends’ recommendation for the MD) and will learn how this practice runs. This will be their first baby not in the hospital the others were born at, and so that will also be new. Her last baby delivery was w/o epidural and none of the deliveries had any complications, so hopefully all will be good. DD1 says if she doesn’t have enough rest she has nausea, and mornings she is less productive due to the way she feels. She actually is still working for the same manager (operations director for the hospital), and she already told her about her pregnancy; it turns out the lady is Mormon – and since DD1 gets her work done, is proactive, and not a slacker, things at work will go fine.
DD1 and SIL just have to do a lot more planning on things. DD1 also found out she cannot use her DH’s college benefits with his enlistment (the VA program’s benefit ties her to working for them for a 6-year commitment - the Master’s would take 3 years and have to work 2 years for every year of education) and so she is ‘on hold’ with moving forward on that endeavor. If you don’t meet the whole work commitment after the Master’s, you have to pay 100% of the educational benefit back and I believe also a penalty.
We talked about the kids’ bedroom furnishing options. She has a twin bed that can go into the girls’ room for the gal that will turn 2 next June when the baby will need to crib (using the crib setting down to the floor with the one side open like a day bed right now). The crib and changing table will go into the master BR once the baby arrives. Then go from there.
It’s good that your D’s manager seems empathetic so at least that’s one worry she won’t have. I hope all goes well with her pregnancy and delivery.
Our D’s employer offers excellent benefits, including good PTO. The problem I see is that D is often reluctant to take time off and then hits the limit of hours she can accumulate.
In our grandchildren’s case, I think they’d benefit from their mom cutting her hours to 30 or 32, whatever lets her retain benefits, and dad going back to work at least part time. He jumped at being a SAHD, thinking it would be easy, and was dismayed to realize it can be very demanding work. I see D picking up the slack a lot and she’s always tired. Both of them might be happier with a different arrangement.
D and SiL have neither mortgage nor car payments since we opted to give her the house as a gift years before she married, and we’ve given both money for new cars. We now pay for private school, too.
Pottery Barn has some Greenguard Gold certified children’s furniture, including a daybed with trundle, that might interest you and your D. There’s also a nice wall unit with desk and good storage.
DD1/SIL - they both utilize their PTO and stretch out things to have them enjoy their family as much as they can while keeping everything running.
DD1 told me their children are excited about the coming baby, and she said they actually were asking when they would have another baby - probably mostly the oldest who has really enjoyed having a baby sister.
I see your situation is that your DD/SIL have their roles set - and DD has to keep her career going full steam ahead. SIL has made his choice, and he hasn’t been motivated enough to expand his role. If their roles were switched would you still feel the same way about your suggestion? ‘D picks up the slack and is always tired.’ Maybe family harmony and having things done the way she sees fit has her tired but happy/happier.
Your DD/SIL have their pressing things met - house, cars, children’s private education. How many children do they have?
DD1/SIL have a stable situation, and at ages 30/34, seem to have their careers on track. I just hope things go well with baby #5 and they can keep the train on the rails.
D1’s second baby is an accident. They really thought they were going to just have one. D1 said the husband is going to get a procedure done so it could never happen again. I am of course absolutely thrilled. I think it will be good for GD1 to have a sister. I remember I really enjoyed D2 much more than D1 because I was a lot less nervous and I knew D2 was going to be my last hurrah.
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We were supposed to ALL get together last Saturday but surprise!! Half of everyone is sick.
New rule: make sure we have a family get together the weekend BEFORE school starts!!!
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