This is my first time using college confidential because I truly do not know how to advise my daughter (soph). We really feel she is not at her full potential, and needs to know what areas to focus on, particularly concerning extracurricular activities and volunteering.
She has said that she is interested in neurology as a result of self-research of different science fields.
She has a pretty solid 4.0 UW in both freshmen and sophmore year, with her only honor classes being chemistry, precalculus, and chinese in sophomore year.
Her limited extracurricular activities are basic membership in school clubs, participation in several science competitions/fairs (without awards), tutoring children soroban math, piano, and limited volunteering time in stigmatized neighborhoods.
Her only award is 2nd place in an international soroban competition.
Low, but improvable SAT score of 2030 - 600 in CR, 700 in Math, 730 in Writing. (first time)
Sophomore PSAT score of 225. - 72 in CR, 77 in Math, 76 in Writing
I realize that her stats pale in comparison to many of the other stats posted here on CC, but she is extremely dear to me, and we both realize that she is not being pushed hard enough, but we need to know more specific ways to do so. I hope it is not too late, Help please on what her next steps should be.
First of all, her stats are fine, there is nothing wrong with them. Be careful not to get psyched out reading student stats on this website. There is a lot of really helpful information on this site, but all of the chance me stuff and listing of stats does not seem particularly helpful. I believe it runs the risk of making students and parents believe that their child’s accomplishments are inadequate. Sometimes I wonder how some of these teens can possibly do all that they say they have done, there don’t seem to be enough hours in a day. There has to be a healthy balance.
Based on what I have heard from college admissions counselors, they place a lot more weight on academic performance than on extracurricular activities. One thing I heard once is that “you don’t need to be in school to do activities.” They more interested that the student will succeed in college, handle the workload, and be able to pass the classes. For that, past academic performance is more indicative, and they like to see that students challenge themselves in what courses they are taking, which it seems like your daughter is doing.
I am sure others will weigh in on the importance of extracurricular activities, but if they are not a genuine interest of the student and just tacked on for the sake of tacking them on, that might be obvious to those reading the application. (I have no idea what soroban is and have never heard of it, so that might actually add some interest/uniqueness to her application or essays.)
Now’s a good time to sit with your daughter and talk about her interests/goals. Her 225 PSAT score is excellent. One of her goals might be to prep over the summer for junior year PSAT - if she gets the same score she should easily qualify as NMSF which will set her apart. She’s also got time to bump up the SAT although her current score is not shabby at all. (Many would be thrilled to break 2000). Does your school offer APs? Will she be taking junior and senior year? A reasonable (not overload) strategy of APs makes sense. If your school doesn’t offer, she might consider self-studying for one or two. One thing you should really focus on is her plans for summer between sophomore and junior year. I don’t know where you live geographically or what your financial situation is, but there are plenty of opportunities out there regardless. She should ‘test run’ doing something related to her areas of interest. There are scores of very expensive programs at top universities - they were never in our budget, but we did identify programs that were either free (and hence very competitive) or low-cost where both of our kids really thrived. Not only did they get the experience of going away for a week or two and interacting with smart kids from all over the country, they also got exposure to areas of interest. And of course it all went on the college apps. If you’ve got any local universities nearby, there might also be classes she could take there or commuting programs she could apply for. She might also consider taking one of the free online classes through EdX, Coursera, Udacity, etc. Good luck.
Rather than expending time and energy padding her resume with a laundry list of clubs, activities and volunteering, encourage her to focus on the 2-3 things she cares most about and likewise to invest her time and intellectual energy more deeply in those topics. She’ll get more out of them and bring more to them if she really cares. (Nothing wrong with belonging to school clubs or volunteering, by the way, if she really enjoys it. But if she’s doing it just to put on her application, she is wasting her time. Schools are not looking for students who half-heartedly check all the boxes.) Of course, if she doesn’t know what she’s interested in (which is quite natural for a sophomore), then trying things out is also a good use of her time.
Also, she should make an effort to get to know at least two of her teachers in her junior year since she will need letters of recommendation from them. Ideally these would be teachers in her favorite subjects and she can approach them for advice on how to pursue her specific interests in their areas in more depth. If she’s really interested in neuroscience for example, a bio or chem teacher might be able to suggest some books and talk with her about her interests. She should perhaps be on the look out for opportunities to volunteer somewhere with people who have neurological disorders - a nursing home perhaps or an after school program for students with special needs. If you know a neurologist, she could shadow him or her at the office for a bit this summer in exchange for helping with office work.
Lastly, her scores are excellent for a sophomore and her grades are good too. Her brain is still developing. A little practice for the PSAT would be in order this summer, but more academic pressure isn’t likely to produce better results than she’s already got.
You can not always plan ECs ahead. Something will come up as long as you are involved and do the things you like. One of my kids worked as a helper in a stem summer camp. Nothing of “notice”. However, in the winter he got called and offered an internship in helping the camp people better design the camp, crunch data etc. Pretty cool! Not saying he will get bumped in admissions because of that, but hey it is rather cool. Pretty much all the somehow cool stuff that my kids ended up doing all came “accidentally” from other involvement. Also, the kid need to look out there, take initiative and ask. For example the above job was not advertised but my kid was “desperate” for a summer job and that was a place he would bike from our house.
I hope you realize that a college is not going to take a kid with a 780 over a kid with, say, a 730, just because the firs score is 50 points higher.
I agree with thumper that your daughter is fine and you should not worry (or transmit that worry to her, which is an unnecessary stress). She is doing wonderfully academically (cool that she takes Chinese) and her extracurriculars so far are more than adequate. She does not have to participate in a hodgepodge of activities: quality is better than quantity so to speak.
It really is better not to live for admissions, but instead follow natural interests as they come up. Now is a time for exploration and your daughter does not need to research sciences as yet to pick an area of focus. In fact, neurology is not an undergrad topic: some schools may have neuroscience but most will have psychology and biology. Undergrad years should give a broad education with an area of focus, but not that kind of specialization as yet.
Remember too it is fine to go into college as an undecided.
I know it is hard but try to let things happen. As another poster said, that is how good things often happen. Attempts to control and overplan can actually prevent the kind of openness that leads to true opportunities.
Encourage her and support her, but you cannot push her. She has to push herself. You need to help her find her own way through things that interest her.
Also, she needs a physical activity to be more well rounded.
A PSAT of 225 will probably mean she will be a National Merit Finalist which is really quite an accomplishment in and of itself. Things to think about right now (a) what will your daughter be doing this summer? If she thinks she might be interested in neurology maybe she should try to create a summer intern opportunity - start thinking about it now (b) what classes does she plan on taking next year? A 4.0 GPA is impressive but high GPA is more meaningful if her curriculum is rigorous relative to the top students in her school
Your daughter is doing fine. Her SAT is the highest I got, and that was the 2nd time for me as a senior. Her grades sound great, and her PSAT is phenomenal. Practice with whatever materials come out for next year’s new PSAT and your daughter could very well make NMSF. She will probably only need an SAT score of 1960+ to make NMF (thought she might have to take the new SAT, not sure on that), and if her grades stay high, there should be no problem with her advancing. There are a lot of NMF scholarships, many full ride or more, out there. (Great thing about some of them is, they are automatic - pick a school that gives them that way, get admitted, and she’ll get the scholarship.)
Don’t underestimate her or take CC kids as the norm for success. She sounds like she is doing fine. Does she have any preference on what ranking of school she wants? i.e., is she a HYPSM hopeful, or just wanting a solid college with good merit aid?
You need to read anything on this site with a grain of salt. You get a lot of neurosis here with high stats people freaking out over like 10 particular schools. Schools have different offerings at varying levels of actual challenge and of course, most families only have experience with one school or compare to their own childhood so really, have no true sense of comparison. Don’t get wrapped up in what your child is taking compared to others in other schools. If she’s taking the high level courses available to her, she’s doing well. Lastly, and unfortunately, you also can’t always be sure that what you are hearing is total truth. There are EC’s that can sound really amazing with fantastic titles and connections which in truth, aren’t all that productive or beneficial in real life. It’s easy to embellish.
Your D is doing great. She’s got good grades in quality classes. She’s got nice test scores that will only rise in the next 1.5 years. As to activities, she’s where most sophomores are at this point… participants in clubs. Leadership tends to come in junior and senior year.
“Pushing” isn’t necessarily a good thing. Externally motivated kids can fall apart in college when they don’t have that constant hand on their back. Internally motivated kids who maybe aren’t as prolific in high school can really take-off in college.
She needs to keep doing what she’s doing. She doesn’t need MORE EC’s. The next couple years, she should focus on exploring various aspects of the EC’s she already is involved in. Wouldn’t it be interesting to help organize one of those science fairs? Many do have room for teen involvement on that level. If there is a particular club that interests her, perhaps she’ll try for some leadership position. How many students does she tutor in soroban? Perhaps she could organize a small practice tournament with those kids with an emphasis on fun. Turn it into a sort of club.
She doesn’t need to be pushed. She needs to be inspired and opened to all the different avenues she could be taking that actually interest her.
A sophomore year PSAT score of 225 is fabulous and makes NMF likely next year if she keeps her score up. Obviously on the SAT she’ll want to raise her CR score, but she’s got plenty of time and age and maturity should do a lot. If she likes to read encourage her to read a lot - sci fi, fantasy, romance whatever she likes is fine. Just being a fast reader with a reasonable vocabulary helps so much in that section.
As for her activities - they sound just fine for a sophomore. One or two things done well is all you really need. Each of my kids just built on things they were already doing and took them to a higher level. Older son was a computer guy and he did both volunteer and paid jobs which got more complicated as he got older. My younger son ended up turning a hobby he’d had to keep himself from falling asleep in AP Bio (folding origami) into a little business where he sold origami earrings in a local gallery. It wasn’t really anything he planned ahead of time. It started because he was short of funds and wanted low-cost present for his many female friends.
And really neither of my kids had a clue sophomore year about what sort of colleges they were aiming for. (Well it was pretty obvious for my older one, but not so much for the younger one who ended up with a higher rank and better scores than I had expected from past performance.)
My kid had one (yes, you read that correctly, one) hugely time-consuming EC during HS that lead directly to the career she is now pursuing after college graduation. She loves her job.
Your daughter should be doing things that are interesting to her, and that she enjoys, so that she develops a notion of what she would like to do with her life. You should be figuring out whether or not you can help her pay for her education so that you can direct her toward places that will give her merit-based aid and/or need-based aid. Truly, that is all you need to be fretting about right now.
OP, please listen to what everyone else is telling you. Your D is a stellar student and has many options open to her already, and as everyone has said, that will only improve as she continues through high school. I have a niece who focused only one one major EC and it led not only to her major, but her career, at which she is quite successful! Another niece focused on two, and she combines them in HER job. Please lighten up and stop worrying. With nearly 4,000 colleges, many would be thrilled to have your D attending!
I notice that your daughter is taking honors precalculus this year. So if she plans to apply to colleges that require SAT Subject Tests, and if she feels that a math Subject Test would be a good choice for her, it would be most appropriate for her to take it at the end of this school year (May or June), which means registering soon.
Also, if the honors chemistry course at her school prepares students well for the chemistry Subject Test, she might also want to take that one this spring.
She has a 4.0 UW GPA and she’s “not at her full potential”? How does THAT happen?
Don’t tell me, let me guess. You’re worried that she won’t get into an Ivy League school / MIT / Stanford because any school below that is a waste of time.