<p>“And no, the parents don’t “obviously” want the best for their daughter…if they do, they would care somewhat about her feelings, don’t you think?”</p>
<p>CGM, I’d like to channel Beurah and give you a hug. Thanks for understanding.</p>
<p>“Wellesley has semester and year abroad. Will her parents let her do this? They also have cross registration with MIT, Olin, Brandeis, and Babson. Couldn’t she take advantage of these without her parents knowing”</p>
<p>I honest-to-God don’t know. Which is part of the reason I posted here, because people like you would know these things and I could tell the young lady and perhaps she could create a situation that would be tolerable. She is defeated and possibly depressed and could use good advice because she’s not doing much research or anything much positive right now.</p>
<p>"Zoosermom, what is the mother like…does she do whatever the husband wants? does the dad treat everyone like this?</p>
<p>and does mom in anyway support daughter, or does she give in to dad"</p>
<p>Mom loves her daughter passionately but thinks that the husband is generally right. I’m not sure how to articulate this, but (I’ve known her for 15 years and we are close) she was in her 40s and her husband in his early 50s when the daughter was born. They’ve worked hard (blue collar) to give her everything that they think is appropriate for where they want her to go in life and to save up the money to pay for such a college out of savings. I think she’s just tired, and is pretty far from understanding that her daughter has to make her own path. They are not bad people and they love her very much, but they have placed their own expectations/visions/dreams upon their daughter. The funny thing is that her own dreams aren’t far from theirs, more in the detail than in the important stuff. If the father would only listen (but he won’t) he might find her views not alarming at all.</p>
<p>“She could have quite easily screwed up her Wellesley application to avoid acceptance there. She could have even forgotten to have sent it in.”</p>
<p>Do you really think she had that much control over her applications? I also explained very clearly that she thought the parents and she had an agreement under which Wellesley would be the last resort if she didn’t get in anywhere else, which she was ok with. As far as money, I explained that, too. They saved, sacrificed and worked very hard to put that money away for their daughter. Because of that and being an URM, she did not ever fit in with the other kids at her high school. She didn’t have a car, expensive accessories, trips, summer homes like they did. Her parents focus has been on her education (which is commendable) to the exclusion of everything else.</p>
<p>I missed the post where you actually spelled out the money issue–that they “saved, sacrificed, and worked very hard . . .” Which post was it that you mentioned this? *</p>
<p>Also, I guess I also missed the other post about the “agreement,” and read only this one: “I think she really believed that when the other prestigious acceptances came in her parents would be fine with choosing another college that they had agreed she could apply to . . .”</p>
<p>Either way, I doubt Wellesley will be the end of the world for her. 
Look on the bright side; she will be away from her parents and making a whole new group of friends.</p>
<p>*Oh, I see. You mentioned that in post #63, only after I wrote my first post.</p>
<p>"Either way, I doubt Wellesley will be the end of the world for her. "</p>
<p>You’re still not getting it. I’m more worried about her frame of mind and consequences of THAT than her attending Wellesley. I also posted in my first post that I know that this is not a great tragedy (did you miss that too?), but that I felt badly about this.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I get it. You don’t have to convince everybody. I haven’t read every post but I understand you are not dissing Wellesley. It could have been anywhere. The point is the kid was mentally beaten into submission to attend a school (any school) she didn’t like or want and in fact felt very negative about attending. </p>
<p>“Make lemonade out of lemons” , or the best of a bad situation not of her choosing, or “Wellesley is really great” does not answer all questions in your mind or mine. They are ham-stringing this kid. Clipping her wings. They are binding her like some culture’s bound feet. Why? Not really important, at least not to me.The damage will be done regardless. The parents have overstepped the boundaries IMO . Unfortunately the financial realities of the American system of higher education aid say she’s stuck if she wants to attend anything other than a super cheap state school this year and work and borrow her way through. Or wait till next year and apply to schools where merit and her earnings (if there are any above expenses for her gap year) would make it possible with loans in her name to attend without parental help. (Can the parents be forced to file a fafsa for a student applying for loans in the student’s name? Or is there some “go around” for the kid of obstinate or “nutbar” parents? Hmmmmm. Got to be something in place. This can’t be that uncommon. There are lots of obstinate nuts out there.;))</p>
<p>zoosermom, I think I can understand some of your frustration. My daughter also has a close friend whose parents have basically made their child’s educational decisions for her, sometimes making choices that did not turn out to be in the child’s best interests.</p>
<p>But there isn’t much that we, as people outside the affected families, can do about these situations. If the girl you’re worrying about decides to become financially independent of her parents, you might be able to help her out by cosigning an apartment lease or providing advice on job hunting, but beyond that, isn’t the situation mostly out of your hands?</p>
<p>“Or is there some “go around” for the kid of obstinate or “nutbar” parents? Hmmmmm. Got to be something in place. This can’t be that uncommon. There are lots of obstinate nuts out there.)”</p>
<p>She would have happily attended a state school and taken loans/jobs, but has the idea that it’s too late now for next year. I’m going to sit her down and tell her some of the things that I’ve learned here for the simple objective of giving her hope and options. It’s true, though, that there isn’t a lot more that I can do. But sometimes when we get sucked into our own personal vortices, it’s nice to have someone tell you that you reall can get out.</p>
<p>And for those who think this is not damaging to the psyche, well IMO this is akin to hitting a kid upside the ego with a metal softball bat every time the parents refused to listen. They stripped her of her relevance to her own life. By the time this "binding " is done , there’s a decent chance she’ll be crippled.</p>
<p>^^^She would have happily attended a state school and taken loans/jobs, but has the idea that it’s too late now for next year.</p>
<p>I can’t speak for your locale, but she can go to any number of regional state campuses in Texas starting this September. She can always transfer to a better campus but remember , merit aid sucks for everybody but beginning freshmen (and to a lesser extent JC graduates who make the Honor thing-y, Pi or is it Phi…Kappa…uhhhh…??? …uhhh… whatever. Jeez. I get less competent by the day. At this rate of decline I’ll be down to a series of rythmic grunts and clicks for Christmas. ).</p>
<p>Zoosermom:</p>
<p>Again, I am impressed by your concern for the wellbeing of this young woman. There is not much you can do besides lending a sympathetic ear, and it must be very frustrating.
I doubt that the parents would allow her to take a gap year. She’d have to support herself. Then, if she applied to colleges, even those granting merit aid, I assume the parents would have to file a FAFSA–which means she would need their cooperation. I suspect that she would not qualify for need-based aid, even if she declared independence. While some finaid officers might be flexible toward an applicant with a rich but deadbat dad, I somehow don’t see them beding rules that families must contribute because the applicant does not like to attend an all-women’s college.
So I don’t see your role as providing alternative scenarios to your young friend.
But you are right to focus on her mental state. If you feel inadequate or overwhelmed, is there a possibility that she could get counseling? Is the depression caused solely by her disappointment and her difficult relations with her family or might there be some other factors?<br>
Do you feel that, in time, she might feel less depressed over having to go to Wellesley? Although lots of students turn their attention to college as soon as they hear they’re admitted, others don’t really focus until some time in July or even August. Perhaps, she could just bracket the idea of college for a bit and concentrate on other things, things that could make her feel more cheerful? Just a thought.
Best of luck to her and to you!</p>
<p>There was another thread on CC recently where someone told the following story (and I haven’t read through this whole thread to see if it was recreated here): some really demanding parents turned into tutoring machines at home really early, basically made all the decisions for a girl who went through school and did well and then went to med school always having to do exactly what the parents dictated. Then she met and married a man her parents didn’t approve of. When that marriage eventually failed, she went into depression for a couple of years and then committed suicide. Her parents then set to raising her kids and never saw their complicity in what happened in their daughter’s life.</p>
<p>This is admittedly an extreme story, but there are so many stories of people who have achieved everything their parents could have dreamed for them, but because they didn’t really make their own choices, end up the same way this woman did.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t care if she got into Cambridge/Harvard, whatever. Clearly Wellesley is a first-rate school. That is so beside the point.</p>
<p>The point is people need to make their own paths, beyond a certain point. And sometimes if they can’t, the consequences are unimaginable. But even short of these consequences, living like this she’ll be extremely unhappy, one can with almost complete certainty.</p>
<p>It’s time for her to get a life.</p>
<p>" can’t speak for your locale, but she can go to any number of regional state campuses in Texas starting this September. "</p>
<p>I think she could go to a CUNY school, but housing wouldn’t be possible at this late date. A SUNY school would have been fine with her (and I bet many would have loved to have her), but their dates are already past. Perhaps she really could make the best of WEllesley if she has the idea that there is hope out there.</p>
<p>"Do you feel that, in time, she might feel less depressed over having to go to Wellesley? "</p>
<p>Thank you Marite. I hadn’t thought of the FAFSA thing and I’m not sure how she could get around that. My suspicion (and, obviously, I don’t have a crystal ball to be sure) is that as long as she is at Wellesley it will be like tearing a scab off a boo-boo but I hope that isn’t the case. I bet that her father would go for a study abroad or even summer classes, so it might give her the opportunity to just not come home for a while. I wonder if she would be able to pick her own classes and do stuff at MIT. Might be a good middle ground.</p>
<p>There has to be a way for estranged kids to get by the Fafsa requirement for Stafford unsubsidized loans. I don’t have the time right now to look it up but somebody chime in if they know the answer, please. (And not all , or even most, merit aid schools require Fafsa. )</p>
<p>zoosermom: Well, I missed your earlier points, because you hadn’t actually made them (one of which you did make–but only AFTER my first post). </p>
<p>And, no, I did not miss that you are concerned about her mental state; had you read my earlier post, you might have realized that–while I know full well you are not “dissing Wellesley,” I have a suspicion (simply based on what you have written here) that she may not be all that conflicted about going to Wellesley. Again, to my reading, something doesn’t quite sound right here. Also, I doubt that she’ll be “crippled” for life by this decision–whether she made it, or it was made for her. Perhaps I just have more faith in the human spirit. Again, it’s not like they’re sending her off to a death camp or to Iraq. </p>
<p>As someone else posted, I think the best you can do is support her in going to Wellesley and point out all the positives–and that this will not be the same as the all-girls school she attended for high school. Again, the upside is-- she’s away from the parents for that length of time.</p>
<p>for those that think she should have sabotoged or stood up, if you have been in a household with a bully, and some bullies love their families, you can understand the oppression that a person can be under, and sometimes there are delicate balances in families with fathers who need to be right all the time</p>
<p>and the other dynamic, is the sense that I get that dad just wants an all girl school, safe from boys, and that is not the reason to go to a college</p>
<p>if you are going to an all girl school you should go because you want that single sex education, not because daddy is afraid you will not be a 'good girl"</p>
<p>and yes, wellseley is not the worst thing to happen, but this about more than that, it is about trying to control someone</p>
<p>wellseley is a great school, but its not for anyone, and when choices are taken away because of reasons that don’t make sense, it is really difficult to embrace the “choice” thrust upon you</p>
<p>yes, in the grand scheme of life, this is not the worst thing, however, it didn’t need to be like this</p>
<p>zoosermom: Well, I missed your earlier points, because you hadn’t actually made them</p>
<p>Not quite true. I had made the point about the money earlier and was referring you to the second post that I had just made.</p>
<p>Actually, in an earlier post, you mentioned that they worked hard and saved enough to foot the entire bill at Wellesley; that impressed me (truly), but that post did not say to me that they are “poor” and “blue-collar working class,” as you later pointed out. </p>
<p>Regardless, my feeling is that you should be supporting her, rather than feeding her (possible) depression and estrangement from her family. </p>
<p>If you really want to help her out by not attending Wellesley, though, you might do a search for that article that was written about wild Wellesley girls (Wellesley girls gone wild? Something like that). Someone posted it on CC a while back. You could always send it to the parents anonymously. That ought to do the trick. </p>
<p>Again, though, if she goes there with an open mind (and someone encourages her in that direction, rather than the other), she might actually like the place. If it’s all about “control,” I say-- take Daddy’s hard-earned money (saved just for this purpose, apparently), go to one of the best LAC’s in the country, get educated, and move on.</p>