<p>There are lots of differences in marriage depending on when it occurred. The divorce rate for marriages that occurred in the 1950-1970s is significantly higher than for marriages that occurred in the 1980s-to date. </p>
<p>At the same time, the marriage rate now is at or near an all time low. Seems a larger percentage than ever doubt that marriage works, so they dont marry.</p>
<p>According to bridal industry sources over half of current brides are pregnant when they get married. So, morality is no longer chastity for lots of people.</p>
<p>While fewer people bother to get married, those that do marry tend to get divorced less, but at the same time the percentage of marital infidelity (especially for the women) has risen. So, morality is no longer fidelity for lots of married people.</p>
<p>An argument could be made that for those who are marrying now, marital fidelity is actually a less important issue to a lot of these couples, at least as long as it is done discretely. That said, Elin is in a situation where everyone now knows about Tigers antics.</p>
<p>Question: if Elin believes marriage is for better or worse doesnt she STAY? And, if she wants Tiger to change, doesnt kicking him where it hurts most (his pocketbook) if he continues to wander make sense? Does to me. </p>
<p>And, if Tiger doesnt change and the marriage implodes, Elin and the kids are financially better off. Sounds to me like Elin is to be admired for her actions.</p>
<p>Bullet I’m with you. The women are to blame as well…absolutely. Over the years the women I know who have had affairs with married men always say the same thing to justify themselves and it makes me sick: “If he were happily married he wouldn’t have stepped out on her with me. Its not my fault”. yea, right.</p>
<p>I wish we could post photos here. I just got the funniest email~ a doctored photo of T & his wife called their “holiday photo.” You all would probably appreciate it!</p>
<p>PM me with your email address if you want it for your “sicker” friends/golf fans.</p>
<p>I agree, that is why I said to have the pre-nup changed may have been the only way she can at this time feel he means it when he says it was a mistake.</p>
<p>Also, as a mother, granted he will give child support, but her having money on her own will make the children financially better off. Let’s play this little scenario. Place her in the position of Marla Maples, he gets remarried and has more children with the next wife, her DD will now get less from the DONALD. Now if she had a larger sum, her DD will have a better fiscal standing. It is not only about her finances, but protecting their children.</p>
<p>Does anyone believe that Melania popped out a baby because of only true love and maternal desires. I don’t! I do believe she wanted to be a mother, but dollars for donuts, part of their pre-nup included what she would get if she had a child. Call me cycnical, but that is my belief. I do not believe that of Elin, I think she truly wanted to be a Mom. </p>
<p>IMVHO, I believe that Tiger does love her from the bottom of his soul, I think he just was caught up in his celebrity status, and did not realize the pain it would cause. If he was so arrogant that he thought no sweat off of his back if she found out, he would have never made that phone call. That call to me sounded like a man, who was in fear that the life he wanted was about to disappear. FYI the reason I believe this is because if he said at the end to her “I love you and will call you soon”, that would have played on the airwaves. It wasn’t. In the end, he made it very clear, Elin comes first and you mean very little to me.</p>
<p>Also, we need to remember that even though Tiger has been famous for hat seems like an eternity, he is still very young. He is in his early 30’s, many of his friends from hs or college have yet to be married, let alone the celebrity status. </p>
<p>I will not apologize for saying that they are more to blame. We are all in control of “our actions”. Tiger is at fault, but as I keep saying this mistress has stated she had no problem being the other woman, she had issues that there were other women being the other woman. She could have easily walked away. SHE IS THE ENABLER. He is the one with the problem, like any one with an issue, you don’t leave an alcoholic in a bar, and say well they could have said NO. Is there anyone on this forum who knows for a fact how those relationships began? </p>
<p>As I also stated, there would be h*ll to pay if Bullet did it, but in the end, it also is a lot about me and how I respect my sisters. I would never pee in their cheerios, and I have absolutely no respect for any woman who is so insecure to do that to any other woman. Why is it so hard to get that? I blame Tiger for straying, I blame the women for not being secure enough to say I won’t do unto others that I wouldn’t want done to me. I do find it amazing that women would defend them for their actions.</p>
<p>I think it is very likely that Tiger loves her as much as he can love anyone besides Tiger.</p>
<p>So, in this equation where the women in question, who make no bones about being party girls–this is their career–are as responsible for Tiger’s infidelity as he is? I find that hillarious.</p>
<p>So, you’re saying that if I am approached by several single young men and I choose to take them up on thier offer, that they are equally responsible for my cheating as I am? I don’t think so. I stood there. I made the promises. </p>
<p>Marriage is between two people. The promises are made to each other. </p>
<p>People do cheat. Some people put their marriage back together, for varying reasons. Given the amount of infidelity out there? I think a lot of people put thier marriages back together. But, I don’t think anyone outside the marriage is responsible for that relationship except the people in that relationship.</p>
<p>The marriage that Elin and Tiger shared was pretty much a farce. From the sound of it, he was never faithful (at least one woman claims to have had a 31-month affair with him, about half the time of his nascent marriage). </p>
<p>This is not a 25 or 30-year marriage with the level of investment that goes along with that. </p>
<p>I would think that Elin would need to go back and reevaluate the “love” they shared and exactly what it meant to Tiger, even from the beginning. It looks to me like he may have married her to have a pretty showpiece wife and the image of a squeaky clean family. Good cover for his whoring.</p>
<p>Is Elin admirable? Well, it depends upon what you admire. She obviously has some good attorneys and is a fairly shrewd businesswoman (the “business” of prenups), but I do not find it admirable in the least to stay with a serial philanderer who cheated in the very first years of a marriage, before thing even got “old” or “tough.” </p>
<p>Luckily, neither Elin nor the world in general cares what I think of her selling herself out for money. If I were the one going through this, I’d take the smaller money and get out…I would never trust this man again, ever, and I’d feel that I was selling myself for money. That would not be acceptable to me, and I could never put on a smile and appear with him in public again, pretending that we were a happy family. The emotional cost would be too high, even for that money.</p>
<p>“Also, as a mother, granted he will give child support, but her having money on her own will make the children financially better off.”</p>
<p>True. In addition, for all we know, Tiger may be such a narcissist in need of a showpiece wife and kids that he may be threatening to use his big bucks to fight for custody unless his wife stays so he can try to restore his image of being a good family man. </p>
<p>Flying women around the world so he could have hook-ups while his wife was pregnant or recently pregnant indicates he’s an accomplished liar and is focused mainly on his own needs and wants. He may be using the kids to threaten her, something that wealthy, selfish men have been known to do.</p>
<p>If she really did go ballistic and hit him with a golf club, if he talks, she’ll go to jail according to Florida law, so he may be using that to bully her, too, into staying with him.</p>
<p>Based on his philandering, Tiger doesn’t seem like a nice guy to me, so nothing would surprise me. He may be a very cold, calculating person as is the case for many narcissists, who may be able to put on believable acts that they care about other people. Unfortunately, really nice people can fall in love with narcissists and not realize what kind of person they are involved with.</p>
<p>In the equation of “for better or worse” in the marriage vows, this definitely qualifies as “worse”.</p>
<p>From personal experience while In college, I had a boyfriend who cheated with one of my dearest friends. I blamed him a lot - but even more so, her, because she knew how I felt about the guy. We had only recently started dating, but I think I was more hurt about her indiscretion, than his…at that point.</p>
<p>Had the infidelity happened after a marriage, I would have blamed him, more, because he made the commitment to me, not her. </p>
<p>The women are suckers if they think that a married man who cheats with them, won’t do that same damn thing if they leave their marriages for them, IMO.</p>
<p>"Can you imagine when he goes to the Masters next yr and how the crowd will react? "</p>
<p>This makes me want to get a ticket just so I could boo him and shout “Cheater, liar, slimeball, etc.”</p>
<p>Perhaps in solidarity with Elin we should boycott the companies that sponsor Tiger. I already regret buying the hubby his Wii Tiger Woods golf game. Just his name makes me feel rather sick. I actually thought he was a stand up kind of guy - silly me. Now he is at best a joke.</p>
<p>^^There are many people who stay in loveless, dysfunctional marriages for a wide variety of reasons. Each person must decide for himself what he is willing to tolerate. Often, love has very, very little to do with marriage. Put simply, I do not believe that everyone who stays does so for love.</p>
<p>""Can you imagine when he goes to the Masters next yr and how the crowd will react? “”</p>
<p>I’d love to see someone start a group for wives who have been cheated on. It could be called, “Tigress’ Revenge Club,” and they could stand outside tournaments where Tiger is playing, and they could wave golf clubs and hold baby doll. It would get a lot of publicity, and I bet Tiger would lose endorsements.</p>
<p>reverse it, you approach them and they know you are married, so are you saying they are innocent? If everyone said NO, that you would not eventually have a lightbulb moment and say I guess this is wrong? Would you say that they openly accept the fact that they are nothing more than a sex object, since they are willing to just be the “other man”. If that is the case it means that they enabled him to cheat. </p>
<p>Morally he is an arse, but so are they for assisting him.</p>
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<p>My Mom is a huge golf fanatic, even bought her newest home on the course to watch the golfers. She has taken vacations with us to golf at St Andrews and watch the PGA Open at Pinehurst. Her email to me yesterday was disgust with him, and if he played in her home state, I am sure she would not throw snide looks at spectators if they boo’d him…she wouldn’t boo, but I can guarantee you he would not be the one that she follows on the course.</p>
<p>She also made a great point, people expect this from football, basketball, and baseball players, golf is held in a different league. Let’s be honest look at the gallery, it is not filled with young, single, female groupies. I think that was the shocker.</p>
<p>“The women are suckers if they think that a married man who cheats with them, won’t do that same damn thing if they leave their marriages for them, IMO.”</p>
<p>I thoroughly agree, which is why I have never had a romantic relationship with a cheater.</p>
<p>I have always said to our DD any man who asks you to cheat with them IMHO is saying to you that you are replaceable and has no respect for you. I have also said to her if he cheats on her with you, what makes you think you are so special that he won’t do the same to you?</p>
<p>Which brings me back to if women would hold that belief, there would be a lot less affairs occurring. I love our DD, but I know our relationship would be damaged if she was ever the “other woman”. It would be very hard for me to accept that she placed herself in that situation.</p>
<p>That being said, I want to take a poll of those CCers who have DD’s…what would be your reaction if you found out that your DD was the mistress? Would you just wrap your arms around them, or would you say what the F were you thinking?</p>
<p>Until you do, and the alcoholic can and does say NO, there has been no progress on the part of either one. You don’t really trust the alcoholic and the alcoholic hasn’t made his commitment to sobriety. My office is less than 100 yards from one (of many) liquor stores I kept in business as an alcoholic. I drive by it each day with money in my pocket. My wife occassionally will ask me to stop into that store and pick up some liquor for her and/or guests. </p>
<p>I trust me (26 years, next Monday) and she trusts me (now).</p>
<p>The cheating is ALL about Tiger, not these women, IMO.</p>
<p>Second that. Definitely, “What the f are you thinking???”</p>
<p>I do know women who are now married to the men they cheated with. The ones I know are constantly spying on their men, too, because they don’t trust them - never completely, because they know their tricks. </p>
<p>I would be surprised if my DD ever fell for this. But then, she grew up in a house with men - two brothers, a dad, a grandpa - who all have told her that men think with one thing. And it certainly isn’t always their cranium!</p>
<p>I see your point that it is all about Tiger and his desires.</p>
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<p>I will also state that if our boys did that, I too would have no problem hitting them with a 3 Iron. I would be very disappointed in them for doing this to their family (I mean his wife and children). Honestly, I would be embarrassed that we raised them in a way that they were morally corrupt. I would be apologizing to their wives, feeling that we as parents were failures. I take great pride that Bullet and I have made it, we have had hard times like everyone else on this board, but I would hope that our children saw we closed ranks and fought for each other. When our children were younger, I would say to them, your father always comes first (Bullet places me first too), without the two of us, then the family is fractured. Off topic, but I recall 7 yrs ago when my BIL/SIL came to visit with their children, we were all in our car when our niece commented to our son on the fact that we were holding hands as Bullet drove. Our DS thought she had 3 heads on her shoulder because that is typical for us to this day. He later came to me and gave me a hug. I said what was that for? Because you and Dad always put your marriage first. He got the fact that our love was the bind that kept us. He understood that we loved all of them, but Bullet and I needed each other. It was a moment that I knew when he said “I DO” he was going to do so with no doubts. FWIW, My BIL/SIL divorced 2 yrs later. </p>
<p>kids turn into adults, adults turn into spouses, your marriage will effect them. I am not someone who believes in staying for the kids. I am not someone who believes that divorce is wrong. I am someone who believes that as parents our actions have a lasting impact in how they view marriage. Tiger’s Dads actions might be reason he thought it was A - OK</p>