<p>This thread has gotton so long that the conversations are repeating themselves. As was mentioned earlier, the urge to (warning: moderately gross turn of a phrase upcoming…) “sow one’s seed” by males of species, and dominance by Alpha males, can and for the mostpart is, tempered in the human race by the fact that most humans are moral beings with the ability to control impulses and think and/or care about the impact of their behavior on others, especially those who they supposedly care about. </p>
<p>As for Tiger’s narcissism, agreed that he seems to have a grandiose sense of self importance, a sense of specialness and entitlement with arrogant, haughty, exploitative behaviors and seems to lack empathy. He has reportedly had childish temper tantrums when he doesn’t get his way or is mad at himself for a bad shot. But I suspect the demands to stay in a private house rather than in a hotel when on the circuit had more to do with the need to keep his exploits and lifestyle secret than needing to be a non-conformist who wanted to have this special treeatment. Hotels come with bellhops and desk staff and cleaning people and room service and ancillary hotel employees, as well as customers in nearby suites who can see/hear whats going on. Too many eyes and ears for this kind of behavior.</p>
<p>Glad, too, to see that poor Elin is no longer being seen as an “opportunist” who should have sen this coming. I feel really bad for her and her family. She and her kids did not deserve this.</p>
<p>Women can choose not to believe it, but Mr Payne is basically right. Men don’t have to be sexually promiscuous…we can survive without being sexually promiscuous…but that doesn’t change our basic drives. We think about sex a lot, and not just with our spouses. But, as I said before, those who can’t control the urge shouldn’t get married. When you get married, you promise to control those urges. That doesn’t change the fact that the concept of marriage is a lot more in-tune with women’s drives than with men’s.</p>
Umm, what’s “classy” about it? It’s the truth.</p>
<p>
No, obviously not. But, would men get married if they had the power to sleep with as many women as possible (I suspect Tiger did it just so he could have some kids)? I doubt it. That’s why harems existed. Because men with absolute power could do whatever they wanted.</p>
<p>And really, all men know what I say to be true. It’s not revelatory to any guy.</p>
<p>Yeah, let’s all blame the victim. He didn’t put a gun to any of these women’s heads. They were clearly up for a little action. What’s he supposed to say? “No”?</p>
<p>Mr. Payne and Schmaltz–go ahead and fess’ up–if, it wasn’t for the law all men would add mom, sis and their daughters to their scorecard, right? Specially, if they were willin’, wink, wink, right? How’s a fella to say no!?!?!?! </p>
<p>After all, we’re MEN! And, everybody knows that a real woman wants a REAL man , not some “feelings” driven whimp.</p>
<p>As a married man who made a commitment to his wife, yes, he is supposed to say “no”, no matter the temptation.</p>
<p>By the way, since I believe you are male, please understand that many married women are approached by men who are clearly up for a little action. If you are a married man, do you expect your wife to resist such advances due to her commitment to you?</p>
<p>Oh, I don’t know, how about something like this:</p>
<p>“Hey, you’re a beautiful woman, and if I hadn’t made a pretty clear promise to the woman I love and the mother of my children, I’d probably take you up on it. As it is, however, I’m going to have to pass.”</p>
<p>Oh, this thread is moving in an interesting direction…NOT.
Honestly, here we have guys posting about harems and the natural order of things.
How do you explain the fact that, of those diagnosed as “sex addicts”, 30 to 40% are women? Hey, maybe some of those Tiger mistresses are too. I feel like we’ve gone back to the dark ages here, talking about how guys are biologically programmed to sleep with as many ladies as possible, while ladies are presumably just doing it to please their masters. Give me a break. It’s a nice macho way to think about these things, but IMO, it’s just not true.</p>
<p>I don’t think that anyone on this thread expressed the idea that Elin “deserved” this. No one deserves to be lied to, cheated on, and put at risk for STDs.</p>
<p>I do, however, stand by the notion (as do many of the columnists I’ve read) that this type of behavior is far, far from uncommon among famous, rich, groupie-laden, highly entitled professional athletes. Anyone, including Elin, could read the news and get an idea of the track record for these people who receive constant adulation from adoring fan bases.</p>
<p>Thinking that Elin may have known she was taking a risk with this choice of mate and thinking that she “deserved” this are two different things entirely.</p>
<p>Whereas I do admire her if indeed she leaves the entitled idiot, I also recognize that she has many, many resources at her disposal that the average woman who has been shamed and humiliated by her cheating husband does not have. Some women are forced to stay with their partners because they do not have the money (or the emotional support) to leave. The normal, everyday woman who is dealing with a narcissistic spouse has much less recourse than Elin Woods, who has plenty of money, a sister who’s a corporate attorney, and supportive parents (and even another country to disappear to). </p>
<p>I feel badly for Elin, but not any more badly (and maybe a little less badly) for her than I do for the “average” woman who is cheated on or who comes to find out that her husband has been leading a double life and has another whole family hiding in the woodwork. Elin has many options. Other women might not. </p>
<p>I am glad that she is leaving. I think it is a very healthy move for both her and her children.</p>
<p>Mr. Payne, Mantori, schmaltz (though I include schmaltz just because I find his posts on this topic funny),
To paraphrase Jimmy Carter’s thinking-- feel free to lust in your heart, but keep it in our pants,. Maybe that is why humans wear clothes- gives men the opportunity to stop and think before they act while they are unzipping or pulling down… well, you get the picture.</p>
<p>It might have been a “sham” from his point of view, but we don’t know that it was a sham for Elin. She may have really loved this guy and naively believed that their relationship was strong enough to withstand temptation.</p>
<p>Also, cheaters will often say stuff like this to put their mistresses as ease. How many times have you heard the tired old story cheating men try to sell to potential conquests about how their wives are shrews, their married lives are miserable, etc., when in fact their wives are loving, giving, and committed to their families. These lies are told to make the potential mistress feel that his behavior is more justified and that THEY are not contributing to anything shady. In fact, they are saving the poor wronged guy.</p>
Don’t tell me jym…You also think the sixth grade boys who make hand-in-armpit noises are just a riot too. I mean, that type of humor is on the exact same level of sophistication as Schmaltz’s. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>And “deserve” was along the lines of the way B&P used the term in post #424. Reading all the above posts about the “biological urges” that are so tough to control, any woman getting married better be going in with their eyes open, knowing the risk that they are taking when they marry, especially if the guy is a smoothe operator. Sounds like Tiger sold a lot of bunk to a lot of women, and they wanted to believe it. Naive, maybe, but most women don’t go into a marriage with the expectation that their h will be a philandering a-hole not if, but when.</p>
<p>Earlier upthread, Elin was getting slammed when it was hypothesized she might stick around for the money she might need to fight Tiger and his lawyers, and to provide well for her family. It was hypothesized that she came from a lower or middle class family, which apparently is not the case. This thing will continue to play out. Sadly, it will continue to play out in the media. I hope her exit strategy is smoothe and airtight.</p>