You just can’t take someone’s life by turning a blind eye to dangerous drivers.
Never claimed I’d ignore the issue and turn a blind eye. Just don’t see how playing that lying game would work on someone who still is mentally aware. If they are senile, it is well, well past the point of when they should have stopped driving anyway.
@CIEE83 ; @surfcity - “I don’t want to be the bad guy” was only the tip of the incompetence iceberg of my parents’ 35+ relationship with their PCP. My DB has referred to this physician as “Dr. Death” for decades due to his complete and utter ineptitude. Believe me, I could write a book. Fortunately, my out-of-state SisIL (OT) anonymously reported DF to the state to have his license revoked. DF chose not to pursue the evaluation required to re-instate his license (he would have failed anyway). To add to our challenge, my DM was still driving, so had to be diligent about keeping her car keys hidden at all times, as DD’s dementia interfered with his understanding that he was not allowed to drive. DM eventually had to wear her key around her neck on a lanyard to keep it away from him. He now resides in a MCF.
OP - The AAA site provides suggestions for dealing with unsafe elderly drivers.
http://questions-seniordriving.aaa.com/conversations-with-family/medical-advisory-board-assessment/
“Depending on where you live, the Medical Advisory Board (MAB) can help. MAB’s are a panel of licensed doctors appointed by the state to review medical documentation relating to an individual’s ability to drive. MAB evaluates all medical information concerning an individual’s medical condition and provides the Department of Public Safety or the DMV with a recommendation on driver licensing. From here, the license could be revoked if an individual is found to be medically incapable of safely operating a motor vehicle.
…
An individual may submit, in writing, their concerns of drivers who may have a medical condition that could affect their ability to safely operate a motor vehicle. All written concerns may be submitted anonymously. Verbal notification is not sufficient evidence for them to take action. Please provide a detailed explanation as to why it is unsafe for the individual reported to operate a motor vehicle. Avoid personalizing information in the written statement and focus on the facts. You will be able to locate this information on your state’s DMV webpage.”
You can file a report to your state’s DMV when you think someone should have their driver’s license taken away. A doctor can file a report too. They will investigate and that should take this struggle away from the family. Hopefully, there is time to do that before someone is hurt.
“GloriaVaughn: Yes it does work. He had her permission and keys to get the car fixed. His siblings knew he was taking the car. Heck I knew he took the car. He didn’t change the title on the car until after she passed. Sometimes the elderly act like infants or more like 2 year olds.”
This is not my experience and it is actually demeaning to make a statement like this. I have no problem taking advantage of a scenario that presents itself, such as removing keys when I was a caregiver, for safety reasons. They were just not found, and after awhile, no inquiries were made. It didn’t really matter, but you always save face of the person who can’t drive. I would never infantilize an older person or suggest “they” are like 2 year olds. I actually got rid of one caregiver for talking like this during my stint (I needed help because I also had toddlers at the time - a disadvantage in being an old mom, I guess).
“TranquilMind I would never infantilize an older person or suggest “they” are like 2 year olds.”
When they are not mature enough to stop driving, then yes, they are acting like a stubborn 2 year old. I would much rather do that than have them get into an accident and cripple or kill someone and then be sued and lose everything. It’s better to lose the car than to lose everything. It is also possible that if you are the caregiver and fail to take away the keys, that you can be sued for elder abuse because you allowed them to continue driving when you knew that they were no longer a safe driver.
While I think it’s acceptable to take away the keys of an impaired driver if nothing else works, as @doschicos pointed out, action should really be taken they’re truly dangerous. I think it’s best to start with a rational conversation pointing out the ways in which the elder is no longer the safe driver they once were, but I can understand why someone might be resistant to the loss of freedom giving up the keys brings. That’s why I think it’s essential to at the same time present them with a plan that allows them to maintain their dignity and at least a modicum of freedom. Outings with a relative they enjoy spending time with, the local senior transportation bus, or a private driver who can take them places, are all good ideas. I also think that tricking someone who is not suffering from senility isn’t very nice. I certainly wouldn’t want my kids to treat me that way.
You can get the DMV or whatever the authority is in your state to revoke driving privileges, but that isn’t always enough. FIL was under doctor’s orders not to drive after his stroke, but he drove anyway, and nothing short of taking away the keys was effective at getting him to stop. He did not recognize anyone’s authority to tell him he had to stop doing something he’d been doing for 70 years. He never stopped being angry about it, but he never killed anybody on the road either, so there’s that.
"GloriaVaughn: When they are not mature enough to stop driving, then yes, they are acting like a stubborn 2 year old. I would much rather do that than have them get into an accident and cripple or kill someone and then be sued and lose everything. It’s better to lose the car than to lose everything. It is also possible that if you are the caregiver and fail to take away the keys, that you can be sued for elder abuse because you allowed them to continue driving when you knew that they were no longer a safe driver. ’
Then use reason. They are not children and do not return to being children by virtue of aging. That’s just so ageist and demeaning, an interesting view to see on a board with lots of educated individuals.
No, you will not be sued for elder abuse, unless you are abusing an elderly person.
If you have to make something happen for a parent’s safety or the safety of others, you do it. You take away the keys, only if you cannot persuade the person with reason or doctor input, but you have to be close enough to make that judgment call.
Some kids just swoop in from afar, having not really had that relationship, and take over. You’ve got to get mom or dad to work with you, not work against them. They deserve our honor and respect, not infantilization. In ten seconds, that’s going to be you. Treat them the way you want your kids to work with you.
Been there, done that.
I wish I could have sued the family of the elderly person who hit my father (apologies for constantly referring to this incident but it’s impossible to get over). And if the elder isn’t responding to reason and logic, then you do what you have to do. I don’t think that’s infantilization.
“Tranquimind:
No, you will not be sued for elder abuse, unless you are abusing an elderly person.”
The law is what the judge says it is. Allowing an elderly person who isn’t a safe driver to continue to drive, may be interpreted as a form of abuse if there is an accident.
“Then use reason. They are not children and do not return to being children by virtue of aging. That’s just so ageist and demeaning, an interesting view to see on a board with lots of educated individuals.”
Obviously you have never dealt with an elderly person who cannot be reasoned with. You do what you need to do. Even if a doc is willing to report them to the DMV, it can take months for the DMV to do anything. People drive with a revoked license all the time, and not just the elderly. As long as they still have the keys, they will still drive.
My mother was a slow and cautious driver near the end but really she shouldn’t have been on the road. She did only drive during the day in familiar areas. The DMV was about four blocks from her condo and she drove those roads regularly. I think they gave her three chances to pass her last regular driving test - my brother and I were disappointed.
But when she ran her car into the drive through ATM machine at the bank - they brought her in for another test. This time she failed because, as she said, “Who comes to a complete stop at a right turn on red?” Um, I do, Mom. I think she was actually relieved to fail though. She did have in home help for several hours a day and they could drive her, plus there was a senior taxi service in her town for $1 a ride, I believe. And my brother lived 5 minutes away. And she learned to order groceries from Peapod.
You mean that the at-fault driver’s (who hit your father) doctor got that driver’s license revoked?
@ucbalumnus Sorry for being unclear. I was responding to the concept of a doctor doing his/her duty and taking away a license when warranted. In this case, my dad’s brain injury made him unable to drive safely, so HIS doctor wrote to the state and dad got a letter telling him his license was revoked.
As a side note - I did everything in my power to get the elderly driver’s license revoked, but I am not sure if it ever was.
@surfcity I don’t know that it’s a doctor’s duty to take the keys away. When we were going through this with Dad, none of his doctors wanted to be the bad guy any more than we did. It may vary from state to state as to whether MDs have a duty or not.
Hi @partyof5. I can’t tell from recent posts whether this has been resolved or not. I did want to throw in my 2 cents. Yes, the senior’s feelings/needs/resources should be addressed, but they should not be determinative. The ONLY relevant question is this: Are they dangerous? The signs can be subtle, but there seems to be an accumulation of signs in her case. The refusal to wear hearing aids, the repeated locking of the keys in the (running?!) car, and especially the insistence that your mom was driving the wrong way when she wasn’t – these all add up to someone who IMO shouldn’t be driving.
Someone upthread mentioned a good test: If the rest of the family won’t drive with the senior, that’s an acknowledgment that they aren’t safe. Sending them out on the road anyway endangers others, and it’s irresponsible to continue to let them drive. Safety trumps hurt feelings.
As with many other things during this transition of parenting the parents, the wisest best course may make the senior really really REALLY unhappy. That’s not a reason not to do it.
This is the thought that kept me determined to do this very hard thing: “What if my D were killed by an elderly driver whose family knew he shouldn’t drive? Do I want to be THAT person? How could I possibly live with myself?”
Good luck.
@LasMa I’ve been trying to let my mom handle it. She has been talking to my grandma , but it’s always “I don’t go far” or “ I don’t drive much” which she doesn’t but that’s not the point. I’m with you, aside from all the other signs , the fact that she told my mom she was going the wrong way was a huge flag for me. I’ve been busy with family stuff so I havent pressed the issue yet. We are having a huge family reunion in a couple of weeks and I will see her. I plan to broach the subject.
My mom did tell me she lost one of her hearing aids last week. She will not replace it. She holds on to her money for dear life even though she could easily afford to buy another one. Sigh…
Of course NO ONE wants to be the bad guy. But the doctor is less emotionally involved and has a duty to his patient and society to not put him/them in harm’s way IMHO.
I found this piece that quotes the AMA: For drivers at marked risk for an MVA, and who persist driving despite counseling, physicians should be ethically obligated to notify DMV, so long as this disclosure results in meaningful action by the authorities. This disclosure, if made in good faith, and after substantial patient counseling, should be immune from legal liability. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1495589/
That was me who suggested that test. And THANK YOU for asking yourself that question. Every day I wish I could make the at-fault driver’s family come and see how my father is living out his last days, due to their family member’s recklessness.
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/signs-elder-unsafe-driver-153264.htm
There’s some ammo for your mom, partyof5.
ETA – Here was the thought that kept my brother determined to take the keys away: “We never want to be in the position of asking ourselves, ‘Why in God’s name didn’t we do something when we first knew this was a problem?’” Same idea of being aware that reluctance to upset the senior could have catastrophic consequences.
surfcity, Thanks for that info. I agree that doctors should have a duty to notify, and I’m glad that’s now be strongly encouraged. Hopefully things are changing in the 10 years since we had to deal with this.
@surfcity - was the driver who injured your father sued?
I have wondered if the possibility of being sued for injuring or killing someone will be a deterrent to my in-laws when the time comes. They are adamant that they want to age in place. That does not come cheaply. They do have the financial resources to do that if they choose, but that would not be the case if one of them were to cause an automobile accident, and they were succesfully sued for all that they have.
Is it worth the risk of becoming a ward of the state?
Edit - I am not undermining the key issue of the danger of causing harm to others. Just wondering if the different tack of the threat of losing all of one’s money might do the trick for some (if applicable).
@Hoggirl Our lawyer did some research and determined that the driver did not have many assets, so we pursued a claim against my parents underinsured auto policy.
Bottom line: Better to be hit by a rich driver than a poor driver. And ALWAYS purchase uninsured and underinsured coverage.