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<p>Just want to correct this bit of misinformation. The Ivy League does not give merit money. Being an NMF can indeed be very valuable but not at schools that do not give merit aid.</p>
<p>mommalis, That it wonderful, truly. I could not help but smile a bit because I have an Aunt who married into my family with a very, very similar story including the success but she went to…Purdue. </p>
<p>I’ve truly come to believe that it’s what the student brings that makes the difference, in college and beyond.</p>
<p>My DD was lucky enough to be accepted at H, Y and Dartmouth of the ivies We are lower income so the financial aid package is amazing. But, she is seriously considering an Honors program at another school with a full ride. Someone told me to encourage your student to go where they are treasured not just tolerated. I don’t mean to discount that the Ivies aren’t amazing schools and don’t offer great opportunities. But my tippy top kid is probably looking elsewhere to a school that has the major she has now decided on, warm weather and a better fit in her eyes. She is looking for the small mentoring opportunities offered at a private college honors program. My husband’s heart doc went to H for undergrad and he told us “It makes interesting cocktail table conversation for about 10 minutes” and then what you’ve done with the rest of your life is what matters. My neice went to a third tier undergrad and then U Penn for law school. She is doing extremely well in her career three years out of school with a top internation law firm.</p>
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<p>It’s a proven concept that every one perform better with better resources, peer group and challenging tasks in K-12, college and beyond.</p>
<p>The cohort at exec MBA’s, the core group of fortune 500 R&D, all based on that proven concept. Your enlightenment won’t change the facts.</p>
<p>Does your DS need to go to a top school to succeed? NO.</p>
<p>But will your DS be better off going to a top school? YES.</p>
<p>Does it make sense to take loans to achieve that? MAYBE.</p>
<p>‘“But will your DS be better off going to a top school? YES.”
Oh really?? Better off how? Prove “better off” Quantify “better off”
Trytelling that to EvilRobot.He want to Vandy on a full ride. Was soooo happy [ came back to CC to tell us so] and landed a job at Google straight out of college 4 years ago. Or Curmudgeons DD.Accepted at Yale. Full ride at Rhodes which is where she decided to go for UG pre- med studies… Honors up the wazoo. And now is just were she expected to be-Yale Med school[ the college she turned down still wanted her 4 years later. My my. what a surprise. Or my DS. Turned down 13 higher ranked colleges , including 2 "Ivy’s’ for a fabulous scholarship and opportunities to work with… wait for it… the former Dean of the Geophysics dept at MIT, who is now at USC running a inter- university consortium Geophysics research program. DS graduates in 2 weeks and starts his PHD at Cal Tech in Sept.
What do all these examples show? There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Your D hasn’t even graduated yet and you think you can predict that others would be better off if they go to a “top” school?
What arrogance…</p>
<p>menloparkmom: Can you quantify that all your mention cases won’t be better off?</p>
<p>Had EvilRobot gone to MIT, he might have opened another Google instead of working at it.</p>
<p>Had Curmudgeons gone to Yale to begin with, she might not have gone to medicine but might have been an ambassador at UN helping solving crisis in Libya. </p>
<p>Had your DS gone Ivies instead of USC might have proven the string theory and be nominated for a noble prize.</p>
<p>Can you say it would not have happen? You never know because they didn’t go.</p>
<p>The proven concept or fact is that they must have achieved at least what they have achieved now but could have achieved even better.</p>
<p>There is nothing arrogant about stating the fact that everyone benefit from better resources, peer group, challenging task.</p>
<p>If that’s not true then why EviRobot joining Google, or Curmudgeons going to Yale for medicine or your DS going to Caltech for Phd?</p>
<p>What has changed now? If they are so great to begin with then they don’t need top companies or colleges to prove how great they are.</p>
<p>You can’t say that it is beneficial to go for post graduation to a top college or company but not for under graduate degree.</p>
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<p>These examples shows that these individuals are very well accomplished individuals and would have done even better if had chosen the better college.</p>
<p>I think at the back of your mind somewhere you have this feeling that you might have shortchanged your DS because if he was able to do so much from USC he could have achieved even bigger heights had he gone to Caltech to begin with.</p>
<p>POIH, these 3 young people are all now doing what they wanted to do, and all have gotten there without having to pay a fortune in UG tuition at an “Ivy” or other more"prestigious" colleges.
And as your silly post shows, you have not actually paid attention to what others have said their children actually wanted to accomplish, or you simply don’t get it or want to get it. Too bad…
by the way… string theory? oh brother…absolutely of no interest. He has much, much bigger
goals…like accurately predicting earthquakes and saving hundreds of thousands of lives. He can live without a Nobel prize…I wonder if you will let your DD do so too?</p>
<p>“I think at the back of your mind somewhere you have this feeling that you might have shortchanged your DS because if he was able to do so much from USC he could have achieved even bigger heights if he had gone to Caltech to begin with.”
yeah, right…
you would make one lousy shrink, cause 1-you dont even listen to what others have said , and 2-what you just did is project your own insecurities onto others… takes a shrinks daughter to spot a psuedo shrink a mile away…ta ta…</p>
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<p>Can you with 100% certainty say that he would not be more closer to achieving his goals had he gone to Caltech to begin with?</p>
<p>I can’t and still think your DS would have done much better had he gone to Caltech to begin with.</p>
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<p>POIH…sometimes NUMBERS do not answer the questions. Sometimes you can’t “quantify” things because they are a matter of personal taste, feeling, desire, heart. If they only way you can communicate is with NUMBERS, you are missing a huge piece of how many folks think, feel and make decisions.</p>
<p>I would urge you to consider using multiple ways to think about this and stop relying so heavily on the numbers. </p>
<p>My kid knows Harvard is a top school…but she HATED the place…hated it. She thought the buildings were ugly and she didn’t like Cambridge at all. There are no NUMBERS to substantiate her FEELINGS. Harvard would NOT have been a better choice for her for college because she hated it…for unquantifiable reasons…and as a good communicator…<em>I</em> listened to her.</p>
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<p>EVERYONE?? Give me a break. Even the top schools have students who transfer OUT or withdraw…or are asked to leave…and they THRIVE somewhere else.</p>
<p>It’s arrogant to say that EVERYONE benefits…and in so doing imply that this should BE the choice for EVERYONE if they are able to have that choice.</p>
<p>Oh for crying out loud, POIH, can you stop with all the hypothetical garbage? Had any student gone to any other school they might or might not have done other things or pursued other jobs. Perhaps if Evil Robot had gone to Yale he would have hated it and dropped out. My brother went to Yale and had to go to an offshore med school afterwards. And his grades at Yale were fine. Perhaps 'mudges daughter would have not been able to go to any med school had she gone to Yale UG, because perhaps she couldn’t have afforded to go to med school. Who knows. Why are you saying all this nonsense. IT is coming across not only as arrogant, but simply ridiculous.</p>
<p>My s though he wanted to go to MIT. He hated it (and Dart) when he visited. Didn’t even apply. Many people make choices based on what is right for them, NOT based what their parents can brag about.</p>
<p>Being so linear in your thinking is keeping you from seeing the many facets of choices and feelings that go into decisions. There is NO EVIDENCE that any of the people would have done any better if thay had got to a different school. It is just as likely they sould have done the same or perhaps worse. And who, besides you, is to say that any given school is “better”. There are many different criteria for that-- not just numbers from surveys, or, even worse, the USNews list. Ugh.</p>
<p>And by the way, I don’t think there is such thing as a “proven concept”. A concept is a thought formed in ones belief system. When is your wife coming back from India? You seemed to be a less irrational person when she was around.</p>
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<p>POIH…YOU are projecting YOUR point of view onto others…which is NOT necessary. If you have an opinion, that’s fine but to state that YOU have a crystal ball when none of the rest of us does…is well…ridiculous.</p>
<p>Please…LISTEN to what others are saying and THINKING. Then express your OPINION as your OPINION…not the gospel…because it isn’t the gospel. Other people CAN have different opinions than you…and that’s ok. It’s called “perspective taking”…and it’s something good communicators do.</p>
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Ummmm … nope. That’s not what these examples show AT ALL. And what constitutes “the better college” is the complicated result of many factors. </p>
<p>Please, POIH, some respect for the viewpoints, personal situations, and feelings of your fellow CCers. Almost everyone else on this thread has managed to show exactly that. You don’t know that Evil Robot won’t someday develop a technology that will make Google look like yesterday’s mashed potatoes. You don’t know that curm’s d won’t someday make a contribution to medicine that would far outstrip the significance of helping to solve the Libyan crisis. And you don’t know that your own d won’t fall short of their accomplishments despite that much-mentioned MIT degree. Please give it a rest.</p>
<p>Maybe this would be a good place to post my situation as I am in a similar position as OP’s son but 1 year down the road. I am still deciding (yes I know May 1st is alarmingly close) between U of Michigan and Cornell for UG engineering. I am struggling to decide if I can justify myself as well as my family taking out substantial loans to pay for Cornell which offered no aid over Michigan for about the price of my state school (Penn State) thanks to a great scholarship and graduate with zero debt. Both schools are highly ranked in engineering but would Cornell make a worthwhile difference when it comes to jobs/ internship opportunities? It’s also probably noteworthy to mention that, at Cornell, I was named a Meinig Scholar, which is a leadership/service program that supposedly provides you with deans as advisors and may help with getting internships and jobs as well. what do you guys think?</p>
<p>instantly I know this is hard to do but if you took the names away and looked at the schools do you know which one you would pick? </p>
<p>What are your parents thoughts? What is the total price difference?</p>
<p>They are both great schools-no wonder you are having a hard time.</p>
<p>Instant-- would YOU have to take out loans beyond the staffords?</p>
<p>Do your parents have objections to paying for the rest of your education?</p>
<p>I ask, because, I do believe that the amount of debt incurred from the government limit is very doable for an Engineering Grad from Cornell. But, I would add, if there is an objection to the cost, going to UMich for engineering is no second-rate substitute. It’s a fantastic education.</p>
<p>You don’t have a bad choice here. Why not talk to your parents and see what they think?</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Instant -
I believe you should ask yourself, “which place is a better fit for me? Where will I be happier?”.
What do you think?..</p>
<p>@ParentOfIvyHope wrote “…DD is full pay at MIT @ $55K annually but I think it is worth each penny. She will be paid $18K for her coming summer internship which I don’t think she would have got at another college as Sophomore.
I don’t think you can put a cost on such valuable experience. Is it worth taking a loan? It’s up to each family to decide but I think it might be more prudent to take a loan for such an experience than a piece of land or other materialistic objects…”</p>
<p>I have to set this straight - please check the website of all Ivy leagues including MIT, they stated very clearly NO Merit scholarship. Lucky you to have your DD got full ride to MIT, but I am sure MITChris would agree that MIT is full-need school which will fully meet all the need if the family has demonstrated need. So that is finaid NOT merit scholarship. Many upper middle class families with extremely bright children just don’t enjoy that regardless how bright/talented they are. </p>
<p>Going back to the theme of this thread, I believe it you have to pay $55K x 4 for MIT and you have other mid-west non-Ivy paying full-ride, you will think differently.</p>