<p>this is amazingly timely for me as well and is making me re-think my feelings about scouts
my 12 year old loves scouts and flies through the ranks easily while the 14 year old enjoys the kids and the football they play on breaks and even some of the trips. he is not into rank and badges and doens’t want to go anymore. i have a hard time quitting things so i may be pushing him into staying for my own reasons… hmm time to reconsider???</p>
<p>kayak, you could try my strategy from post 35. I really thought that once I made the offer to let him quit, he would. Surprised me when he recommitted to the whole thing. Of course, you can only make that offer if you’re willing to follow through; you’d hate to have him call your bluff!</p>
<p>Some of these posts are why I didn’t get involved in Scouts. Seemed like there were too many power-tripping, type-A, chief dads. :(</p>
<p>archiemom:</p>
<p>Thank you for your suggestions. Since my son has 6 more months before he is 18 we are going to give it some time and see what happens. It is good to know that we have some other options should we need them. I do have one question–are the troop allowed to make up there own rules for who is allowed to sign off on requirements or is there a “standard” they should be following. Specifically, the eagle rank application states: “Take part in a Scoutmaster conference (with Scoutmaster, Coach, or Advisor).” My sons scout master is tell him that in this troop only the scout master can conduct this conference and sign off on this requirement. Does this sound right to you? Thanks for your guidance(it is the most I have ever received from anyone in scouting)</p>
<p>midsummer, PM the poster on here named Hunt. He’s been a wealth of information for me during the process. I’m sure he’d help you, too.</p>
<p>mdsummer- I agree that your son should talk to the Scoutmaster, however, I think he should sit down and talk with him in person and make a list of the things the Scoutmaster thinks he needs to do to demonstrate Scout Spirit, and get the Scoutmaster to initial it. This will show that your son is taking the initiative and is not afraid to tackle the issue face to face with the Scoutmaster, without his parents there. A letter may seem too confrontational, and also if it’s too professional will look like the parents had a hand in it. There is no way your son can prove it is his own letter, without your interference.
A letter asking for a meeting would be ok, but it sounds like the relationship between your son and the Scoutmaster is pretty shaky, which is why I think your son would be better off meeting him in person. From the tone of your letter, it seems like this may have been an issue for awhile.
Even though the Scoutmaster may be irrational and not fair, it’s in your son’s best interest to handle this in person and really try to find out what the problem is with an open mind. That would be the best learning experience for your son. Good luck!</p>
<p>midsummer:
Yes, it is my understanding that a Scoutmaster must conduct and sign-off on the Scoutmaster Conference. In our troop, it generally was the “chief” scoutmaster, especially for Eagle, although Assistant Scoutmasters also held scoutmaster conferences at lower ranks. I imagine for Eagle, the Scoutmaster would want to hold the conference, but if an assistant scoutmaster knows your son better, perhaps that would be an approach. I know there is a certain amount of personality and politicking involved, in all aspects of scouts.</p>
<p>As for troops making up there own rules: scout rank requirements are meant to be standardized for all scouts and troops. However, there is some leeway at the troop level on how troops evaluate things like leadership, scout spirit and even the value/accomplishment of Eagle projects. If I can lend any further advice, let me know. I have sat on many Eagle Boards of Review, as well as having been quite active in all administrative tasks for a boy scout troop (not much camping and programmatic time, tho).</p>
<p>Why even bother with all of this? It’s Boy Scouts–big deal. Let him find another activity–a school EC, sports, church youth group, music, art, performing arts, robotics, etc.</p>
<p>mdsummer- just saw your latest post. I would suggest that you don’t wait too long to resolve this issue. Once your son is 18, it’s too late. You need to have the application in, with the signatures necessary, before that birthday.<br>
You could get the next level up, Council, involved, but it would really be in your son’s best interest to handle this at the troop level. As far as you know, the Council might side with the Scoutmaster- you don’t know what friendships and loyalties may exist.
In my experience with my son’s troop, when the Scoutmaster has told a scout that he needs to work on his Scout Spirit it’s because the scout has either been lax about certain rules, or he has shown a reluctance to follow through with suggestions, or he shows some negativity. In the cases I’m familiar with, the “notice” that the Scoutmaster gives helps the boy recognize the issue, and in every case it’s something that is resolved fairly easily. The Scoutmaster most likely does not want your son to fail. It’s my guess that he sees a problem, and wants to help him overcome it. Whether he’s accurate in his assessment, I have no idea, but just like when a teacher has a particular point of view, it’s usually easier to find out what the issue is and fix it than to go to the principal and complain. Chances are, the problem is pretty easily fixed.</p>
<p>nysmile- the boy has already invested a lot in scouting, and most likely would like to reach the goal he set for himself. Dropping out now would be like dropping out of college after four years of completing the requirements, and not getting your diploma because you didn’t file a certain piece of paperwork. If he’s earned his Eagle, he should have it.</p>
<p>Cronie:</p>
<p>I agree with all your comments and suggestions and that is why I am laying back as a parent. My son is a very capable young man and I have told him that this experience will help him in his future. I am going to give him your suggestion regarding making a list with the scout master and having the scout master sign off on the list. Do you feel that including a date for the SM conference would be an appropriate item to include on the list or would that appear too pushy? Hopefully, the SM will agree to this method. I am concerned because in the SM letter to my son the SM used the words “perception” and did not give any examples as to why he felt the way he did. I am trying not to over analyze this.</p>
<p>If this is something that he really wants to do, then perhaps he can call the scoutmaster and arrange a meeting with him to discuss the problem. Step back and let him decide if this is something that he really wants. I’m sure he’s invested work and time into his project but sometimes, just going through the process can be rewarding in itself. His experience will not be wasted. </p>
<p>If he feels strongly about earning his Eagle Scout Award, let him contact the Scoutmaster via a phone call. If he doesn’t feel strongly about it, it may be a good idea to let it go. He’ll soon be moving on to adulthood and all of this drama will be nothing more than a blip in his life. Good luck to your son and I hope it all ends well for him.</p>
<p>Midsummer, I would encourage you to have your son sit down with the Scoutmaster. One thing I always appreciated about my son’s scouting experience: it got him out of his comfort zone just a bit. He had to do the calling about project donations, line up his helpers–young and old, talk to grouchy scoutmaster types, etc. The experience of sitting down with the scoutmaster–even if he is an unreasonable man–will give your son some valuable real-life experience. He’s old enough to handle standing up and fighting for himself and could really benefit from the experience. </p>
<p>It would be way out of line if the scoutmaster stood in his way if he has earned the Eagle rank. That award is meaningful to those who are familiar with it. Also encourage you and/or your son should follow through with the district eagle advisor after your son has exhausted his options with the local troop.</p>
<p>If I were the child and forced to be part of an activity I did not want to be in I would feel very angry/resentful.</p>
<p>mdsummer- I think your son could bring up the date of a conference in the conversation- but I wouldn’t push it to be on his initialed list. It would make it seem like your son doesn’t trust him. (although he might not, for his own reasons, he doesn;t want to give that impression…;)) Your son could ask for a time frame- like “If I can accomplish these points by such and such a time, would you then feel that you could sign off on my Scout Spirit?” or something to that effect. It’s unlikely that the Scoutmaster would go back on his word.<br>
Once your son talks to the Scoutmaster, you can go over the conversation with him and see if there are things you can suggest to him to help him achieve his goal. Sometimes adults and kids see things very differently (duh!) and, for example, what may seem disrespectful to an adult was not intended that way at all by the kid. Once you know what the issues are, you’ll be able to help your son alter the “perception.”</p>
<p>mdsummer45, has your son already finished all the other requirements for Eagle, including his project, all his merit badges, and his time in positions of responsibility? It sounds like you’re saying he has, and the obstacle is the final scoutmaster’s conference, and then the Board of Review. Is that the situation?</p>
<p>Edited to add: if your son is a senior in high school, has his attendance at scout meetings and activities dropped off? That is something that will sometimes make a scoutmaster not want to sign off on scout spirit. It’s also possible that there is something else going on that you don’t know about.</p>
<p>mdsummer45, you have been given some great suggestions here. I would especially second this recommendation of archiemom:
In our district, this person has the most practical knowledge of the Eagle process (and any alternative processes) and is familiar with the different troops and troop leadership idiosyncrasies. </p>
<p>I am confused a bit about where your son is in the process. He has finished his project?</p>
<p>You guys are so helpful!!!</p>
<p>Hunt:
My son’s attendance did drop off in his junior yr(he is a senior now) but that is pretty typical in this troop–even the SM son dropped out of sight most of his junior year only to resurface 6 mos before his 18th bday. That is why I feel that there are different rules for different kids. My son is back on track in attendance and troop outings and this troop has a history of trying to hold on to the boys until they are close to their 18th bday because even thought most of the boys say at their eagle board of review that they are going to remain active in the troop once they receive eagle(they tell each other to say this at the BOR) none of them ever do. My sons project is complete and has 2 merit badges to finish (which will be completed by the end of Dec) He has held a position of responsibility for the appropriate time. All he needs to do (besides the 2 merit badges) is present his final eagle report to the troop committee for their signature. My concern is that the SM sent copies of his letter to the troop advisor, troop committee chairman and troop advancement chairmen. " I have included a copy of this letter to the following scout leaders listed below do they understand what I have shared with you. All of them will eventually have to be a part of your advancement approval in the future." So yes he is physically finished his project and it has been signed off as complete by the receiving institution but has not presented the completed project to the troop committee for their signature. I guess based on past experiences with this troop I am paranoid. Maybe the SM is trying in his own way to give him a heads up. Hopefully the list suggestion from cronie will be a positive tool. Thanks again for all your comments and suggestions --they are so helpful</p>
<p>I agree that he needs to go the the SM to find out exactly what the problem is (if he doesn’t already know). He should get those last two merit badges done as soon as possible so he has time to deal with any more problems. Since they’re not finished, he’s not ready for his scoutmaster conference now anyway.</p>
<p>From my own experience:
Demonstrating Scout Spirit is open to wide interpretation. While, as parents we understood that most scouts had a lot on their plates by the time they were juniors/seniors in high school (girls and cars being the biggest distraction 
), troop leaders and parents of younger scouts always wanted those older scouts to stay active. Since the troops are “boy-led” by those older more experienced scouts, when they disappear for a while, it’s difficult to mentor those younger scouts up through the ranks. In our troop, we developed minimum attendance requirements (not strictly according to the written rank requirements) that some scouts and parents felt were unduly restrictive. But like any EC, the student/scout needs to choose where he wants to spend his time and effort. One doesn’t make a varsity team by picking-and-choosing when to show up for practice. Likewise with eagle scout requirements.</p>
<p>Midsummer: In rereading the last few posts, it appears to me that the scoutmaster may be trying to be very clear about the troop’s requirements, in advance of any official conference or BOR. Scoutmasters and Board of Review members really hate to turn a scout away because requirements aren’t met. I agree with the above posters who have suggested that your son clarify his position with the scoutmaster as soon as possible, in order to fulfill whatever is lacking – six months is not very much time.</p>
<p>My interpretation of the situation is that the scoutmaster is covering his a** by writing this letter and cc’ing the rest of the troop committee. Perhaps some of the troop committee voiced concern about the boy’s attitude or level of participation, and the scoutmaster had no other choice but to put it in writing. In my experience, this sort of issue would be handled via a phone call rather than a formal letter. The tone of the letter suggests that the scout does not have an advocate among the adult troop leadership.</p>
<p>First step: scout calls the scoutmaster ASAP and asks to schedule an appointment to discuss the issue. It would be ideal if a third party “insider” attended the meeting, perhaps an ass’t scoutmaster to whom the scout feels close, or a troop leader who has been the most involved in the Eagle service project or for many Scouting years. </p>
<p>It is odd that the parents are specifically asked to back off.</p>
<p>I suspect that the troop leadership has issues with recent participation and contribution, specifically troop meeting attendance. Maybe he needs to show up more, regardless of what other guys his grade/rank do. They may be looking for some indication that the rank of Eagle means something to this scout. It will be the boy’s job to convey interest and inquire about specific issues that have been raised so that he can address them. </p>
<p>I suggest that, if it hasn’t happened already, that the scout and his parents backtime the timetable from the boy’s 18th birthday taking into account the completion of the final two merit badges and counselor sign-off, the Eagle conference with the scoutmaster, the board of review date (several people must be at the meeting, so that takes some coordination), the due date for any REVISIONS to the Eagle packet that may be requested at the BOR, the amount of time the scoutmaster needs after the final packet is signed off to get the regional and national approvals, and the date of the Court of Honor that the boy is shooting for. Also take into account standardized test dates, finals weeks, AP exam weeks, the scoutmaster’s vacation, etc. to try to avoid logjams. Some of these are common sense, and some are questions that the scoutmaster needs to answer. It is important to develop a reasonable timeline that avoids last-minute special trips to Council on your son’s behalf and FedEx expenses if they can be avoided. Also, in our troop, local dignitaries and politicians are invited to speak at the Court of Honor, a flag that has flown over the Capitol is presented to the Eagle Scout, etc. and it takes a little time to arrange these special touches. If the scoutmaster is vague about deadlines, you will need to find a troop administrative person who works to a calendar who can help explain what is needed. Also, check with the parents of other Eagles as to their son’s experience.</p>
<p>I have been on a troop’s Board of Review committee for several years. The quality difference in how the scouts document and write up their Eagle project varies widely. Many times, the committee will ask for tweaks or minor revisions that will help to better describe the scope and significance of the project. This has caused cardiac arrest in scouts who have crunched out the paperwork to meet the meeting deadline and who are now in the position of making another round of revisions in addition to preparing for big exams that week. If it is possible to review some Eagle packets that have recently passed muster, that will give your son an idea of the level of detail expected and it could save him delays at the end of the process. If your son is as high-achieving as you say, they will expect much more from him (and his paperwork) than if he is not an academically-inclined young person. </p>
<p>This is somewhat snarky, but consider if there are other Eagles in the pipeline who are on the same general schedule as your son. Is it possible that some are the sons of these troop leaders and the parents don’t want them to share the Court of Honor spotlight with another scout (your son?).</p>
<p>Six months passes quickly. Don’t delay!</p>