<p>Thanks all—my son has read all of the posts and appreciates ( as do I ) all your suggestions. He plans on asking the SM & perhaps another leader to meet with him at the next scout meeting(since the SM will only meet on meeting days). Will let you all know how it goes. The sad thing about all of this is that for years other parents have been trying to break into the inner circle but without success. Now since the boys of all of these leaders have either received their Eagle last year (late 07 ), this year(08) or will be receiving them in 09, the adult leadership including the SM are complaining that there is no involvement from the other scouts parents. In the past 3 years this troop has gone from a membership of 45 to perhaps 20 boys ( many left because they and their parents were frustrated with the leadership). So by the end of 09 another 5 boys will be gone and there are maybe 1 or 2 new scouts bridging over from cubs and maybe 1 will stay for more than a year. It saddens me that this troop will eventually disappear since the current leadership felt no need to groom any new parents to eventually assume leadership roles.</p>
<p>Hmm, it might be a good idea for your son to write an email to the SM and cc the second leader, thanking them for agreeing to meet with him on date xyz. And then a summary email after the meeting (thank you for clarifying that I need to do abc to demonstrate Scout Spirit. I plan to do abc in the following ways while finishing my merit badges by date XXX, and will have my Eagle Report ready for the BOR on date XXX—make sure he can meet those dates). A nice, polite, non confrontational email. It would be hard for the SM to deny the meeting when your son has something in writing, in advance of the meeting. And then the summary after, especially if the SM doesn’t respond. Keep in mind that I have a Girl Scout, but I would have her write the email…and I would have my two nephews write it as well.</p>
<p>i also appreciate your advice. i spoke to my 14 year old today and said that since he had been in scouting for a year and is old enough to make decisions about whether he likes an activity or not he could quit scouts or keep with it as he chose.
as other posters have said, once it was up to him he decided to stay with it at his own pace and complete requirements on his own time schedule.
this is going to make our life much eaier because i am done nagging! whew!
(note to self… keep your paws off his scouting now! he said he would do things himself!!)</p>
<p>One point of clarification on speckledegg’s post: not every element of the Eagle process mentioned has to be done before the 18th birthday. Before the scout turns 18, he must get all the required merit badges, meet the position of responsibility requirements, complete his project, have his scoutmaster conference, and submit the completed Eagle Rank Application. The Board of Review can occur after the birthday, but of course that wouldn’t leave any time to fix any problems found at the Board (which doesn’t usually happen). The Court of Honor can happen after the 18th birthday (and around here, it often does). Actually the Court of Honor doesn’t have to occur at all, because the boy is an Eagle Scout as of the date of his Board of Review once it is approved by National.</p>
<h1>55</h1>
<p>mdsummer45
New Member</p>
<p>Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 0
I am back again for some advice—I’ve re posted my original post (11-08) as a brief review…</p>
<p>both of my sons have been in boy scouts 1st grade. My oldest has just finished his eagle service project and has been made to jump through so may hoops it has become a joke. 99% of the older boys in the troop have a father who is part of the “inner circle” of the troop. It is so obvious that there are two different standards --one for those whose fathers are " in the circle" and one for those boys whose fathers are not. This is a situation that unfortunately is very common in our area. My oldest has now received a letter from his scout master threatening that at this point the scout master would deny my son the final scout master conference because the scout master does not feel my son is demonstrating the scout spirit. The letter gives no specific examples for this feeling and basically states that he could derail my sons attempt to receive his eagle rank. Any suggestions on any recourse we could have should this scout master refuse to sign off on the scout master conference for eagle? PS my son is an honors student with membership in 4 honor societies in high school and holds leadership positions in 2 of the honor societies and is in the top 10% of his graduating class. …</p>
<p>Here is where my son stands today(03-09)…he has finished all of his merit badges and has completed his eagle project. All he needs to do is have the scout master conference before he allowed to stand for the eagle board of review…therein lies the problem…the scout master is still refusing to sign off on the scout master conference… After my son received the letter(11-08) from the scout master my son asked the scout master if they could set up a meeting to discuss the letter…the scout master told my son “to talk to me later”. My son attempted to approach the SM at the next mtg but since there were cub scout leaders attending the meeting my son was not able to speak with the SM. My son again attempted to talk with the SM at the next meeting but the SM was not avail at that mtg. My son then decided to contact the SM via email. My son received no reply from the SM. My son (nor I) did not see that as unusual since in the past the SM had not replied to email from my son or myself for that matter. My son therefore felt that after asking and emailing the SM for a meeting and being verbally put off and having the email ignored by the SM , that the SM was not interested in meeting with him. My son felt that continuing to ask for a meeting maybe viewed as “bugging” the SM. My son has been on all of the outings with the exception of one he missed due to an illness and one that conflicted with a math honor society competition(his teacher signed him up and paid for his participation before notifying my son of the date). My son has attended PLC mtgs in addition to the regular scout mtgs. At no time in the past 5 mos has the SM said anything to my son. Last Monday nite my son approaches the SM to ask him about scheduling a SM conference for eagle…again he was told “talk to me later” so at the PLC last Wed nite my son once again approaches the SM and was told" talk to me Monday night(last night)" … This brings us to last night when my son approached the SM and was told “my feeling have not changed and that I do not feel that I can sign off on that requirement”…my son said thank you and came out to the car and broke into tears…The SM is saying my son never contacted him(even when presented with a copy of the email the SM claims he never received it…). My son tried to talk to 2 of the other scout leaders but both of them said that they couldn’t get involved–another leader is going to see what he can do but as it stands now after being told that the SM was the only person who could sign off on the requirement , the SM told my son to ask the troop committee chairman if they could schedule a “special” committee meeting for my son so that my son could speak to the entire committee…my question is if the SM is the only one who can sign off why tell my son to talk to the entire troop committee…can they over ride the SM… wouldn’t that be 'changing the rules". My son fully intends to present his case to the committee. HELP</p>
<p>Wow! I don’t know that much about Boy Scout’s organization, but if it was my Girl Scout, I’d be on the phone with the Council offices (ie whatever the paid staff are called in your area). I’ld document all of your son’s attempts to work with this Scout Master, document all of his activites, all of the activities of the “in the circle” group, and ask for
advice. Try to be as calm as possible (wouldn’t be possible for me, but try)–sort of just the facts. And then act immediately on whatever advice you receive. If you don’t get help, call the next level up.
Good Luck to you and your son.</p>
<p>Have not read all of the many posts but something does not sound right. If the scoutmaster had no intention months ago of signing off no matter what your son did, he should have been very clear about it. If this cannot be resolved at the troop level(good you kept copies of emails), I would take it to the Council level. If there is something the scoutmaster knows about your son (that has not come out in any of your posts), that would preclude him from ever being recommended for Eagle, your son should have been advised months ago. Didn’t the scoutmaster have to sign off on the Eagle project before your son began it?</p>
<p>Does the local council have somebody in charge of Eagle advancement? You should contact that person and describe the problem. I also think your son should talk to the Troop committee chair about the problem. Tell you son to CALL the troop committee chair on the telephone in the evening–he shouldn’t send an e-mail. Your son should insist on being told explicitly what the SM’s objection is, “so I can explain it to Mr. X at the Council.” The Council does not like for this to happen, and they will try to work it out if possible.
But you and your son have to be honest with yourselves as well: is there some specific thing in your son’s behavior or in his past that might explain the SM’s view? Is your son a bully? Did he steal something? Does he fail to do his share of the work?</p>
<p>I also agree that your son should be the person talking to the council. It will be important for your son to demonstrate his own maturity so that the council looks into the matter, and by talking to the council, he can do that.</p>
<p>I would request, in writing, a meeting with the Scoutmaster, the Troop committee chair and the council rep. This could be scheduled before or after the next committee meeting which are usually held monthly and probaly have all three of the above there anyway. you should be present, but let your son do the talking. I would not bring up the fact that other boys seemed to be given favored treatment, it doesn’t matter so long as your son is treated fairly. </p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>I have been involved as a leader in Boy Scouting for 13 years and I think it is a valuable program. It is essential that the boy actually have fun and enjoy it. I have seen kids “forced” to stay in scouts and it is never a good idea. That said-can he talk a firend into joining scouts with him? Having a friend or two can really make the difference. Encourage him but if it is not for him, OK. Maybe let him not go on every monthly trip. Let him decide.</p>
<p>Hunt…</p>
<pre><code>I was hoping you would find my post…your previous information was very helpful…No my son is not a bully…far from it…he is the one who always befriended any new scout. He has not stolen anything and he says (& his brother will vouch for) he is the one to volunteer for things that no one else will volunteer for. The only thing I can think of is that on one outing just before he received “the letter” there were 2 scouts(same age and rank as my son & whose fathers are scout leaders)) who were in charge. Neither one has much leadership ability. When they arrived at the campsite nothing was was happening, neither of the 2 boys who were in charge did what they were suppose to do…get things unloaded and the campsite setup. So my son told me that since it was late he stepped up and started directing the younger scouts to start unloading the truck and get the tents up. It seems that one of the boys that was suppose to be one leaders for the weekend complained to his dad (who was on the trip). To me that appears to be the problem…my son was told by the SM that he shouldn’t have done that…but my son felt that he was demonstrating good leadership by getting things rolling. It appears that nothing he does is ‘right’ too much leadership, not enough leadership…which ever one fits the situation is the one he he is told he is doing.
</code></pre>
<p>Hunt</p>
<pre><code> Should my son let the SM and Troop Committee chairman know that he wants to contact the local council regarding his situation? Would that not only make the SM “dig his heels in deeper”. I am afraid that since this SM has just received some high award " Gold Beaver"???
</code></pre>
<p>that they will just take the SM words over my sons. We do not want to create any unnecessary drama.</p>
<p>Should my son contact the District Chairman. Also his SM holds 3 position in the local district council…BS leadership training coordinator , brownsea jr leadership training SM and chairman of special board of district awards.</p>
<p>How infuriating. My ds just had his Eagle Court of Honor last night, and the SM and an ASM speaking on his behalf got all choked up talking about him. Really surprised me and made me thankful that we have a supportive troop.</p>
<p>I’d listen to whatever Hunt says. And I wouldn’t let some lazy bully SM keep my kid from earning what he’d worked so hard for.</p>
<p>mdsummer45, I don’t know what is the back story in this drama…you are portraying a scoutmaster who is unwilling to allow the Eagle rank to be awarded to your son after completion of his Eagle project. This is an extreme situation. I think I, as a parent, would leave the troop and it’s leadership out of the communication loop for the time being and would request a confidential appointment with the Executive of the District Council to discuss what you believe are the facts relating to your son’s relationship with this troop and his progress towards his Eagle rank. I would expect both you and your son to have something to say at this meeting. If you think the Scoutmaster is too closely tied to the District Executive, you might want to contact the District Executive in another council for guidance on how to proceed. If this is going to be a dead end for your son (meaning there is no way he is going to be awarded his Eagle rank), at the very least, I would be demanding a statement in writing from the District acknowledging the scoutmaster has denied the scoutmaster conference and under what conditions. Force them to put it in writing. </p>
<p>How close is your son to his 18th birthday?</p>
<p>Greta</p>
<p>I first made a posting Nov '08 to this forum regarding my sons situation (page 4 approx 1/2 way down). He will be 18 in the middle of this May. At this point my son wants to go, by himself, to the special troop committee mtg the troop committee chairman has offered to convene. Since it appears last night that the SM told my son that he (SM) is questioning my sons character (the words my son said were…“Mr SM says I have bad character”) the only elaboration the SM said was that he thought my son was a loner…My son said to me "when Mr SM said that to me I thought "What?!? Do you even know me? " Loner is not a word that could even in the remotest way be used to describe my son. My son wants to prepare a poster listing the characteristics that are noted in the Scout Law and write a comment next to each characteristic describing how he feels he exhibits that trait. I think its a good idea…any thoughts</p>
<p>Kudos to your son. If your son does not want you at the meeting, that is his choice, but I would want to be there, even if only silent, to hear, first hand, what is being said. I have to say, I really think your son deserves at least one adult in the room who will be more or less on his side. He may need someone who can help him interpret what is presented by the scoutmaster (after the meeting) and someone who can speak in favor of your son’s character, scout spirit, or whatever the issues seem to be during the meeting, if appropriate. Your son vs. the special troop committee with no one else present for your son seems harsh and unfair based on past history with this troop. Is there a clergyman or teacher he would be comfortable having attend this meeting with him? He needs an adult in the room with him or it could just be a continuation of the same vagueness.</p>
<p>With regard to the Scout Law poster, that sounds good. It should help the other adults present at the meeting get to know your son a little better.</p>
<p>I have to say, I’d be there. Silent in a chair in the corner if necessary but present in the room. And I like Greta’s suggestion of a clergy member (or some other respected adult) being there to support your son. </p>
<p>If you are there, with an outside adult, you will have first hand knowledge of what transpires in case you have to move up the ladder of authority.</p>
<p>There is a very active Scouting website at [SCOUTER</a> Forums](<a href=“http://www.scouter.com/forums]SCOUTER”>SCOUTER Forum). Put your post in the Advancements category.</p>