To Tour or Not to Tour?

My son is a high school junior. He wants to study Jazz in college, his primary instrument is the guitar but he also plays trumpet (and is pretty darn good at it too). There are currently about 15 schools on his list. We’ve seen about a handful of them in person between actual college tours or summer camps.

That leaves about 6-8 schools that aren’t the top of his list but still ones he’s interested in. About half of those require a pre-screen whereas the other half do not. We might have some time during his spring break in March to visit some schools and I am not sure if it’s better to aim at the schools that don’t offer a pre-screen just because it would be nice to know you want to move forward with applying there or if its better to aim for those that do require a pre-screen since it’ll take a lot more work to apply to those and you don’t want to waste time with a school you didn’t like in person.

We have tried narrowing down his list via college fairs and even lessons with instructors but some of these we haven’t been able to weed out yet.

Curious how you all handled tours or not touring.

We are in Florida so any of these visits would require us to travel out of state.

The schools left to look at are these:

Peabody
NEC
Rutgers
Hartford
Oberlin
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
Loyola New Orleans

My son did not tour anywhere before his in person auditions. But he was on a super tight budget. It was never a consideration.

Just based on his experience as every kid is different but two things come to mind:

  1. My son was easily able to get a sense about fit within the very short audition visit. He of course saw the school/city (he dislikes school tours so often explored on his own) and had conversations with some of the current students. These were either friends he knew from the HS class ahead of him or even the music student volunteers who assist the applicants on audition day. All of his visits were less than 24 hours due to budget constraints.

  2. My son’s priorities of what he wanted in a program evolved so much over the few months of the audition season. So I think looking at schools in his junior year would have been wasted effort.

But that’s just our experience. Best of luck! :blush:

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My son (jazz guitar) was able to get a good sense at auditions for sure. Having said that, we did do a bunch of tours, summer camps, etc . I feel like, for him, it all came down to the guitar professor he wanted to work with based on meeting him (style, vibe, fit…). However, one place we auditioned he immediately knew “not here.” Bottom line…do what you can!

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For jazz perf, the most important thing is fit with the teacher, but because it is so small to medium ensemble based, the atmosphere of the music school is very important, too. While in most cases, i feel that visits are best done after acceptance, in your son’s case, i think a visit with tryout lessons with guitar (and trumpet if he intends to continue it) and a meetup/sit in with a practice session of a jazz ensemble, to see how he feels about the other students would be a very good idea.

So if you cannot visit all, and have tryout lessons at all, (they can get expensive), is there any other basis on which you can pare down the list? Sound, personality, and reputation of teachers and atmosphere, based upon info he gleans from students currently or recently at those schools. Inner city school vs rueal? Access to a jazz scene?

I’ve been pushing him to get lessons but many of the professors he’s emailed don’t respond. I’m having him try again in January and if still no answer I may have him reach out to admissions just because at a music college fair we were directed to do just that if we had issues. We’ve already dwindled the list down a lot by determining who has jazz guitar faculty that he’d like to work with as well as who offers merit. His ideal location is NYC but we have Rutgers and Hartford on the list because they aren’t THAT far from the city. Way closer to NYC than where we are right now that’s for sure. Jazz scene is definitely a big factor as well. It’s just so tough because he has friends that are seniors this year that are also going to college for jazz and some don’t have an extensive list and are getting denials from their pre-screens so it terrifies me that we need to have a good buffer too.

Everything you said is accurate. Teacher is so important with jazz (my son went for one specific teacher and has been pleasantly surprised with others (his went on sabbatical for a semester). The feel of the school, the jazz scene, etc. My son gigs extensively because there is a good scene. I def recommend reaching out to admissions for that added help. Best of luck! Feel free to pm if you have questions. Mine is a sophmore jazz guitarist

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Tis the season for great concern from prescreen rejections. Remember that students can only go to one school…so some rejections are just part of the process to get to ONE school.

I’m not a jazz parent (VP and MT auditions). Touring every school will NOT guarantee admittance nor relieve future stress. Here is some advice which may or may not work for you.

Consider “grouping” the remaining schools. Is there something different about a particular school that will make it worth the visit? We made sure my D saw LACs, stand-alone conservatories and a big U with music school. We also checked out rural vs suburban vs urban environments. We did not visit all schools that she applied to. She even auditioned at some schools in Chicago (unified audition for MT) where she got acceptance with never being on campus. We decided to visit some schools if she was accepted. We did not have the budget to hit every school.

This would be a great time to have “the money” and “alternative paths” discussions, particularly if he is seeing the rejections. This is a “smart” discussion…not a “fearful, I’m not good enough” discussion…so be sure that you are in a good head space. I would suggest a discussion about…hey what if you don’t get in? I remember having this discussion with my D when she was trapped in the car with me…and couldn’t escape. Sure, she was mad at me for bringing it up…but it got the ball rolling more seriously about alternatives to NYU (which we couldn’t afford…and in the end she never applied to bc she finally got serious about schools and costs in late junior year). I also wanted her to seriously choose a NON-AUDITION school that she could be happy with. What would the plan be there? How would that work? What performance opportunities would she get? Some people work with their kids to find out a gap year would be OK. Maybe he would want to gig for a year. Some kids even discuss other majors. The point is: have some INTERESTING alternatives to take the stress off. Have him mentally explore or imagine other possibilities…to continue in music…in a non-traditional path. This will NOT be the first or last time…he may have to widen the path…to assure a future in music.

I hope that this helps. He’ll probably do fine in the traditional path but to manage stress…take a wider view NOW as opposed to in a year. Knowing that there is an alternative path can relieve stress.

Addition: Some teachers don’t give lessons or you may be hitting them a little early. I would prefer a jazz parent to reply on this…but I’m just thinking he may be a little young still…but coming into late junior year may be better of timing. His private teacher may have some advice on this.

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So important because as I posted before mine started his journey thinking only Berklee and in the end, after seeing all kinds of schools, he decided a big university was more for him.

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We’re in the middle between pre screens and auditions right now. Part of how we pared down our list was really taking time to watch online tours from YouTube and such to get a feel for the schools. We also hunted down what we could about studios and tried to see some performances from students.
We also definitely used budget as a guide. There were a number of schools that we would have needed big merit awards to make them possible and my teen decided not to try at most of those.
Hopefully what we’ve done is going to come together well. We’ll see in a few months!

ETA: Masterclasses can sometimes be found online - very helpful for getting an idea of what specific professors are like.

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We’ve actually gotten lessons from several professors and none seemed concerned he was a junior. I’m hoping you are right though about them being more willing late junior year. It would be nice to just get responses to his emails.

Thanks! I’ll mention the online tours and even have him hunt down student performances and masterclasses from those professors as well.

While Hartt is good conservatory, Hartford is not that close to nyc. Best way to get there is a 2 hr bus ride, when no traffic, and there is always traffic.

Rutgers is on a commuter line into nyc.

A safety with commuter line access to nyc and a good jazz program is western ct state U.

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We were talking exactly about this last night when I had him trapped in the car with me lol I thin we may take Hartt off of the list because it would be a 2 hour drive into the city and just not ideal. I’ll have him look at western ct state. Thanks!!

SUNY Purchase? My son said everyone he knows there is very happy with their program. I also agree with HARTT being quite far and the good program at WCSU. We are in CT.

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SUNY Purchase was on our list. Up until one of his good friends went and toured it and did not like it at all. I’m not sure what about Purchase his friend really didn’t like though.

Purchase has an amazing program and faculty. Half their faculty plays in the Village Vanguard Orchestra every Monday night, with amazing pro jazz vets like John Riley and Terell Stafford. The vibe there is very nurturing and the faculty couldn’t be more supportive. Also, there is large performing arts community there, so there is a lot going on that’s not just jazz.

Unfortunately, the campus is a SUNY, and it doesn’t seem to get a lot of love. The music building is a little run down and sad, and the campus is a little spread out… that makes it pretty verdant, but also makes it seem sparsely populated.

Again, I can’t say enough good things about the program, the kids sound great and after attending a number of their recitals and critiques I can say that the faculty are pretty involved (when they’re not playing in NYC :slight_smile:

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My son applied to Hartt as a safety with a video audition. We had toured the campus and it’s a great school and pretty integrated with UHartford. Beautiful campus, lots of new facilities, and a well regarded named jazz program with great faculty. Hartford isn’t a great college town though there are some good college bars. Trinity and St. Joes are there too.

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TLDR: NYC safeties include WestConn, William Paterson, Rutgers, Montclair State…

Your son’s list of remaining schools varies wildly in type, size of jazz program and location. We toured a number of schools local to New England, and I’m glad we did. The Berklee tour was super illuminating, and really helped S get a feel for the vibe and prepare for the audition. We toured Peabody and Boyer, and realized that Peabody as the country’s oldest music conservatory (they tell you that a lot) is pretty dusty and small and not in a great neighborhood in Baltimore 15 minutes away from the Hopkins campus so that was a no. Boyer had an amazing vibe with the jazz kids and faculty who welcomed him for a day of lessons and classes and jams with open arms. S couldn’t get his head around the location or the general campus vibe, so that was a no too.

He, like your son has his heart set on NYC after a two week Jazz Improv camp at NYU. He was blown away by the proximity to all of the artists he’s grown to enjoy hearing play. They perform regularly all around town. He had already spent some time at MSM and New School, so he’s applied at all three, also City College. I highly recommend that you organize a weekend to tour those schools in Manhattan. This will definitely give you a feel for the vibe, as each of these schools are wayyyyyy different from one another.

“Safeties” for those schools would absolutely be Rutgers, William Paterson, and Montclair State. Paterson and Montclair have super stacked faculties made up (like Purchase) of jazz musicians working every night in NYC. Bill Charlap runs jazz at Paterson, and runs a number of combos himself so that every kid can study in one with him. S applied to and was granted admission to Montclair with a 30% tuition break bringing the cost down to in-state… and that was before he auditioned.

S also has auditions at UCLA, USC and Oberlin, but we didn’t tour because why fly out if he’s not going to audition, right? I was having a discussion with S’s friends father about all this, lamenting who knows where he’ll get in… he said, “Yeah, there really are no safeties.” OMG, that’s it! THERE ARE NO SAFETIES! That’s the approach we’ve taken and hopefully S will have the high class problem of a multitude of choices.

We actually went to NYC in October and saw New School, MSM, NYU, and Juilliard. He really liked the NYC schools although I think NYU fell off of his list after a student there told him that he entertained dropping out early on and that wasn’t super reassuring.

I’ll have him look at William Paterson and Montclair State. We actually talked last night about the fact that nothing is a true safety as much as he thinks there could be.

He’s iffy about Oberlin because of the location. I think USC fell off of the list early on because I think there was no jazz guitar faculty. In the end he sees himself being more on the east coast somewhere. I think the furthest west he’d go would be around Chicago. UNT fell off of his list after he did the summer jazz workshop. He loved the combo aspect of the camp, but he’s not a fan of THAT many big bands, he’s a combo kid not a big band kid and feels like the program there would just be far too big for him.

Not in the jazz world so I can’t talk that intelligently about the programs mentioned. The first reality of music schools is that the biggest factor is going to be the teacher, and that is a very individualistic thing. A program could have a great group of teachers on the instrument, and you could find none of them work for the student. It is very much a master/apprentice kind of vibe. Teachers in areas where there is a lively jazz scene, not only are likely working musicians or retired working musicians, but they also likely know how to get gigs, which for Jazz is so important. Oberlin might have a good jazz program (I really don’t know it at all for that), but because it is a traditional college town in a more rural area, the opportunity for gigs may be limited(and again, that is a hypothetical). Some kids want to be on a college campus, which means schools like NEC and Juilliard, which are stand alone conservatories, might not work for them. The other thing is the approach of the school, are they more wedded to theory then performance? Do the kids get a chance to perform in a variety of small ensembles, etc? And yes, where the school is, what it is like, is important, too. If you don’t like the school’s vibe, where for example NEC doesn’t really have a campus, there are several buildings that make it up (Berklee is the same, it is literally nearby to NEC); great area (Back Bay), but if you want a college campus, may not be a fit (NYU is like that, they used to say the city was your campus, and given how much NYU now owns of it, not entirely untrue (it was very different when I went there 90 zillion years ago, back then it was tiny compared to today real estate wise). What tours can do is give you an idea of facilities, the area they are in, and even maybe an idea of the life of the school (look at posters for events around the place, etc).

If you are applying to a lot of schools then touring can be prohibitively expensive. One value to visiting is getting an idea of what you want , standalone vs college, and you could limit your tours to each type (same with more rural vs cityish). Keep in mind that if you are going to do in person auditions, then you will be travelling there anyway, for the auditions. I realize you could eliminate schools by touring before even deciding to audition, but personally I don’t think there is an ROI on that, I would focus on figuring out schools that have teachers and programs you think would be good, set your list, view some of them pre audition to get an idea of the type of environment/school, then tour the rest when you audition. With the schools not in our area my son applied to, he didn’t see them before the auditions.

Not sure this will help anyone, but one thing I can say with all forms of music is that the real battle is with the teacher, other elements kind of work themselves out, and given the cost of touring many schools (obviously, if you are visiting NYC , a number of the schools mentioned are in this region, so those may be easier to see , you could do that in a day or two if you are willing to drive around).

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