<p>With the exception of Dartmouth and to a lesser extent Brown, it was combined. There are obviously many other great schools that are equally strong at the graduate level (UCSD, UT Austin, Wisconsin, etc.) or at the undergraduate level (WUStL, Emory, Georgetown, etc.), but relatively few schools are extremely strong, selective, and successful at both the undergraduate and graduate level.</p>
<p>I agree and don’t see why international prestige is discussed so much on CC.</p>
<p>ring of fire,
there are more than 1.5 million (more or less) international students in the US today, and probably more than 10 million alumni of US schools scattered all over the world holding very important positions in government or business empires. About a fourth of the students of HYPSM are international students. About 30%-35% of the student bodies of the top 15 business schools in the US are international students. So on and so forth. In short, the extent of prestige of the top US schools reach as far as the smallest or remotest country in the world. </p>
<p>IBClass06,
what do you think will happen if you will integrate the prestige of the professional education in your list? I think the prestige of the professional school greatly affects the prestige of the parent university as a whole.</p>
<p>RML, I don’t plan to ever settle in Asia, Africa or South America. Why do I care what these people think about what a Duke degree means? They aren’t the ones making hiring decisions in my case and surely the educated individuals, who would be the ones I would be interacting with, if I were to travel to these continents would be well aware of how prestigious Duke is.</p>
<p>The need among CCers to impress rural Chinese farmers and esoteric African tribes with their college of choice is amusing.</p>
<p>All the business or government leaders that are relevant internationally are well informed about the reputation of the top American universities. If they aren’t by chance, why value their opinion at all?</p>
<p>why do we care if you care?</p>
<p>
Duke’s medical school is ranked #6 for research (tied with UDub, Stanford and Yale this year) and #45 for primary care.</p>
<p>The top 3 medical schools have always been Harvard, JHU and WUSTL, followed by UCSF and Penn.</p>
<p>why do CCers care so much about the insignificant differences among schools that already house the top 99.9999999999% percentile of students?</p>
<p>are you trying to insinuate that there is a significant difference between UCSF’s med school and Duke’s med school? really? reallllllly?</p>
<p>“esoteric African tribes”</p>
<p>Classic. (Reminds me of <a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBmzqB7pkCA[/url]”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBmzqB7pkCA</a>)</p>
<p>I don’t think that’s proper usage of the word ‘esoteric’, but that’s okay. One of my friends always says ‘tangible’ instead of ‘feasible’, and I always idiotically mix up the words ‘accompany’ and ‘accommodate’.</p>
<p>ring<em>of</em>fire,</p>
<p>Whether or not you will work or live outside of the US someday does not remove the fact that US schools are becoming international as more and more international students are attracted to them, I think even more so than their own best universities, save for the UK and France. </p>
<p>This forum is international in scope as this is viewed by people all over the world. Thus you can’t control this site to be purely American when many members of this site aren’t even Americans. Are you an American? </p>
<p>And, please don’t tell me that no one on here would eventually settle outside of the US when they graduate. Statistics show that about 20% (more or less) of MBA grads, for example, eventually work abroad after their MBA. And, in many cases, the pay is even higher for those people.</p>
<p>
Oh, I don’t know about that. Sure, having a great medical school helps Johns Hopkins, which otherwise is just another top 20 university. On the other hand, most people aren’t really familiar with the comparative quality of law schools at, say, UNC and UCLA (or even know if they have law schools).</p>
<p>My list of universities does quite well in professional education. My universities consist of at least 2/3 of the top 15 schools in most professional fields. </p>
<p>Law: 11 (Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Berkeley, Chicago, Penn, Michigan, Duke, Northwestern, Cornell)</p>
<p>Medicine: 9 (Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Penn, Duke, Stanford, Yale, Columbia, Michigan, Chicago)</p>
<p>Business: 12 (Harvard, Stanford, Northwestern, Penn, MIT, Chicago, Berkeley, Dartmouth, Columbia, Yale, Duke, Michigan)</p>
<p>
Although it is perhaps true that international students are increasingly being attracted to less selective American schools, the number of international students at top universities has stayed relatively stagnant. Harvard has been 90% American at the undergraduate level for quite some time. </p>
<p>In any case, MBA students are largely an outlier. As I said earlier, most students (BA/BS, PhD, JD, MD, et al) are looking for jobs in the US. Domestic prestige is what’s really important.</p>
<p>Outside of HYPSM, Oxford, and Cambridge regional (east coast, west coast, midwest, southern, international) biases begin to creep in to the list and prestige is relative. After those 7 the other 8 are moot.</p>
<p>
Are those 7 even settled? I’ve heard arguments that Princeton and Stanford aren’t perceived as being quite as elite, and that MIT is only viewed as prestigious for the maths/sciences. I know that both claims are false but I disagree with the notion that these 7 are set in stone in terms of being the 7 most prestigious universities.</p>
<p>Interestingly, my list (aside from Michigan) corresponds fairly well to the much-despised Revealed Preferences survey.</p>
<p>1 Harvard<br>
2 Yale<br>
3 Stanford<br>
4 Cal Tech<br>
5 MIT<br>
6 Princeton<br>
7 Brown<br>
8 Columbia<br>
9 Amherst<br>
10 Dartmouth<br>
11 Wellesley<br>
12 Penn<br>
13 Notre Dame <– Not in my list. Religious boost?<br>
14 Swarthmore<br>
15 Cornell<br>
16 Georgetown <– Not in my list. Religious boost?<br>
17 Rice <– Not in my list. Can’t explain.
18 Williams<br>
19 Duke<br>
20 Virginia <– Not in my list. Good undergrad public.
21 Northwestern<br>
22 Pomona
23 Berkeley<br>
24 Georgia Tech <– Not in my list. Self-selective.
25 Middlebury<br>
26 Wesleyan<br>
27 U Chicago
28 Johns Hopkins</p>
<p>Urbandictionary Johns Hopkins and UChicago <— wow.</p>
<p>[Urban</a> Dictionary: University of Chicago](<a href=“http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=university+of+chicago]Urban”>Urban Dictionary: university of chicago) definition 4, #5 lol</p>
<p>[Urban</a> Dictionary: Johns Hopkins University](<a href=“http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=johns+hopkins+university]Urban”>Urban Dictionary: Johns Hopkins University) lol HIV/Bonobo monkeys.</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Stanford
Columbia
Upenn
Cornell
Brown
Dartmouth
MIT
Caltech
Duke
Chicago
georgetown
rice</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I think they are…sure some people will make claims about P, S, and M not belonging with the rest, but what other schools (if any) will those people put in their place? Whatever the answer is, that school certainly doesn’t enjoy as much prestige (domestically or internationally) as any of those three schools. And in any discussion of the top 15 prestigious schools in the world…those 7 will invariably make the cut with any reputable list. I think 1789 is relatively safe in saying that there is a huge dropoff after there in which schools one would consider to be part of that crew.</p>
<p>I realize that the number of affiliated Nobel laureates doesn’t necessarily indicate anything substantial about the faculty of a school, but I found this interesting (from Wikipedia), if only for the surprises on the list - NYU and Illinois. And anyway, a Nobel is rather prestigious, right?</p>
<p>U.S. schools ranked by number of affiliated Nobel laureates:</p>
<ol>
<li>Chicago</li>
<li>Columbia</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Berkeley</li>
<li>Stanford</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Yale</li>
<li>NYU</li>
<li>Princeton</li>
<li>Hopkins</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>Illinois</li>
<li>WUSTL</li>
<li>Penn</li>
</ol>
<p>{quote=Morsmordre]I think they are…sure some people will make claims about P, S, and M not belonging with the rest, but what other schools (if any) will those people put in their place? Whatever the answer is, that school certainly doesn’t enjoy as much prestige (domestically or internationally) as any of those three schools. And in any discussion of the top 15 prestigious schools in the world…those 7 will invariably make the cut with any reputable list. I think 1789 is relatively safe in saying that there is a huge dropoff after there in which schools one would consider to be part of that crew.
[/quote]
Princeton is not as prestigious as the other 6 schools in my opinion. It is the one exception to this rule when it comes to international prestige.</p>
<p>When it comes to domestic prestige, Princeton is probably tied with Yale as the second most prestigious school. However, based on my interactions with foreign nationals and international travels, Michigan, Duke, JHU and Berkeley are more prestigious than Princeton.</p>
<p>
I’ve heard quite a few people view Caltech as more prestigious than MIT. Perhaps not Penn as a whole but there’s a group of people that sees Wharton as the top school, period. Overall though you’re right; at most maybe 1-2 other schools are even in the top 7 discussion. I just feel that they aren’t as secure as most perceive them to me.</p>
<p>“Oh, I don’t know about that. Sure, having a great medical school helps Johns Hopkins, which otherwise is just another top 20 university. On the other hand, most people aren’t really familiar with the comparative quality of law schools at, say, UNC and UCLA (or even know if they have law schools).”</p>
<p>^^ and this is why I really value the opinions of VERY FEW of the people on this forum.
For one thing, Hopkins is not “just another top 20 university”. a “just another top 20 university” would be something like Notre Dame, with very very very few programs that are notable for being the top of the heap, and resources/name-recognition that far surpass its ability to produce world-class alumni and/or history-making students.</p>
<p>Hopkins is not one of those schools.
I don’t need to get into the specifics because, then again, blind-minds stay blind. However, I think it should be wise to understand that since its inception, Hopkins has been heralded as one of the forerunners of the American Research University system. Back before US News and stupid rankings, it was seen as comparable or often, even better than Princeton. It has never truly needed to mold itself in the image of US counterparts (like Duke, Stanford, UChicago, Cornell) because it was usually the leader and the one setting the standards.
It’s not another “emory” or “vanderbilt” as US News or whatever might like you to believe. In most graduate-level programs, a Hopkins degree is as valuable as the ivies, and other elite institutions. In professional schools, it chooses to focus its attention on Medicine, but is also working on a Business School that was just funded through a $100 Million Donation. It has the world’s most reputable school in Public Health–a school that is consistently more and more important as Global Health becomes a community-driven force, and a school that continues to out-research, out-resource, and out-shine comparable schools from harvard, yale, columbia, and more.</p>
<p>So no, IBClass06, Hopkins is not “just another top 20 university” with a medical school.
It easily outclasses Northwestern, Duke, and WashU in many arenas, despite what you say.
Maybe the “revealed preference” list is your basis for support, but I base my answers on a school’s actual academic reputation, abilities, and importance to the REAL WORLD. (not the sports world, or red-wine sipping world).</p>